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Geek Culture / What Certifications/Exams Could Be Relevant to Game Programmer, etc.?

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Underworld 1020
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Posted: 31st May 2007 04:23
I've been working on becoming a professional game programmer for the last few years. I'm currently about 6 months away from an associate’s degree in computer information systems. From there I plan to get my bachelors. But, before I do I want to take some exams and get some certifications. First so I can get any computer related job while I'm working on my bachelors, second so I can get into the gaming industry eventually.

So basically at the moment I'm looking for exams/certifications that would get me any old computer-related job that doesn't require more than an associate’s degree. I've taking a course that was supposed to prepare me for the CompTIA's A+ exam. Now that the course is over I'm studying the material more in depth and I plan to take the exam soon, hoping it will allow me to get a computer-related job. So I'm looking for other exams I can take as well that may help me out. Basically exams that are general and not too specific. Any ideas?

Also I'm looking for exams that will help me get into the gaming industry. I don't plan to take these right away, but in time...unless their not too in depth. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Underworld1020

(I will not check this thread again till tommorow)
Jeku
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Posted: 31st May 2007 08:02
Just wondering--- why would you go for your A+ if you're wanting to be a programmer? There's a big difference between IT and software engineering.

But yah, I would suggest you get your Bahelors. I see you are in the CIS field-- that's the field I went in as well, and it worked out not too bad.

Phaelax
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Posted: 31st May 2007 19:28
A+ is required for me to move beyond the call center. It's not hard to get and certainly won't hurt to have it. But yes, it doesn't have anything to do with programming.


Raven
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Posted: 31st May 2007 19:36
Bacholars in CompSci gets you very far as a coder (or oddly an artist), lots of companies seem to prefer college graduates with those nice peices of paper to people with real talent.

not that i'm bitter about being turned down by a certain company (cough:frontier:cough) simply because i didn't have the qualification they wanted me to.

Dazzag
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Posted: 31st May 2007 19:41
Quote: "Bacholars in CompSci gets you very far as a coder"
Yep, I'm afraid it's true. When we used to employ programmers a lot then even a HND (pretty much the same thing) was ignored regardless of the grade. But in our company any grade BSc would get you to the interview table (after a few years then only after you also got pretty serious marks on a test we gave earlier). At the end of the day it was an easy filter. We knew we were missing lots of potential amazing talent, but it was the easiest way to help clear the spanners. Luckily my manager liked people with a drinker's degree (look it up) or our gang of programmers wouldn't have come into being in the first place...

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Jeku
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 09:42 Edited at: 1st Jun 2007 09:43
Quote: "lots of companies seem to prefer college graduates with those nice peices of paper to people with real talent."


Game companies don't look for *just* talent. They want people who know the basic software engineering principles acquired from school. There's more to a degree than just programming, and if you have one it shows a company that you stick to a goal and you can be shaped. People without degrees who show up wanting a job because they know how to knock a crude demo together in DirectX will probably not get even an interview without the piece of paper.

Also it allows companies to reject resumes. Just think how many thousands of applications go through large companies like Electronic Arts--- they need a way to thin the pile. Binning those without degrees is a quick start.

Dazzag
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 17:26
Quote: "they need a way to thin the pile"
Yep. Even when we only had a few dozen people in our company we could easily get 100 CVs in a month. Get rid of any without any CS degree and it is much easier. You *will* miss some unbelievable talent, but overall you will get better results.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Underworld 1020
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Posted: 6th Jun 2007 03:08
Sorry I've been away for a few days...

Quote: "Just wondering--- why would you go for your A+ if you're wanting to be a programmer? There's a big difference between IT and software engineering."


Well the reason for that is...that I don't think anyone is going to hire a programmer without the bachelor's degree. So the A+ exam would allow me to get into any computer-related (like a computer repair guy, computer support person) job in the meantime while I'm working towards being a programmer.

But, I figure that their are other certifications/exams out there that I should also be looking at and I was just wondering if you guys know of any.
BluEarth Software
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Posted: 6th Jun 2007 03:25
OK, I really don't have too much room to talk, but, my $0.0001 worth are going in anyway.

I stand firm to this, COLLEGE MEANS NOTHING. Believe it or not, but some of the people with degrees do NOT know what they are doing. The person with the most experience should get the job.

--> I know this from experience, my father has never attended college before, but is the best (yes I know an opinion, but work with me) Audio Engineer I have met, (I have met at least 100) and for every band he has worked for, he always gets this compliment, "Wow! I have never heard them sound so good! What do you different?" my dad answers, "nothing." Now when you goes to get a real job, he is turned down by 4 guys, who have degrees, but the employer regrets ever have hiring those guys, so finally he hires my dad, and hasn't said a word since. (There's more, but I am going to stop here)
<--

Now, if I were to stand for this college crap, I would say that you get your A+, because the more you know about the hardware, the better you can code your software. (huge thing at Apple, but it makes tons of sense)

That's all.



Dazzag
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Posted: 6th Jun 2007 09:18
Quote: "I stand firm to this, COLLEGE MEANS NOTHING"
True. All I did was party and skip lectures. My old boss, for instance, never did anything past school, and was one of the best programmers I've ever seen (started as a punch card operator for programmers). And it has to be said that if you can get a massively lowly job (ie. not a programmer) working at a company where you can get a chance of becoming a programmer then all things are possible.

But saying all that, if you want the best chance, then do the CS degree. Person with the most experience? Sure. But how do you get that in the first place? Trust me, "No, I have no commercial programming experience, but I've programmed loads of languages for years including VB, C, etc" doesn't cut the mustard.

