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Geek Culture / Programmer's Block :(

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Zombie 20
17
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Joined: 26th Nov 2006
Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 10th May 2007 08:19
Meh..I feel that i've learned a lot these last few months, but now i'm having a tiny problem and i don't know if any of you guys can help me out with it?

I know most of the code in any examples i find and its a good feeling to not have to ask so many questions anymore, but... Now, I'm having trouble with just plain writing anything but simple effects *not that is not fun of course *. So I was wondering does anyone have some advice for what i can do?

Torsten Sorensen
19
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Joined: 23rd Oct 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posted: 10th May 2007 08:29
Same thing happened to me. Take a break for about a week, and then dive right back in on a weeknd wen you have a lot of time to dedicate in one block.


Dazzag
22
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 10th May 2007 09:14
All to do with experience, in my experience Basically you do so much work in the same language that after a while it becomes second nature. Almost like an actual spoken language. I've trained a lot of programmers (Comp sci grads, so wasn't from scratch, but sometimes it was pretty close....) and most of them kept making the same mistakes again and again, or just not realising that a combination of different code that they have already done is the answer to a new problem, until one day it clicks. You can almost see it in their eyes. Or it doesn't click and you boot them out after 3 months.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
BatVink
Moderator
21
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Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 10th May 2007 11:55
Set tasks and milestones. Nothing beats reaching a milestone for motivating yourself to continue.

GatorHex
19
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Joined: 5th Apr 2005
Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 10th May 2007 12:20 Edited at: 10th May 2007 12:23
I work on multiple ideas, when I get bored of one i do a bit of work on another or work on the web site to support it.

Or chop your single project into manageable chunks and work on each area as though it was a seperate program. Getting stuck on MMO, I move onto AI then later when I come back to the MMO part the problem is refreshed in my brain and I can normaly see the solution.

Just try to do a bit of something every day.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
Veron
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Joined: 22nd Nov 2006
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Posted: 10th May 2007 13:11
Quote: "I work on multiple ideas, when I get bored of one i do a bit of work on another or work on the web site to support it."


Exactly what I do.


[center]
Jess T
Retired Moderator
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Joined: 20th Sep 2003
Location: Over There... Kablam!
Posted: 10th May 2007 14:35
Quote: "I work on multiple ideas, when I get bored of one i do a bit of work on another or work on the web site to support it."


Probably the exact reason why games either don't get done, or they turn out so very, very bad

Nintendo DS & Dominos :: DS Dominos
http://jt0.org
Dazzag
22
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 10th May 2007 14:48 Edited at: 10th May 2007 14:49
Nah. I think the exact reason for most of us is the same reason why people have affairs Basically we start off with this lovely idea, playing around with it in our heads, we then dive in with like 12 hour coding sessions for weeks on end, making some decent progress too, then most of the cool stuff is done, you've been there, done it before, bought the T-shirt etc, and now you need to test that collision detection again. And again. And again. And again. Yawn. And now the boring, but complex, scoring and hi-score system. Double yawn. At some point in there you suddenly think of something else completely outside of your current game. Yes, it would be good to make a 3D chess board. Yes... I'll just stop my current project for a day or two... and repeat. Forever....

The other reason IMO is problems. Basically you hit a problem that completely stops development and before you can think of an answer (days of thinking) you think of another game idea that won't have any problems at all! (until you are several weeks into it).

The main difference between the vast majority of us and people who get games out is they are prepared to finish projects no matter how boring and bitty they get. Oh, and a lot of the time they will produce 5 simple, but addictive, games while you have contemplated 10 amazing ground breaking projects, and written some code to rotate a cube around a brown matrix Heh, I always remember my friends duck hunting game years ago. Seriously easy, but amazingly addictive. Everyone loved it. My well cool Dungeon Master clone didn't get out of my bedroom

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
dark coder
22
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Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: Japan
Posted: 10th May 2007 15:36
Dazzag is totally right, I can't stand working on one long project without motivation, a good way for me is to make a list of things I will make every day / week and I must stick to this schedule, because I know if I don't complete one that it will just pile up.

So the only logical conclusion to this issue is to have a game where every feature is totally awesome and not too hard to implement.

Dazzag
22
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 10th May 2007 15:48
Quote: "So the only logical conclusion to this issue is to have a game where every feature is totally awesome and not too hard to implement."
Heh, still thinking about that one mate....

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
BatVink
Moderator
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Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 10th May 2007 15:59
Quote: "then most of the cool stuff is done, you've been there, done it before, bought the T-shirt etc, and now you need to test that collision detection again. And again. And again. And again. "


I always code the "gubbings" first...all the boring stuff that doesn't get seen or even considered by an end-user. Everything is encapsulated in functions. Then, when it comes to the exciting stuff, it happens so fast that you don't want to put it down. Almost everything is composed of previoulsy written functions.

Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 10th May 2007 16:34
You have to really break a big project down, well any project above a days work should really be broken down.

Personally I like to take a single feature from idea to integration in one sitting. For example in a game I was working on I decided that it's quite tricky to know where to head to find the last remaining enemies, I didn't want to have a radar or anything cheap like that, so I decided on vultures. Making a vulture model, textured and animated is not a major concearn, small organic objects can be created very quickly, even wildlife. Then I had these vultures look for enemies, and circle them, then randomly fly off searching for more - if you have 1 enemy left he'd have 6 or 7 vultures waiting on him to die . The vulture never lands or attacks, it just does it's job, which is simply indicating for the player where the fresh meat is.

