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Geek Culture / Puppy Linux

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heartbone
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Posted: 1st May 2007 21:19 Edited at: 3rd May 2007 17:20
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I have been thinking about playing with a modern Linux distribution for a while.
However being on dialup and not wanting to spend money,
made this rather difficult.

Yesterday while reading a nice page,
I came across an interesting comment.
Quote: "If you want BETTER than windows:

www.apple.com - OS X - it is just more fun, no problems, hardware just works.

www.ubuntu.com - popular growing Linux, super easy to use Linux.

www.puppylinux.com - Go ahead and Keep Windows - Use Linux when you want to, just boot up a USB Memory Stick flash drive. Keep a whole computer on your keychain.

I like my AMD flash drive based linux laptop:
AVERATEC - cheap laptop 512MB RAM
PC Card 1GB Flash card - (swap file, this is optional).
SanDisk cruzer micro flash drive.
Puppy Linux 2.14

<img src=http://store.madtux.org/images/puppy-svg.jpg>
www.puppylinux.org

1. download the Puppy Linux Live CD .iso file.
2. Burn the .iso file to a CD-ROM
3. Reboot PC - set BIOS to boot from CD.
4. Boot from CD, go to Start, Setup, Puppy Universal Installer.
5. Follow on-screen directions to setup your very own System-on-a-stick USB Flash Drive computer!

Puppy Linux runs the whole OS in RAM, with the operating system and all standard applications in LESS THAN 90 MB!
(email, web, chat, graphics, calc, documents, music, video).

If I need to run a Windows only program, I just reboot without the USB stick - Windows XP is still there - untouched. (though Puppy Linux is about twice as fast as Windows XP.)

When you see what Linux developers CAN DO, and what Windows can not even get right given 4GB of RAM, well - you have to wonder why??"
Puppy Linux seemed like something I should investigate and I'm glad that I did.

Unlike the massive 700 MB Ubuntu Linux distribution, I can tolerate a hundred meg download on dialup.

I can try it out WITHOUT MAKING ANY CHANGES TO MY HARD DRIVES,
and save any configuration changes.
If I decide that like it I can run the same distribution from my hard drive.

So I downloaded the latest stable version
Puppy Linux 2.15CE Final

Bottom line it runs just as advertised and now I have a great new toy to learn.

With something new like this there will be rough edges, such as driver support.
For example I am learning IF I can make my HSF modem work in Puppy Linux without buying a new one.
I'll feel more confident when I can web surf, and print.
Then I'll download the (free) OpenOffice suite, the graphics, & programmer packages.

http://www.puppylinux.com
http://www.puppylinux.org
http://www.puppyos.com
Everyone Loves Puppy
2.15CE Release Details
recent isos

I'm unique, just like everybody else.

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heartbone
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Posted: 1st May 2007 21:20
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The default desktop.


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Roxas
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Posted: 1st May 2007 21:25 Edited at: 1st May 2007 21:26
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Can it run Dbpro and execute the games? If so.. Goodbye windows


[B] - LINKIN PARK - [/B]
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 1st May 2007 21:28
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I'm sure there's a way around it Roxas

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
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soapyfish
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Posted: 1st May 2007 21:31
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Quote: "If so.. Goodbye windows "


But isn't the whole point of puppy linux that you don't have to stop using your cuurent OS?

We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day. We like who we like, we hate who we hate but we're also easily swayed!
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heartbone
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Posted: 1st May 2007 21:34 Edited at: 1st May 2007 21:36
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My understanding is that most Windows programs can be run,
there are several emulators which allow that in Linux.

DBPro compilation?
I have a feeling that may be a bit tough, but I have high hopes.
I'd start with the DarkBASIC Classic compiler.

The point is that you can actually try without committing to change.
If one wants to leave Windows, that's understandable.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 1st May 2007 21:34
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I realise I'm quoting the article, but:

Quote: "www.apple.com - OS X - it is just more fun, no problems, hardware just works."

More fun, how? Hardware that just works, as in, dangling by a thread?

Really, this anti-Vista thing is really starting to get on my nerves.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
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GatorHex
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Posted: 1st May 2007 22:13
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I don't like puppy it's realy bad at detecting my hardware.

I like Knoppinx running from a CD boot

or Damn Small Linux running from a USB stick or sitting on windows in a virtual machine.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 1st May 2007 22:17
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The whole anti-OS thing is a pain, you only run an OS because you like it, neither Linux, Windows or MacOS are crap, each has their advantages and disadvantages.

