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Newcomers DBPro Corner / Considering New Game Engine

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jrthom1
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Posted: 7th May 2007 04:25
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Howdy all,

I have a few questions about the limits of DarkBasic Professional that I would like answered before a decision is made to purchase.

1. User Interfaces. I am working on designing my own MMORPG and I need a User Interface capable of keeping the information of the game I am working on. Specifically, I the UI needs to have an Inventory Screen, Chat Box, Compass, and other items needed for an MMORPG. If anyone plays Everquest, World of WarCraft, or use (or have used) Realm Crafter, you know what I am in need of. If there is an example of this, can someone please post it because I did not find one in the forums.

2. Character Advancement, Scripting, Items in game. What are the limits of DarkBasic Pro with respects to the creation of items, GMs, Player Characters and Non Player Characters. In the game I am working on, there are going to be magic spell casters. How is this handled in DarkBasic Pro?

3. Network Capability. In an MMORPG, the game is played online by many people. What are the limits of the networking capabilities of DarkBasic Pro that are suitable for the stability of an MMORPG.

If there are any other questions, I will post them.

Please answer these questions as best as you can and I thank you for your assistance.

James
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Code Dragon
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Posted: 7th May 2007 04:42
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Here we go again.

"Once there was a polygon mesh who was very sad because he was only Gouraud shaded."
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 7th May 2007 05:23 Edited at: 7th May 2007 05:25
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Code Dragon beat me to it. I'll resist the urge to say anything about it. Instead I'll just tell you anything is possible in DBP, it's as much as a programming language as Java and C++.

EDIT: I will give you one thing, and that's that you at least said what you were going to do in a better manner than most newcomers which is usually along the lines of "PLZZZZZZZ h3lppp wit myy uber l33t MMORPG. hwo doo i mak3 it?" .


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zenassem
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Posted: 7th May 2007 06:55 Edited at: 7th May 2007 06:59
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I'd suggest DBpro for many different game types. But the one genre that I might not recommend it for is MMORPG. At least not for networking components. Perhaps maybe with some plug-ins and such.

The problem also is not so much with DBpro, but the idea of creating an MMORPG in the first place. That's a huge undertaking regardless of the language. But everyone seems to think they'd love to create one.

DBpro is a procedural language. Not an obect oriented one. So code for an MMORPG will get messy real fast. If you are going to code an MMORPG you more than likely have programming skills in other languages. Why not give the Dark GDK a look. At least this way you are using C++/.net and getting the power of DBpro.

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TDK
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Posted: 7th May 2007 22:06
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Quote: "1. User Interfaces"


As already mentioned, DB (Pro and Classic) is an open-ended language. It's not a drag 'n drop or 'gamemaker' style of program.

So, what the user sees on the screen in your programs is entirely down to what you want them to see. You design the user interface/hud or whatever how you want it to be.

Quote: "2. How is this handled in DarkBasic Pro?"


Ditto! You write the handlers, scripts or whatever yourself - just as you would have to in C++ or any other language. The advantage DB has over most other languages is when it comes to DirectX (3D) - everything is made so much easier.

Quote: "3. Network Capability."


DB isn't too hot natively, but there are plug-ins which fill the gap. However, this aspect - or rather what goes on 'server-side' with an MMORPG is often neglected by a would-be author.

I have to assume that you've looked into hosting (Windows not Linux if you are writing a Windows-based server in DB), bandwidth, connectivity issues and above all the cost right?

TDK_Man

* TDK's Game Programming Forums - Open To All - DB & Team Request Boards *

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Person99
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Posted: 8th May 2007 02:28 Edited at: 8th May 2007 02:30
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Quote: "1. User Interfaces. I am working on designing my own MMORPG and I need a User Interface capable of keeping the information of the game I am working on. Specifically, I the UI needs to have an Inventory Screen, Chat Box, Compass, and other items needed for an MMORPG. If anyone plays Everquest, World of WarCraft, or use (or have used) Realm Crafter, you know what I am in need of. If there is an example of this, can someone please post it because I did not find one in the forums."


