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@Benjamin: I know its in other OS's, that doesn't stop it from being annoying

@Benjamin: Heh, That reminds me when some big linux user (Who says he uses linux all the time at least), complained about the admin system. I think someone forgot to tell him that is basically the feature Vista Copied from linux=P

I hate to say it kids, but my 10 year old media and software still runs perfectly on my latest apple machine. My ten year old apple machines still boot up and can still be used for multimedia development generating money.

The older Operating System still installs and boots and the software still runs to this day.
The older OS even runs emulated inside the newer OS if I deem so.

Microsoft are letting you down by not making things backwards compatible for those who liked a previous product.

Makes you wonder.

All operating systems will chew a hard drive if it requires excessive hard drive virtual swap action.

All MS Os's are suffering terribly from exploits, hacks trojans, security issues virii malware etc.. at this point in time, Its been like that ever since they rolled out windows 3.1.

I can swap freely any part I want with OSX, there is no hardware control aspect.
Thats great for upgrading and testing. That "USED" to be the case for Winboxes.

OSX runs like a charm on an old 400mhz lombard laptop.
Sorry that wont be happening with Vista.

You should harvest the older comps for linux days or new roles like mini servers / media centres. etc.

Yes MS's new product looks like a school kid copying note for note from the kid who knows next to him in class. Its a shame however thats not how it works under the hood.
You pay for an operating system thats full of virii, then you deserve it

Any video card I deem to use still runs the OS's features as well as games in Opengl.
Dx10 killing off older cards and system is a pure money grab.

Now ok heartbone is a little passionate and sometimes might miss the mark, but hes letting you know, that things in the MS camp are changing dramatically, and not for the best,

Youve lost the ability to swap parts anytime you want.

Your being railroaded into a DX 10 card and pay for a whole new OS to keep playing as well as spending more on hardware.

What happened to the coders writing conditional loops for slower systems that cant run a specific feature.

Why do you tolerate a system with as many virii and security risks, yet also pay handsomely for it.

If it was the best OS around shouldnt it be free of these aspects.?

@indi:



Just replaced my mobo and gfx card no issue.




DX 10 cards cost down in the $80 range now. (New egg and Tiger Direct)



I have never had more than 1 virus, and getting the free nod32 destroyed it.



So has the unix system, including mac. These are just more publicized do to the market share.




My '95 machine runs fine, and the only software that doesnt work that I had installed on it are DX applications (for obvious reasons)



The only products I know not to work are over 5 years old, just keep the software on the other machine if you like it.



Errr still is, the control aspect it actually really dynamic and loose.



*click* disable Aero *click* Disable the basic theme. Done! Runs really smooth on a 1.2ghz machine, sorry dont know about 400mhz, as that is pretty much extremely old and wouldnt use that anyways.



heh actually view the architecture of it? The redesign is much needed and speed increases without shader model 4.0 on the new dx10 model are still pretty great. The new vista Driver System is extremely improved, and DX10 takes advantage of it.



Well it would be writing the entire application all over again. The changes are extreme, check out the new DX SDK, a lot of cool info on this stuff.

some of your comments are obviously incorrect but im not here to educate your ignorance.

Such as? Would you please correct them? If you dont believe I have vista here you go:
http://programmer-scripts.com/h.jpg


If you are talking about unix; Then yes you are wrong. The unix system has had several public vulnerabilities, most have been corrected, just like the Windows vulnerabilities are.

Any more proof needed? The mobo and gfx card perhaps?

You really like using that one to demean those who you're arguing with, don't you? If you could write better grammar than my eleven year old brother, I'd probably let you have it, but I'm afraid I can't. And don't do the whole "offensive" crud again, because the only reason you have said this line is to belittle everyone in the thread besides you.

Congratulations for being a jerk.



I seriously hope you're kidding, right? If you actually knew anything about "how it worked under the hood", you would realise that this comment is utterly ridiculous: all OS'es are affected by virri, heck, there are even viruses for Linux.

If you pay for a Mac, which is essentially just a fashion object, then you deserve the inability to play most mainstream games.



