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Newcomers DBPro Corner / Simple Problem

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Kiefer Greenspan
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Posted: 21st Apr 2007 23:33 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 19:46
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indi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 02:03
the blue indicates the 3d back drop has been activated.

hence the command,
should do the trick.

the rgb colours range from 0 - 255, try some different values.

Kiefer Greenspan
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 02:08 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 19:46
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indi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 02:16 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2007 02:17
if you place it in your main loop, the program would have to act on that command every loop.
Ask yourself, Do you need to change the colour every loop?
Ill post a mini sample in a second when the pc powers up.
and here it is


zenassem
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 02:41
If you don't need 3D just turn the backdrop off.

Place this at the top of your code afte setting your sync rate

indi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 02:50
zenassem, please dont confuse new users with incorrect information, especially with this example that uses sprites. the blue backdrop will appear again when the sprite is created.

Kiefer Greenspan
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 02:59 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 19:46
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indi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 03:06
In this cut down example the screen should appear red.
press escape to exit the demonstration.





I run 6.2
You should upgrade your package regardless.

If your not seeing these results, your installation might be playing up, I can assure you these examples work as they are intended.

Kiefer Greenspan
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 03:14 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 19:46
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Kiefer Greenspan
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 03:14 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 19:46
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Kiefer Greenspan
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 03:15 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 19:46
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zenassem
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 03:24
And indi, you can turn the backdrop off again after the sprites are created.

I'm a little taken back, these forums are here for everyone. Not just you, and not just mods.

I gave a suggestion after several other suggestions didn't seem to work. And my suggestion has worked for me. So until these forums say "Indi responses only". I am free to offer advice that may help.

So don't act as if my sugggestion is completely off the mark.
Kiefer Greenspan
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 03:26 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 19:47
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zenassem
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 03:34 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2007 04:06
Don't worry Greenspan I've known Indi for a long time. And I actually have a lot of repsect for him. It's just not right to tell someone else that I am giving people "incorrect" information. Which is basically insuating that I am wrong, that I am lieing, or that I just don't know what I am talking about.

The important part is that you are able to solve your problem


@Indi, as for me giving "incorrect" information:

From the help, or printed documentation...
[my own note]

Backdrop Off

This command will deactivate the 3D backdrop preventing it from being drawn to the screen. The backdrop is automatically activated the first time any 3D object [which includes sprite creation] is created or loaded in order to clear the background screen. If you do not wish the backdrop to automatically activate, use this command at the start of your program.

I have used it, and it works for me! If necessary I call it again after sprite creation. It sends the backdrop bye bye. I've done a lot of 2D only work in DBpro, and I can back it up. If you want I can offer you code sample to prove it.
indi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 03:42
Kiefer Greenspan

If the red example works then that suggests you havent applied the backdrop example components, which I cant see in your code.
Place them before the main loop as suggested before.

Here is an example for your collision problem.
Please tell me if the example works and the background is black.
use the arrow keys to move one of the sprites, press escape to exit the program.





zen, firstly you spelt sync wrong in your example within the remark.

In this first example the background is blue, even though I have turned the backdrop off.

As stated once again for you only zen, please do not confuse people with incorrect information regarding sprites and backdrop.
here is a working example of the problem at hand and how incorrect you are with your idea zen.



Please dont make it harder for everyone as well as moderators in supplying incorrect information thats clear you havent tested it.
Please backup your statements with a snippet so it can be evaluated.
As for getting your panties in a bunch, as mods its painful to see information thrown around without it being tested correctly.
If you make our job harder then your going to get the short stick.
Take it anyway you like mate, I asked you politely from the start, and now I can see what to expect from you in the future.
Your most welcome to add advice, but make sure you have tested it before hand please.

indi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 03:53
here is another example, describing the issue.

even though the backdrop has been deactivated, its switched on again when the sprite is created, hence you can see the 3d cube again.


zenassem
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 04:01 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2007 04:04
@Indi,
1. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for every spelling mistake you make. I think he would have figured it out. And it was in a remark statement, so I think you are really stretching,

So great job in finding that error. Obviously you have changed Indi.

2. I could have missed it, but I don't see where you had backdrop off before I posted.

3. My information is not incorrect. It's just that you don't seem to understand it.

4. I was making things easier, but you obviously don't like the idea that there are multiple ways to solve an issue. I guess it's only the Indi way.

5. Your snippet does not = that I am incorrect.

6. Now on to testing. Mine works. You gave him a couple of suggestions that didn't. So maybe you should take your own advice.