This is possible in DBpro, but you will have to do some learning first. Take note that DBpro is NOT a 3d drag-and-drop gamemaker, it is a programming language.
However, you could easily do a game engine yourself if you want the 3d drag-and-drop stuff.

Quote: "

2. Character Advancement, Scripting, Items in game. What are the limits of DarkBasic Pro with respects to the creation of items, GMs, Player Characters and Non Player Characters. In the game I am working on, there are going to be magic spell casters. How is this handled in DarkBasic Pro?"


There are no limits of DarkBasic Professional, as it is a programming language. You could make a computer virus if you wanted. The only limits are what you are willing to do, and how much work you are willing to put into it.

Quote: "
3. Network Capability. In an MMORPG, the game is played online by many people. What are the limits of the networking capabilities of DarkBasic Pro that are suitable for the stability of an MMORPG.
"


There are no network limits. But I would not recommend you just start off trying to make an MMORPG, unless you want to go bald by you pulling your hair out. You will have to learn.

The Person99 awards go to: 1. Jack the Ripper for hardest crime scenes. 2. Peter Petrelli for most powers. 3. Superman for longest flight. 4. "The Doctor" for best time travel machine.
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TDK
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Posted: 8th May 2007 02:47
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Person99:

Did you see my post - you've basically said what I said - almost word for word!

TDK_Man

* TDK's Game Programming Forums - Open To All - DB & Team Request Boards *

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Person99
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Posted: 8th May 2007 02:48 Edited at: 8th May 2007 02:50
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Oh, sorry! I had to go somewhere, and left my computer sitting for a day, and came back, realized I didn't post, and clicked the post button. Didn't see all of the posts, because I didn't refresh.

About the drag-n-drop thing... It really looked like he thought DBPro was a drag-n-drop gamemaker. Apparently you saw the same thing.

Most drag-n-drop gamemakers have absolutely no features whatsoever, or they cost three fortunes, a million dollars, and your favorite pet.

The Person99 awards go to: 1. Jack the Ripper for hardest crime scenes. 2. Peter Petrelli for most powers. 3. Superman for longest flight. 4. "The Doctor" for best time travel machine.
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MikeB
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Posted: 8th May 2007 18:54
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Quote: "Most drag-n-drop gamemakers have absolutely no features whatsoever, or they cost three fortunes, a million dollars, and your favorite pet."


Have you not used gamemaker?? (http://www.gamemaker.nl)

It doesn't make 3d games with Drag and drop.... but for 2d it "owns"

I wander if the topic starter has seen the apollo banner:

The birth and death place of every MMORPG dream

Welcome to our forums.




E.D.

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aluseus GOD
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Posted: 9th May 2007 00:34
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He seems to think of it the way I first thought of it. Except I thought it was drag and drop combined with coding.

If your a starter to this DO NOT START WITH AN MMORPG!

I will Learn to rule 2d. Someday...
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Fuzzzy Piggy
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Posted: 9th May 2007 23:13
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He he! I've been reading these forums for some time now and I just love these MMO posts.

"I am writing a WoW game, is this toy language able to cut it or what? I know all about C++ and Java, I have done a years programming at Uni you know!"

I remember I picked up DB Pro and for my first game I wrote a Noughts'n'Crosses thingy, I think it took me well over a week on and off just to write something just was just about playable!! I first played with basic on my Dragon 32, so that show's my age!



Common-Sense has been removed from service, due to lack of interest. Thank you for your time.
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TDK
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Posted: 9th May 2007 23:24
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Quote: "toy language"


Ooh... that's fightin' talk...

Put on your tin hats everyone!

TDK_Man

* TDK's Game Programming Forums - Open To All - DB & Team Request Boards *

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SkyCube
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Posted: 10th May 2007 00:10
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jrthom1,

With DBPro, it IS possible to write multiplayer games, and I've no doubt that MMORPGs can be written in DBPro as well. Like someone else suggested, it is best to start with something simpler. Unfortunately, some of the other posters said it in a way that you may find offensive. It is an unfortunate thing about this community. Some of the more seasoned users often make fun of newcomers, calling them dumb or ignorant. I, too, have been a victim of this practice, and I have no doubt that I will be ridiculed as well for this post.