For me, little excercises like that are so much fun, you can really get into this stuff once your realistic about what you need to do, what you can do, and what won't take forever. If something takes forever, then it's usually because you missed the quick way to do it. It's not really something you can do too much until your project has some legs, like the ability to load and explore levels - once you get to that stage things get a lot more fun. I think the important thing is to not get bogged down by mind numbing code, if you need some organic influence or just a change of pace, then bite sized features in bigger projects is great fun.
I've done the same thing with moths, fish, hell I coded Nanoid pretty much exactly like this, one mad beast or cool powerup at a time.

I find it's best not to look at the big picture, because in our cases the big picture is often too daunting, consider 1 feature you'd like to see in your project, and make it happen, while your working on this 1 feature your making real progress, and it stays fresh because your not throwing features in at the end with little thought, each feature can have the same time and care spent on it.

There's no avoiding those real long and tricky tasks, like adding file formats and loaders, or making editors, but if you pepper your work with these micro-projects I find it's more likely that you'll stick with it.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Dazzag
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 10th May 2007 17:06
Quote: "You have to really break a big project down, well any project above a days work should really be broken down"
Absolutely, I just can't do it to games. Our system at work has 6000+ programs, and a decent sized job can run to 50+ programs. Think the main advantage there is that I get paid pretty well.

Quote: "or making editors"
I dunno, I've always liked making editors.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Zombie 20
17
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Joined: 26th Nov 2006
Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 11th May 2007 03:13
thank you all very much . I've taken a break and found myself feeling very refreshed, and i'm coding away again . thanks all.

zombie

Agent Dink
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Posted: 11th May 2007 07:30
I am more of a graphics and fancy effects sort of guy when it comes to making my own games, so usually once I get a convincing world set up, player movements, weapons, firing effects, explosions etc... then it all goes down hill LOL. It kills me when I get to the point of needing AI. That's when my projects totally die. However, I have lots of fun and someday soon I will have 2 projects done... just need to motivate myself for the last day on one and the last week or so on the other.

I have no signature...
Zotoaster
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Location: Scotland
Posted: 11th May 2007 13:21
When I am up for coding a full game or any other application, I just do it in short bursts. It gets especially hard when you actually have to learn how to make what you're trying to make as your going along, but that just makes everything much more interesting. I've been working on my scripting system for near up to 7 months now, and what keeps me interested is: 1) There are many different parts to learn and work on, so it never actually gets boring, 2) I know if I dont get this finished it will never stop bugging me.

When I was making X-Ball, I did it sort of differently than I used to, and I've improved on that ever since. What seems to scare people is that once they have programmed one level, they have to program another, and another, and the more levels there are, the longer the programming process will take, but it needn't be that way if all you do is simply work on a descent game engine for it to run off. Forget about object and image numbers etc, but work on, for example, an entity file type, that describes an object, where you load it from, its texture, its size, its initial angle, and maybe ohter things like mass etc. Then work on a level file type and a function to load levels. Each level file would load entity files. This means that you can make an editor, so really, once you have that, everytime you add a level, would wouldnt have to change any code what-so-ever. So maybe making the levels would be a boring process, but not as boring as programming them from scratch, and not as long. Plus you wouldn't have to worry about object numbers etc.

That's my way of doing it. I'm not gonna say "but that's just me", because that's pretty much the way it's done

Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 11th May 2007 14:25
Yeah, my main project, well it's not really my project - just making the engine for it, that uses little setup scripts to define object types, speeds, weights, and internal scripting commands, these are all loaded from a folder, and you can instantly use them in the level.

It takes a bit of effort to make your script parser, but once you can drop in the media and make a script for an entity, well it gets to be a lot more fun, and opens up the engine for other people to use. I'd much rather make the engine well enough to cope with these scripts than code each and every thing. I don't think these lengths are necessary all the time though, it can be overkill, really this method is best saved for RPG games or games with lots of items or enemies - there's a certain threshold where this is either overkill, or damn vital .


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Zotoaster
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Location: Scotland
Posted: 11th May 2007 18:25
Quote: "It takes a bit of effort to make your script parser"


Even if it's not that complex a script, the fact that anyone should use them at all should help alot.

Take this for instance:


I made a parser for that (for my Beer Chase game) in about 10 minutes hehe. But even at that, it saves me alot of trouble.

Zombie 20
17
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Joined: 26th Nov 2006
Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 13th May 2007 08:42
grr..i think the most aggravating obstacle is the fact that i don't know where to start. I know i have so much power in this language, but where do i begin??? I've done pong and other starters. But I want to strike out on my own and the experimentation(bad grammer is fun, but i'm having some trouble just coding, any suggestions.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 13th May 2007 22:20
It usually depends on what your game is like, but I tend to start mostly the same way.

You have to have a basic design in your head, I'll take my last game for instance (which I stopped because it was only while I was taking a break from my scripting language).

It involved:
1 - loadable levels
2 - entities that could be loaded and places on the levels
3 - ability to have multiple players
4 - getting the players to ride on the levels

I then just thought what these involved, and made UDTs based on these, for example, for players:


and I would basically have a whole program with a few hundren lines that didnt do anything, just had types.

I then just made some functions to read data from files and add it all to an array (for speed). Similar to the code I gave in my previous post.

So now, I have all the data for everything, I have the ability to load things that I want, so I could get started on the level loader and the controls.

Doing it this way, I have a very flexible environment. I can easily change player data, I can easily add more players (literarly 1 more line of code). I can totally change a level (no code change), and I can add new properties to players and levels, etc.

Zombie 20
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Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 19th May 2007 09:02 Edited at: 19th May 2007 19:36
removed by user .

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