7. I have tested my idea many times over Indi. In fact the code is still in my tutorial on the 2D board. It's stickied at the top in case you have trouble locating it. My panties are not in a bunch. But there you go exposing your immaturity Indi. Really I would have hoped you would have grown up a little.

8. If making good suggestions, that are beyond your grasp makes your job harder, instead of bowing down to everything you say; well then Indi, I guess your job just got harder. Not sure what the short stick is Indi? But sorry if you don't like the sharing of ideas. Last time I checked I was allowed to post here.

9. You asked me politely not to participate in the forums of which I am a member. Sorry pal, can't do that. And if I have and idea or something that I know works, I have every right to share it. If you can't handle that, then do as you wish.

10. And yes, you can expect to have different angles and approaches from me in the future. Sorry if that goes against your policy. Now just so I'm clear... Is that your policy Indi. No one else can express an idea. Or is TGC policy? Enlighten me.

11. Again with the testing. I have tested it. Just like I assume you tested your first, second, third response.

Good day sir!
indi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 04:05
before you get out of shape any more zen, just add a simple snippet here with the problem at hand.
That will allow myself and anyone else who needs to use this post for advice with this issue.
Im happy to see if im incorrect, Im always open to suggestions.

zenassem
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 04:08 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2007 04:16
I am not out of shape, and I would like to ask you to politely not make any such remarks. I will post the code below. Give me a few minutes to dig it up.

Here it is.

Kiefer Greenspan
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 04:10 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 19:47
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indi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 04:14
Here is an example shell snippet you can modify as well to show me the result zen. Id like to see the result.

modify this to show me and others how it works.



Perhaps your using Classic which might be the confusion.
Classic Sprites are not 3d plains.
Pro sprites are 3d plains.
As stated by Kiefer Greenspan, hes using pro and not classic.
Perhaps that is the confusion?
To evaluate what your suggesting would require a working example zen.

Sorry by the way Kiefer Greenspan, you dont need this nonsense in your post, hopefully the information I have supplied to you will help with your problems. As you can see we have some sensitive types around here, who struggle with polite requests.

zenassem
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 04:18
I posted it Indi.

i asked for a few minutes

Here it is again
Kiefer Greenspan
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 04:23 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 19:47
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...
TDK
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 04:41
I know we're talking Pro here - not classic, but I always found it strange in classic that the backdrop was turned on automatically, but if you wanted to change the colour of it, you had to implicitly use the Backdrop On command before the Color Backdrop command worked.

Is that still the case in Pro?

TDK_Man

zenassem
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 04:51 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2007 04:56
I'll stay away from that one TDK. As I honestly don't know.

Nice chance for an experiment!

[Edit] I think that's what Indi did above
indi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 04:56 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2007 05:10
Kiefer at least your sorted. Good to hear it was an upgrade problem and not the examples ive provided, I know they worked as I sat here and wrote them.

zen

All you have done thats different bar the set sprite command is add a cls to the main loop.

Adding a cls to the main loop means your effectively using two syncs.
one clears the screen and one updates the sync, which effectively clears the screen and updates it.

While the effect does work to remove the backdrop issue I lost 200 fps in testing, hardly efficient.

However, I will concur the method removes the backdrop, yet 200 fps for the best part of 2 syncs is hardly effective, when every fps counts at the completion of a game.
It will also force you to update non sprite based images to the screen every loop.

If thats the only work around, thats whats required, I can already see how much of a fps drain it is.

I would not deploy that method, however i dont require a complete 2d environment for my projects within DBP.

your first statement was incorrect zen, then you flipped over to suggesting using a cls. thats why I commented on your first reply.

I would use a 3d plain for a background avoiding the cls method all together.

indi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 04:57
pro will automatically do a backdrop on with using the command color backdrop in 6.2 from testing this problem.

zenassem
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 05:42
Oh Indi. Nothing I will do will convinve you that your statements of telling another user I am incorrect, were innappropriate.

I jump through your hoops to modify your code, and now it's not a matter if it can be done, but rather how effecient it is. So now you change the rules. Regardless of the ease of implementing it.

You also refuse to take back the things you said.
And your incorrect assumptions of what product i am using.
You know Indi, it doesn't hurt to give a little. You could simply said that it worked.

In your test indi did you allow for the maximum sync rate
by setting sync rate to 0?

I'll run my own test, but to be honest I wasn't looking for the most efficient. I was looking at solving the problem. For efficiency I too wil confer on the use of plains.