How many times does this have to be said so it can sink in? This is mainly due to the fact that Windows has a thing known as "market share" which Mac's lack. If Mac and Windows market shares magically swapped, I'm certain it would be the exact opposite situation.



You're telling me you can run OSX's GL related stuff via, say, a 3dfx Voodoo 1? Because quite clearly, you cannot run Aero, or OSX/GL via every card, so "Any video card I deem to use" could just include the latest and greatest GPU's for all I know, which makes your statement rather shoddy.



Why do you? Why does anyone? Regardless of OS, if you do anything mildly useful on your machine, you're going to be exposed to some form of risk. Once again, this is just mindless crud, and is completely irrelevant to Vista. Your entire post just sounds like sour grapes because OSX's features are no longer 'unique' to Macs, so there's no actual point in using a Mac what-so ever. Oh well

"pay handsomely for it"
Yeah, 70 quid. That really broke the bank.


Who said it was the best?


No I haven't. I can swap any part I want at a any time. Granted I'll have to reactivate if it's a major change, but connecting to the internet isn't exactly the hardest chore in the world, is it?

Although I'd agree Mac is a stabler, more backwards compatible and less of a performance hog than XP and Vista, but they both still do their job well, although Vista is having problems with certain systems...Give it time I'm sure they'll be fixed...It would be bad business otherwise.

poor david earnt himself a slap for getting personal.

vista just looks terable, carnt say anything else about it

How so?

Steve J: If you don't mind, could you replace that image with just a link to it? I'm getting tired of having to hit toggle every time I view this thread. Edit: thanks.

I really dislike the reorganization in the new OS and the new Office. Stuff that has been in the same place for years has just been mixed up and it's impossible to find stuff quickly. I clicked what I thought would turn off the PC, and it only put it into standby. Instead, I have to click some arrow to the side to turn it off properly. Office is just dumb; whereas there used to be a variety of menus along the top with everything in places that made sense, now it is packed with "ribbons" and tiny icons. And why the big flashing office logo instead of the file menu? All these changes are totally unnecessary and just create the need to adjust to a new system. I tried to run some games off my USB memory stick (in swf) and it wouldn't let me! Aparrently the active X control may be dangerous! No it's not!

I hate to get involved but by not really having a counter-argument to their points, IMO it makes your original argument void.

That one gave me a frown too...Okay he shouldn't have called you a jerk, but I could see some justification in it as you were being unecessarily patronising...I'm not here to pick a fight, but this one made me frown.

Indi, you need to be temporary banned from modship, this is insane. You got far more personal to us than he did to you.

Ben how ignorant of you; didn't you know that disagreeing with Indi is a highly punishable crime. Thank you for slapping me Indi, you have taught me a valuable lesson: don't disagree with you

Indi evidently likes to think he is frequently talking to "kids", even when he isn't...

I'm running it on 256MB right now, so realistically the 512MB minimum spec is probably to make sure that people get the best performance. It is possible to use less than that as well, provided you change some settings. Graphically, the system runs quick.. the issue is the backend code. I wouldn't mind knowing what the heck is causing performance bottlenecks with Memory Access, both storage and system.



I've not yet found any applications, apart from older DirectX games that have issues starting in Vista. Some that use OpenGL have performance issues, but it seems fairly selective.
So far I've been able without the use of 3rd party emulation, run programs from DOS, Windows 9x, Windows NT 5.x and Unix without issues. This is far better than previous Windows "back compatibility" and in-fact provides access to a library of software from Microsoft or Unix platforms for the past 25 years.



This looks like he's asking a question, not giving an opinion:S (Other than the implied, 'In a perfect world, I would choose linux over windows') I suspect, now I'm not speaking for Raven of course, that Raven chose windows over (or uses windows with) linux due to program compatibility reasons...[/quote]

Pretty much hits the nail on the head.
I choose Windows over Linux because of work requirements, and over MacOSX because of price vs performance vs compatibility.

MacOSX (even x86 edition) still doesn't fully support all graphics hardware, which is an extremely big deal for me.



Unless you're doing something that requires the excess memory, the system will generally sit around 75% as the other 25% is Shared between System and Graphics. SuperFetch also kicks in, only when you hibernate the system; otherwise it stores the program cache in a special virtual memory space.