Did The Buddha have a Zen micro?
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heartbone
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Posted: 1st May 2007 22:58
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Quote: "I don't like puppy it's realy bad at detecting my hardware.

I like Knoppinx running from a CD boot

or Damn Small Linux running from a USB stick or sitting on windows in a virtual machine."

GatorHex, try the latest build, more hardware is coming online all the time.
I've also heard good things about Knoppix and would have created a partition and installed that weeks ago if I had access to a CD.
Both OSes are well worth the money.

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MartinS
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Posted: 1st May 2007 23:37
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I've worked with puppy. It's snappy at most things(and that saying something considering my system specs!) The disadvantage though is that rather than using the standard *.kpm distribution archives, it uses it's own *.pet. Which means that of the handful of software available for Linux, a minuscule percent of that is puppy-ready. That's not saying you couldn't compile your own version of the software; it's just more of a hassle.

G2L

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hessiess
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 00:07
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i want to try a buld of linnux to see if i like it.

how do you burn a iso image? ive got sonic digatal midia plus v7. i cannot see a option to burn iso.

if this carnt, is there anything free that can?

learn blender, you will never regret it.
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GatorHex
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 00:28 Edited at: 2nd May 2007 00:29
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I use "CDBurnerXP Pro Free" go on give it a google

If you burn Knoppix it actualy boots and runs from the CD/DVD and you don't have to mess about with partitions or installs!

Damn Small Linux Virtual Machine (DSM VM) you just download and run on top of windows just like any other desktop .exe file.

Both are simple to use and don't require any risk to your harddrive.

Unlike the last time I tried to intall Fedora Core and it insisted on trying to wipe everything!

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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heartbone
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 04:54 Edited at: 3rd May 2007 00:28
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BurnCDCC™
This utility is used to burn an ISO file to a CD/DVD/BD disc.
Many new systems come with a limited CD/DVD software package which lacks the ability to burn .ISO files.

Version 2.00a Released 3/17/2006
68.7 KB (70,397 bytes)

ftp://terabyteunlimited.com/burncdcc.zip
-------------------
I actually used this today instead of NERO.
IT DOES ONLY 1 THING & WORKS GREAT!
BurnCDCC™ PARENT PAGE

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Dazzag
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 08:56
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Just about every drive I've bought in the last few years comes with Nero. It can burn ISOs. It's not actually that obvious to find the option for it, but it can do it.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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GatorHex
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 09:30
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My Dells came with Roxio and it too wants extra payment for burning ISOs

So i use CDBurnerXP Pro Free for the ISOs and don't bother with Roxio anymore as XP seems to let me drag and drop files to a CD-R/DVD-R anyway.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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FredP
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 09:38
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CDBurnerXP Pro Free is an excellent app.
As far as an OS I'll stick with what I have got.
I already have this pc juryrigged with duct tape and glue.

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hessiess
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 15:47
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when i try to boot it of the disk i burned it hets as far as 'loading kernal moduals' then the cd stops and nothing more happens. ive tryed reburning the cd and redownloding the iso incase it got corupted. it still dos the same thing

learn blender, you will never regret it.
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heartbone
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 16:20
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You do know that you have to press the enter key once or twice during the boot?
If the disc does not boot on your hardware,
either try it on a different system,
or try the previous version iso puppy-2.14-seamonkey-fulldrivers.iso 8576 KB

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mm0zct
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 16:20
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GatorHex:if you prepare an unformatted section of your hard disk fedora6 installs fine next to windows, grub even finds xp and lists it as "other os" at the boot loader.

personally i use ImgBurn in windows, it's a nice, minimalist, free iso burner.
i like damn small linux because it's only 50mb so fits on my 64mb usb pen drive with room for a couple of extra apps. running it in windows is quite neat too.

as for emulation in linux, wine will run most things, unfortunately dbp is not one of them, unless you fancy tweaking the wine source and recompiling it yourself to try and fix this.

AMD athlon 64 3000+, 1GB ddr400, 720GB total hdd, ati radeon X1900gt 256mb (pci-e) 17" tft(@1280x1024).
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heartbone
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 16:24
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Ahh yes the good old days of resolving driver issues.
After all of these years this is still rather intimidating.
HSF/HCF softmodem dotpup packages

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heartbone
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 16:27
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Quote: "as for emulation in linux, wine will run most things, unfortunately dbp is not one of them, unless you fancy tweaking the wine source and recompiling it yourself to try and fix this."

mm0zct, how about DBC does that work in wine?