When offering suggestion in quick snippets on the board I hardly see optimized code, but rather more important to convey the concept.

You also changed from your original snippet. To adding backdrop on and the changing the backdrop color. Should that take away from your what your theory.

I mainly cleared the screen because I generally don't find it necessary for my backgrounds to be maintained, as I update the screen every loop. So hence, the set sprite command.

The fact is, is that the 2 minute adjustment I made to the code works. I am not incorrect. Or a liar. Nor am i using the wrong program. Even if I speed it up it seems you'll find a way to knock it.

I haven't heard you comment at all on the documentation that is still in the current help file. So perhaps you can reccommend a change to that.

It's silly really. My only gripe was your insult. I never suggested YOU were wrong. But You insisted I was. I think as a MOD you need to hold yourself to a higher standard. In that I think you are failing.

Now do I really have to go on with calculating FPS. In a 2d App that is better suited taking adavantage of 3D acceleration.

Think about it man. How hard would it have been for you to just take back saying that I am incorrect?
indi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 06:22
Zen, I will try to make this as clear as possible for you, at the start you made a comment.

Quote: "
If you don't need 3D just turn the backdrop off.
Place this at the top of your code afte setting your sync rate
"


Clearly thats incorrect for a sprite problem.
Hes using sprites which are 3d in DBP. and I proved to you it didnt work with a clear example.
You were giving advice thats not related to the sprite problem or the problems at hand.
Sprites re activate the 3d backdrop in DBP as suggested once again if your having trouble reading your own content.

How does that help the problem, giving advice about a similar aspect but nothing to do with the guys problem? Are you sure your ok mate? sounds like you dont take criticism with a dose of reality.


Then you suggested this :
Quote: "you can turn the backdrop off again after the sprites are created. "


I showed you that method didnt work and I asked you politely not to give incorrect advice.
I even showed you as an example to be clear as possible.
There was no comment made about cls here.
There was no insults from me regarding you as a person, your information was incorrect.
Anyone would assume you use the backdrop off command by your words only.

They get that from your statement
"you can turn the backdrop off again after the sprites are created"
No mention of using cls to do that here.
One would expect backdrop off by your statement.



Then you decided to have a go at me, when I asked you politely from the get go it was incorrect.
Then finally after your prima donna twist, you flipped over and used a cls, after retorting your other methods worked. I did concur the method works if you read my posts, however it does have issues.
I laid out the issues to any user who finds this post for advice, clear as day.
I did not convolute the information or the methods used.


Then you rambled on more in your upset panty mode as If i was shaking your world.

Perhaps you need to calm down and look at it objectively, and realize that yes you did give bad advice at the start.

There is no point in replying to you, your issues are yours alone, and im some huge bad ogre who asked you at the get go not to add incorrect information. Who cares if you made a few errors with trying to help, it obviously rocks your world to be incorrect. You only do yourself an injustice not being clear at the start, and to all those who read it.

If you had said add a cls to your main loop at the start, we would not be having this drama with your ego. If you perceive that saying something is incorrect is some twisted attack on you, get a life kid.

As for knowing you, I hardly know you, Your not on my msn, I dont have your email, i dont even know your first name, what game you develop or anything. I only know you briefly from here.

Why is this similar to the other day when you suggested that gifs are not compressed and I showed you they were, you handled that fairly well, but tried to state your an oldbie and then rambled on more, clearly wrong again in that subject as well.

Perhaps you have issues with being told otherwise, I for one dont lose any sleep over it, except for the time it took to re-itterate my concerns regarding this matter,

zenassem
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 07:18 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2007 08:00
Indi, I'm really tired of this.

Fact is, I made a suggestion and you got insulting. Plain and simple. My solution works, and if I needed to explain it more in depth, fine. I thought you would be able to take that suggestion and build on it. Then I referenced to YOU that you could simply turn the backdrop off after sprite creation. I had anticipated that you were familiar enough with the language and methods to do so. in the future I'll be careful about not expecting you to understand that there are more ways to things beyond one single command.

I was suprised you didn't. But if it was the backdrop that was causing the such an issue, and it wasn't necessary, and your advice wasn't solving it, I thought I would be nice to mention a way I knew to get rid of it.

I even posted that I have respect for you. And I tried to cool things down. But you bystepped that, and then knock me for saying I know you, to try to stir the pot more. FYI By knowing you, I meant from times spent on the boards over the last few years. reading lots of posts and sharing ideas, having laughs, and generally as a nice person on the forum. Not that I'm calling you, IMing you, or carving turkey with you on the holidays.