Plus whats with all the starting work immediately and skipping college bit? Work can be amazingly annoying and totally eat into your social life. College is party time 24/7. Then you get your BSc and off you go. I have friends who quit college or just didn't bother, with similar programming skills as me, and they didn't get interviews for months. One is now a night manager at a hotel, and the other is junior manager in a supermarket I believe.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Dazzag
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Posted: 6th Jun 2007 09:23
Oh, one good non-college route I've seen over the years is helpdesk (ie. non-tech support). If the development and tech support departments exist in the same building then it is just a matter of showing how good your IT skills are and putting in the effort in your own time. Get spotted and picked up then you could end up in the same boat as the degree grad. Although it takes a while to do this and the salary would be a lot lower until you can prove you are as good or better than the others. Assuming you work for a company that will be nice and give you the salary boost, but then you work that out with the bosses before hand.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Fallout
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Posted: 6th Jun 2007 10:13 Edited at: 6th Jun 2007 10:21
College/Uni is a bit of a farce when the employers don't understand what a degree is. I'll agree with that. Someone with a degree isn't necessarily any good at what they got a degree in - I'll go with that too.

The main benefit of a degree is it demonstrates someone can learn a complex subject, manage deadlines, and self-teach. If someone has a 2-1 or 1st level degree in a difficult subject, they're not necessarily experts in that subject, BUT they are highly adept at learning and adapting to that subject.

If you want someone to get stuck into a job that needs a lot of knowledge straight away (e.g. straight into a sound recording studio), then you need to get the most experienced candidate. If you want to spend a bit of time sculpting a new employee so he/she is an expert at the job you want them to do, you get a high level graduates.

A degree proves you are extremely capable and have a foundation in a subject, but it does not mean you're an expert in it yet. A lot of employers don't understand that concept. Bigger employers (such as IBM, EDS, Microsoft etc etc.) fully understand the concept, so mostly recruit graduates, and spend a lot of time and money developing them with education and work experience. They know top grads are the most capable people around, but they need skill development and experience to become useful.

Basically, big companies can afford to invest for the future to have the best staff (hence grads). Smaller companies need good staff right away, as they can't afford in the investment (hence experience!). But, the reason why big companies like IBM stay in front is their willingness to make that initial investment in their staff and ultimately nurture the best professionals in the industry.


Jeku
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 00:46
Quote: "stand firm to this, COLLEGE MEANS NOTHING. Believe it or not, but some of the people with degrees do NOT know what they are doing. The person with the most experience should get the job."


Experience with what. You can't *get* experience without the degree, so you're stuck in a loop. Therefore, get your degree and get a job, then get experience.

Writing DBP games in your spare time does not count as experience, believe it or not.

Seems like the majority of those who trash a degree are those that paid exorbitant amounts for an art-school "game-making certificate" or those who are too lazy to put in the 4 years. Nothing worth-while achieving is free

Underworld 1020
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 02:10 Edited at: 7th Jun 2007 02:11
Well I think the main point on the college issue is that nobody is going to hire you without it. If you go to any game developer's website and look for jobs as a programmer, you will see that a 4 year degree in either computers, math, or physics is a requirement. That right there is enough reason to go, and plus you do learn a lot of things you would not have without going. Before I started I too thought I knew everything, but it turns out that I knew nothing.

Back to topic, anybody have any suggestions on the exams/certifications?
BluEarth Software
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 01:12
I do agree to that, in a our bias world, if you got a degree (a good one) you got it made. But it still really, doesn't mean anything.

I thought I was going to have another one of those accidents when i asked for help, and instead the guy helping me ( a mod) pissed me off, and then we both went out. So thanks for seeing it my way, and not pissing me off.



Dazzag
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 09:11 Edited at: 13th Jun 2007 09:13
Quote: "do agree to that, in a our bias world, if you got a degree (a good one) you got it made"
No, no, and erm, no. It's just a way of filtering the *loads* of people who now become programmers. Tell me a better way of quickly, cheaply, and easily getting rid of the majority of hundreds of CVs that will come in to most software houses every month? We only employed just over 100 people at our place at the time, with about 50 programmers, and we still got at least 100 CVs every month. And no doesn't have to be a good degree really, just gives you a wider range of jobs. Every person with a 1st that I interviewed was a cocky little twerp who thought he was the bees knees, had the social skills of a retarded hammer, and practically told you he would be out of here within a year or two (dumba**). And no, these days it doesn't mean you have it made it just means you have a much better chance of getting an interview in the 1st place.

Basically with the massive amount of people who have been told to become programmers over the years then programmers have become less important. Less like the main man and the project Guru, but more like the plumber who sorts things out quite well. When I started working in 1995 programmers were numerous but you only had to look around for a short while. My boss at the time was about 15 years older than me, didn't have a degree or infact any computer qualification, but was clever and into programming after starting as a punch card operator for the programmers. Once they realised he could program then he was gold. Head hunted like no tomorrow after that basically. Contrast that with today and you are one of very many. My current company (not me doing the employing any more) currently employ grads by the bucket load with the full intention of letting most of them fail. Employee turnover is huge.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Phaelax
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Posted: 14th Jun 2007 04:11
I just got a forunate job, they'll pay for any IT-related certification I want. A+ is a bare minimum requirement if I want to move into any other departments, that includes programming.


Dazzag
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Posted: 14th Jun 2007 09:28
Didn't say it was impossible, just said what would give someone the best chance. Every programmer knows someone who got into the industry without a degree, but look around a decent sized software house and it will be very rare indeed to find a non-grad. Not sure how many programmers we employ anymore, but I'm guessing it is near a thousand. The building I used to work in (lots of locations for the company) employed around 200 programmers I reckon. Apart from my old boss (who was pushed out in the 1st redundancies after 911) I don't know anyone who doesn't have a degree.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."

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