This community is supposed to be here to help people, not to insult or degrade others. And it is unfortunate, because a product is only as good as the community behind it, IMO.

So please, jrthom1, don't take it personally.
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Virtual X
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Posted: 10th May 2007 00:52
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Being blatantly honest with you, no one can answer that on here, except the developers of DBPRO, as I doubt the users of DBPRO have created anything that uses everything that DBPRO has to offer in terms of performance and features.

I would suggest to actually try and do something with it, try creating a basic scene with a few effects, fire, lighting etc.. and see what YOU can achieve, some people have done really well with it and achieved some amazing examples of what you can do if you put the work in.

There are loads of different engines available such as Irrlicht, OGRE, Torque etc... check out devmaster.net for a list of different engines if your not happy with DBPRO, I personally use Irrlicht and OGRE and dabble with DBPRO (I haven't created anything major with it as of yet), but all I can say is that DBPRO is a nice language to use to create your ideas, ok, it's not the best engine or the fastest (hopefully it will get faster) and I think the developers realise this but it's alot better than quite a few engines out there.
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jrthom1
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Posted: 10th May 2007 08:46
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Thank you all for your replies.

First off, SkyCube, I am not offended or upset about any post made on a thread I start. The more advanced users of a program were once beginners, too. They may just get tired of seeing the same posts over and over again so I understand their position as well. But the put-downs can be insulting.

I guess the best way I can explain my situation is to tell you what I am attempting. I might be biting off more than I can chew, but it will be a learning experience regardless of any outcome and that in itself is a huge success. I am on the "Can I actually do it" mentality.

Can I create this given my severe limited knowledge of programming? Some might automatically say no. Others might say it depends on what you are wanting to accomplish. While others yet might even say yes. I guess that the old saying, "if you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything," is at the heart of what I want to try.

As a composer of wind band music, I have written many works for concert and symphonic band that are now being played in my home state by highly respectable bands. With that as my adrenaline rush, I am trying something new that has fascinated me from the start.....computer programming and game design.

There are many suggestions as to what to start with and I welcome any and all suggestions. I have been advised to start very simple with a tetris type game and moving from there. What are other suggestions? I am a fan of RTS type games, as well.

Again, I welcome any posts on a thread I create. Please post.

James (Jrthom1)
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TDK
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Posted: 10th May 2007 10:10
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Quote: "First off, SkyCube, I am not offended or upset about any post made on a thread I start"


I don't see why you should have been. I've re-read all the replies and I can't see any posts which "insult or degrade" you or anyone else.

People can get a little irritated at times when newcomers to the forum post on a subject that's been covered a trillion times before and could be found in seconds by using the search button - or the subject is covered in a multitude of sticky posts at the top of each board which the poster hasn't bothered to read as they are required to.

However, this is no different to practically every other forum on the internet and probably isn't likely to change any time soon...

But, back on topic...

The problem with an MMORPG is that writing one is an astronomically huge project that even if you knew what you were doing with DB, without a dedicated full-time team of programmers, artists, musicians and money for all the server stuff behind the scenes, you really are wasting your time as it would take years.

I've been writing computer software over 25 years and I'm fairly experienced with DB but even I wouldn't attempt writing one!

I'm only stating this now because otherwise, like many others before you, you'd start it, get nowhere very fast, become disheartened and give up on DB. As an aside, it would be exactly the same whatever language you were using - like C++ for example.

I'd much prefer new users to start with simple projects that they can actually finish. The satisfaction upon finishing a silly thing like a game of Pong in 2D for the very first time when you are a beginner is just as good as finishing a full game when you are a seasoned programmer.

You're just aiming your sights a little too high for your first project. Take the learning process as being like a ladder. Start at the bottom and work up to the top rung by rung. You'll be glad you did.

TDK_Man

* TDK's Game Programming Forums - Open To All - DB & Team Request Boards *

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