I've found Vista will run on 256MB Physical just fine, to get the same performance from XP you need atleast 512MB Physical.



Make a global administrator account, then change the one you use most of the time to a standard user. You'll find you only get asked for administrator privilages when you want to change something globally. (i.e. install something for everyone, or try to access the hard disk outside of your user area) You can also set permissions so that given users can access anything they choose within reason. So if you set the privilages to allow C: Drive full access, then unless it's someone elses user area, or windows restricted areas. This will again stop pop-ups.

The best part of this security system is while adds some annoying aspects.. anything that happens on the system either you have personally done, or will be asked if it can happen.
Makes the system extremely secure, as even if someone got one of the admin password&usernames; they would have to physically be at that terminal to accept the changes.. unless the external terminal has been registered (serialized) as an external admin. Something that can only be done from that terminal.



I get myself a new graphics card each new generation. Right now I have waited for the DirectX10 generation because I want to see what ATI come up with; and because if I get an 8-Series then I'll have to also still use an X1K-Series for work means.

To me Dx10 is a nice bonus with the new card(s), as the performance is greatly improved over Dx9. However, I get new cards because it is important for me to keep with the best hardware I can. This makes 3D work much quicker each time I upgrade, so shorter rendering times, or more polygons-per-screen allowing me to create larger models or have multiple screens to work on at once.

Sure game performance is nice, but given each generation of card is now taking the trend of doubling performance over it's predecessor.. it's very difficult to just ignore.

As far as moving to Vista goes, the whole thing of keeping with old technology has always baffled me. Sure if you were to buy an old car then you'd get that nostalgic feel with it, but doesn't even compare to the comfort of this years model with all of the bells and whistles. Technology improves for a reason, and those who dislike something based on looks or fear of change are just screwing themselves over.

sorry, off topic

new cars, like new evrrything are made to fall apart within 10 years, and thay look absolutly discusting.

You decided to make it personal David R, grow up seriously.

Like everything, it depends on the brand.
I can guarentee you if you bought a Honda, Porsche or Toyota you will still be able to use that car without any problems in 10, or 20years time.

In-fact there are a number of companies that pride themselves on their workmanship, and the fact that they don't have merchandise that break down on you right after getting it home.

This is the same in the computer world too. You pay your money, and purchase a reliable brand; then you're going to end up with something you can use for years to come.. far beyond the life cycle of the actual product.

Quite a while ago I installed vista (just using the 30 day trial) on an old hard drive (120gb maxtor 2mb cache) and my comp sounded like a low flying aircraft until I stopped the indexing service before it crashed and burned.

Anyways, I actually bought vista around the same time as DavidR and installed it on one of my 2x 250gb western digitals (which have 16mb cache) and the hdd grinding isn't happening now, everything is sound (pun intended)

Vista is just getting rid of old legacy hardware support whilst taking advantage of newer hardware. You can't have vista being backward compatible for *everything* within the last 10-20 years without causing unneccesary stability issues where dos was the underlying o/s with windows ontop

Although saying that vista does actually support my now aging abit nf7-s v2.0 mainboard (the now legendary athlon xp mobo). I did max out pretty much everything else though on my 32 bit system (2gb ram, 512mb raddy x1950pro, 2x 250gb wdc 16mb cache hdd's, 600w tagan psu) and vista runs very nice indeed.

Running 3dmark06 on both xp pro and vista there was only a few hundred points difference in the score and games in general played mostly fine with the odd exception (test drive unlimited playing at 5fps). The frame rates are in general slightly lower, I'm talking maybe a few fps tops so not really that noticeable but for the time being I am dual booting with xp just incase something isn't compatible.

Now the DRM issue.. There isn't one (well except a somewhat ironic one). I've tested a number of 'ripped' hd-dvd and bluray films (ok I maybe shouldn't have) and they play fine and at their full resolution using no less than wmp11 itself even though I prefer other media players.

I only tried the 'ripped' films because I was concerned about what heartbone said about drm so I thought I'd check it out before I go off on some rant.