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heartbone
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 22:56 Edited at: 2nd May 2007 22:57
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I installed 2.15CE to a flash drive,
set my computer to boot from USB,
and rebooted.

Voilá, it worked as advertised!
Impressively quick too.

Thinking that the contents of the USB stick was a snapshot of my new system,
I wanted to experiment and see what would happen if I tried to boot the same image onto a different computer.

I have a 4 year old 1.8 GHz Compaq Celeron laptop which I setup to boot from USB memory.

I hoped that it might eventually struggle to the Linux desktop after resolving the hardware differences,
but doubted very much if it actually would.

The thing was rather slow to load being USB 1.0 and all,
but to my surprise it booted to the desktop no problem.

This Puppy is seriously amazing.


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David R
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 23:50 Edited at: 2nd May 2007 23:54
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<ignore>


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GatorHex
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 00:30 Edited at: 3rd May 2007 00:34
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Here's a pic of Damn Small Linux running Firefox on DSL Virtual Machine sat on top of windows

If anyone uses it let me tell you the program menu is on the right mouse button! It took me a while to find



http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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heartbone
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 02:35
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Interesting.

I assume that you can also boot from the USB flash right into Damn Small Linux?

It seems so weird to emulate Linux in Windows but it's good that you can learn it that way.

Installing a Linux emulator into Windows is not as clean as not even modifying the hard drive, but it is a valid approach to run Linux without much fuss.

I'm so impressed with Puppy that I'll continue with it on the low end, and pick up Ubuntu and/or Knoppix after I finish grokking Puppy.

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hessiess
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 19:56
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still carnt get puppy to work, downloded ubuntu it took 5 howers but it works!

learn blender, you will never regret it.
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Raven
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 20:49 Edited at: 3rd May 2007 20:53
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I personally believe Linux has no place on the desktop, until it becomes easier for developer and users.

Right now it's UI systems (GTK, Gnome, ICE, etc.) feel like cheap and tacky Taiwan developed things. Sure it does the job, but not that well forcing people to fall-back to CLI more often than not.

What's more from the adverage user perspective, everything is just poorly designed. Not once have any of the coders even thought about asking a designer to help add that polish to the OS.
Sorry, but MacOSX has proven the *nix platform is good in the right hands.. Linux has proven that it'll never evolve to something useful until you have a team developing something with the specific intention of making something for users rather than making something useable.

Yes, everything in Linux does everything it says on the tin. Doesn't mean it makes it a good product.
It's like a computer game that might have physics, shaders and all that jazz.. only the control system is unresponsive and too precise, the animations jump instantly between beautiful mocap, all of the shaders come from the nvidia library consisting of Bloom, Depth of Field and Normal Mapping and the art team themselves are using their tools for what appears to be the first time in their lives.

Technically something can be amazing, but without being properly designed that doesn't mean jack. This is a problem TGC seriously suffer from as well, sure you'll get a following; but you want that larger market then you have to tackle problems with design and development solutions not just a solution that works.

[edit]
Almost forgot, Vista Ultimate comes with Virtual PC built-in.
Meaning you can run Unix/Linux programs natively in it.. so erm, as far as that goes why bother with Linux which with WinE can only run a small selection of Windows applications; when if there's anything Linux only you're missing out on Vista Ultimate can run it no problem?

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hessiess
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 23:15
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vista has aloght of driver shortiges, it uses to mutch hd space and ram, it works AGENST insted of FOR the user, its is full of usless and time wasting eyecandy. i will never by vista, unless these problems are resolved.

linux is open scorce, YOU DONT LIKE IT, THEN CHANGE IT. i have just instaled ubuntu becose i think that it looks aloght nicer than xp.

i doubt that i will ever be able to dump windows permently becose basicly all programs are for windows, i fnd this verry anoying. open scorce is better than closed scorce softwere.

learn blender, you will never regret it.
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heartbone
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Posted: 8th May 2007 15:29
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Over the weekend I tried my little USB boot drive on three other computers and it booted on all three no problem.
This thing is so sweet.
If your hard drive dies you can still use your computer since the hard drive is unused,
unless you want to mount it so you can access your data on any drive (mp3s and movies) anytime.