I understand the sprites being 3D relation Indi. And yes if you read above, I stated that. My first post was a simple suggestion method that I assumed you knew about. And I meant if he had intentions for the backdrop in the future of his code.

It doesn't rock my world to be incorrect. It rocks my world when someone else thinks your incorrect, and then tells another member you are incorrect, and then tells you not to post in the forums. You don't own the forums Indi. And if that bothers you, well, sorry, this is a community... and perhaps you need create your own forums where only what you say matters.

And because I disagreed with your dismissing my idea, you threaten me with the short stick. Anyone who reads this Indi, it will be clear for them to see, that you have an issue with someone who isn't all about bowing down to you.

You could of easily ignored my suggestion, without throwing insults. But you chose to be ignorant. And dismiss it completely. If you would have asked for a demonstration of what I meant, I would have kindly posted the method I was referring to.

I'm sorry if that somehow insults your status. That other people have different methods, approaches, ideas Indi. I genereally like to learn different options when confronted with an issue.

To keep going on about "panty" jokes. It seems to be the way you like to portray yourself.

Read your point. I handled your correction to my .gif oversite well. You on the other hand could not handle my input on this. Your the one with the ego.

There were other ways in which we could have discussed my proposal, to a problem that looked like you and the poster seemed to be having trouble solving. I make one suggestion and you begin to flex your muscle. Why not ask off the beginning, instead of dismissing me, to elaborate. Perhaps you will some day aquire those skills.

Finally, I'm not a kid. So perhaps that's why your childish jabs at me just make me cringe. In the embarassment for you for using them. Honestly, I expected more from you.

I'm also seeing your edits to the code shell. Adding the cube, wasn't in there when I copied the snippet to give you my example. Some trickery is going on here.

So leave it at that. Your not going to tell me that I can't post helpful suggestions.
indi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 07:52
looking good mate.

zenassem
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 08:09 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2007 08:17
A Last example,

Since you changed your code shell and introduced the cube my the cls is no longer needed



haven't timed it though.

Ironically it's a bit slugish on my laptop. So putting differences aside, can you tell me what you get, and 2 why would it be slower that clearing the screen and sycning? Just because of the cube???
Kiefer Greenspan
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 12:07 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 19:48
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TDK
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2007 22:15
After a fresh install of Windows I've been putting off installing DBP again as I don't use it very often...

So, my comments are from memory of using DBPro and it can occasionally let me down - plus the fact that you may be using a more updated version than I was using.

However, I remember that in DBPro, Sync Rate 0 didn't make my programs go full throttle - like DBC did.

If I remember correctly, after a little experimentation, my programs gave a better frame rate without using Sync On - or was it using Sync On, but not Sync.

Oh, I'm not sure now. It looks like I'm going to have to install DBPro again and check it out...

TDK_Man

zenassem
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2007 04:04 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2007 04:07
Good point TDK. I'm not really sure myself. I definately brought some baggage from DBC with me over to DBP. And then tried to make things work.

I'd like to test out some things, but I lost my link to the more accurate FPS code I once had.

Can anyone tell me where to get it?

Because if memory serves me correctly (unless of course it was fixed) Screen FPS() can give wacky results in DBP, especially with regard to Sync, Fastsync, mulitple syncs in a loop, and/or using cls and a sync. I would also assume using text or print commands to display it, will result in frame rate reduction.

So again I would appreciate anyone pointing me towards a better FPS code, preferably with option to display at program exit.

@Indi,

After a relaxing day at the aquarium, I will confess, my panties might have been slightly bunched. I still have great respect for you, your knowledge, and the role you have taken in the community for a long time. Hopefully no-hard-feelings. And I'm sorry for my role in distracting from the main point of helping someone. I myself don't always like when someone chirps in, when I am in the process of helping someone. Regardless of the suggestion, it can throw off both the person offering advice, and the person asking.

My intention were honestly in good faith. But reading over the posts, I can see that I was thin skinned, and over-zealous in defending my ego. I'll try a bit harder to let things roll a little easier. And not be so trigger happy to defend a point. I lost my focus on what is truly important, and that is that we are all here because of our enjoyment in programming. So sorry, for lettting my personal emotions at the time, spill over to here and for any insult or sarcasm I sent your way. I will try to be a bit more humble.

Thanks,
zenassem
indi
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2007 04:22
your a good character zen, no hard feelings mate.
we all have ego and a passion, no harm, no foul.

Kiefer Greenspan
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2007 10:32 Edited at: 26th Jan 2008 19:48
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