On my dialup I've downloaded the web package for the Firefox 2.0 browser and the Open Office 2.04 distribution.
They installed no problem.
That was another well worth it 185 MB over dialup.

Two downsides.
1) is not every printer is covered (my HP712C JeskJet isn't ) but about a hundred are including many HP 5XX, 6XX, 8XX, and 9XX series, but not a single 7XX? WTF?
2) Dialup modem support is atrocious. I could not get a single dialup modem working and do not have the inclination to learn that technology.

However broadband (on DSL) is another story.
On a new HP laptop Puppy detected the network and installed all drivers in about five clicks.
I took the default selection each time.
In about a minute from the start of the network configuration wizard the system was on the internet and I was browsing forums using Firefox and Seamonkey.

Here's the link to WINE - WINdows Emulator for Puppy.
I've just downloaded it, and will report later.
Of course my hope is that I can run DarkBASIC executables.

So I had my friend start a download Ubuntu Linux (697 MB - 5 hours on her DSL) and I hope to get a copy next week.
Because DELL has decided on that Linux version, I feel that it has attained critical mass and it will be around for a while, so I'm going to learn it as well as the amazing Puppy.

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heartbone
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Posted: 8th May 2007 15:38
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Quote: "Almost forgot, Vista Ultimate comes with Virtual PC built-in.
Meaning you can run Unix/Linux programs natively in it.. so erm, as far as that goes why bother with Linux which with WinE can only run a small selection of Windows applications; when if there's anything Linux only you're missing out on Vista Ultimate can run it no problem?"


Maybe the fact that effectively using Vista would cost me hundreds of dollars (spread around) that I don't need or want to spend, on stuff that I really don't need?

Does that make ANY sense to you Raven?

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hessiess
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Posted: 8th May 2007 19:15
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im lerning linux so i never haft to get vista, why buy windows wen there are tuns of free os's witch are the same or better than windows. the more people using them, the more sport thay will have

learn blender, you will never regret it.
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heartbone
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Posted: 9th Jul 2007 18:26
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I am having a slow time getting WINE support on this.
I can run small windows based WINDOWS games at this point,
but any full screen apps blow the X window manager up.

I have stopped actively looking at this while I finish SupraMan and perhaps another compo game.

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greenlig
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Posted: 10th Jul 2007 04:00
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@ Raven - I don't find any of the stuff you have mentioned true at all. I don't know much at all about the CLI in Linux, and I get by just fine. I use Ubuntu Studio, which hasn't done anything untoward in 3 months of usage everyday as a work machine. Three of us in an office using Linux, and not having any problems whatsoever.

The interface in Ubuntu is fine IMHO, and runs perfectly. Infact, with beryl installed, the interface is unbelievably good.

I guess in the end it comes down to user preference.

Quote: "Linux has proven that it'll never evolve to something useful until you have a team developing something with the specific intention of making something for users rather than making something useable."


Anyone for horse sh*t?

Blender3D - GIMP - WINXP - DBPro
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indi
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Posted: 10th Jul 2007 04:05
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I run OSX which is a proven unix bsd variant for pure multimedia and business.
I get paid to fix and repair a lot more windows machines then linux or unix machines.
In fact 1 OSX machine so far.

I have redhat (fedora), machten, ubuntu, mklinux and debian on different pcs and macs as well.

Linux is a great operating system for developers and tinker gnomes

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Inspire
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Posted: 10th Jul 2007 06:49
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Quote: "More fun, how? Hardware that just works, as in, dangling by a thread?

Really, this anti-Vista thing is really starting to get on my nerves."


The interface is better, pretty much no viruses, all sorts of stuff.

And Mac makes it so easy to do anything!

Also, no registry.

I like Linux too. I had Fedora Core 5 on my PC for a while, and my laptop is running Ubuntu.

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indi
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Posted: 10th Jul 2007 09:33
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preferences and application support would be the closest thing but yeah it doesnt really have one.

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Sly D
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Posted: 10th Jul 2007 14:03
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Yeah, I really like the fact it's so anti-Vista that it has Vista style icons. Look at the "Trash" and folder icons...

Relax, I understand j00!
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GatorHex
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Posted: 10th Jul 2007 14:59 Edited at: 10th Jul 2007 15:04
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Quote: ""Linux has proven that it'll never evolve to something useful until you have a team developing something with the specific intention of making something for users rather than making something useable.""


Hmm, thats why it's the market leader for web servers with over 2/3 using Linux. I don't think my Internet lecturer was happy when I shot down his claim that Visual Studio was best for web development with that one

Ubuntu is a great step in the right direction for getting it more acceptable on the desktop but it is a chicken and egg situation I only use MS because there's not DBP for linux maybe one day they will make a Dark Java Pro

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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David R
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Posted: 10th Jul 2007 17:49
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I would really like to use a Linux variant of some form for development.. I mean, the only reason I run Windows is because it's the "lowest common denominator" any app really needs to target.

The problem I have, is that most Linux distros I have tried seem to disagree with my hardware (specifically my USB root hub, which tends to make most kernel versions so far freeze on boot unless I unplug every device) as well as the fact that most Linux distros I have tried are either

- Too lengthy to set up and customize ready for development
- Easy to use, but lack the ability to do some serious development tinkering.

I'm determined to go Linux soon though - that way I can compile apps against GCC and the mingw-gcc both on Linux, and get a linux binary and Windows binary without changing machine. The hurdle is porting my computer "lifestyle" from one OS to the other...


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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Jeku
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Posted: 10th Jul 2007 18:49
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Quote: "Yeah, I really like the fact it's so anti-Vista that it has Vista style icons. Look at the "Trash" and folder icons...
"


And that would be one GUI, not Linux itself. I hate when people refer to Linux as Gnome or whatever--- those are GUIs, people.

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xplosys
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Posted: 10th Jul 2007 19:10
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I haven't played around with Linux since Redhat 7 or 8. I've always like the concept of open source and the price, of course. My problem has always been the command line operations needed to install simple programs. Just installing and getting Apache to run was like pulling teeth, and it was made for Linux. I ended up going to a WAMPP platform for hosting.

I know Linux has come a long way in the last few years, so can someone tell me if there is now an installer built into the system that is anything like Windows? (click the install exe... follow the prompts)

Thanks.

I loaded up the Puppy on CD. Went straight up to the desktop with no issues, and I was on line in two minutes. A little confusing compared to XP, but much easier than Vista. The response is great and the default load is feature/program rich compared to other basic O/S's.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

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heartbone
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Posted: 11th Jul 2007 02:37 Edited at: 11th Jul 2007 02:40
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Quote: "I know Linux has come a long way in the last few years, so can someone tell me if there is now an installer built into the system that is anything like Windows? (click the install exe... follow the prompts) "


Yes xplosys, check out the dotpups.
In Puppy they have the same function as Windows installers.

Quote: "I loaded up the Puppy on CD. Went straight up to the desktop with no issues, and I was on line in two minutes. A little confusing compared to XP, but much easier than Vista. The response is great and the default load is feature/program rich compared to other basic O/S's."


Yes they've done a remarkable job, simply amazing.
I think that by this time next year I'll be distributing programs that I'll have developed in Linux.
We'll see.

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
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Sly D
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Posted: 11th Jul 2007 02:47
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Jeku, yes I know what KDE,Gnome or Motif are, and that that is just the GUI that looks like Vista, but still, most people associate the two very closely and well it runs on top of Linux. And only if you aren't some kind of a command line pervert you are going to use one GUI or another. I just hope that the OSS community will have to offer some better alternative to blatantly copying Vista's style.

Relax, I understand j00!
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AaronG
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Posted: 11th Jul 2007 06:19
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Yeah. I have Ubuntu, XP, and Vista all on one pc. I triple booted.
Ubuntu is honestly great. With the Wine emulator for Windows Software and Games, I can do most anything. Even run FPS Creator! Ubuntu recently recieved another update (called Fiesty Fawn I believe) which has Beryl. Beryl, is a tool that runs in the background. It acts kinda like the Windows Logo+Tab thing in vista,the window changer. Only, I like ubuntu's better because it's a cube, and you can click and rotate the cube with all of your windows "Mapped" to each side. Pretty sexy.

It also let's you stretch pages, and a buncha other stuff!



Looks just like Vista Aero's theme. But much more fun

-AaronG

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hessiess
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Posted: 11th Jul 2007 19:14
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^

just looks like unsessoesrry bloat to me

if you have hardware compatabilaty problems, do a bit of google sertching and get compatible hardware. otherwise you could be trying to get it to work forever.

ive still got a linux- wireless net problem. new hardware not posable, ahhhhhhhh!

learn blender, you will never regret it.

http://vector4.co.uk/SDbanner.jpg
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