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Geek Culture / Safari for Windows

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John Y
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Posted: 11th Jun 2007 21:14 Edited at: 11th Jun 2007 21:36
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So, just watching the Apple Keynote, and Safari is coming to windows.

Javascript: ie 2.4 sec, ff 1.6, saf 0.9

HTML render performance: ie 4.6 sec, ff 3.7, safari 2.2

Will be downloading for sure.

Edit

Apparently a beta later today @ http://www.apple.com/safari

Edit

Available now (8Mb)

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soapyfish
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Posted: 11th Jun 2007 22:03 Edited at: 11th Jun 2007 22:07
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Top stuff!
Safari is great on OS X. I personally feel the layout is much cleaner and simpler than FF or IE. Here's hoping it's just as good on Windows.

We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day. We like who we like, we hate who we hate but we're also easily swayed!
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 11th Jun 2007 22:12
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Most of the lag I get comes from a slow download speed. Better coding is going to make little difference in that respect. Anyhow, what are these artbitary units? They're not milliseconds, and I can tell you it doesn't take 2.2 seconds to launch Firefox. 0.5-1 seconds at the most. Haven't we had enough bad experiences with Quicktime's lagginess and iTunes's crashes to know to steer clear of Apple's Windows software?


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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AlanC
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Posted: 11th Jun 2007 22:43
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That great news. Safari is really simple to use.

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John Y
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Posted: 11th Jun 2007 22:52 Edited at: 11th Jun 2007 22:53
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Javascript: ie 2.4 sec, ff 1.6, saf 0.9

HTML render performance: ie 4.6 sec, ff 3.7, safari 2.2

It's working nicely so far.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Jun 2007 22:53
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Well I'm downloading now, might be worth using as a FF replacement. -What's the security like on Windows? Mactastic?

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 11th Jun 2007 23:03
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What on earth did they use that takes that long to render? I simply fail to believe the test PC is over 2mhz.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Jun 2007 23:13
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Freaking sexy, sorry, but it is - I think it is a bit quicker myself - so yeah -> worth downloading...unless the security is crap. (The interface is faster I think too)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/seppuku05/safari.jpg

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Steve J
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Posted: 11th Jun 2007 23:21
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ew. Next please. Mac software on Windows is terrible.

Time is ticking away.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Jun 2007 23:35
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I don't think it doesn't do too bad with the WinXP Zune theme, okay, not perfect, but it looks good IMO. Of course appearance isn't everything.

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John Y
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 00:07
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The only problem I have had with Apple software on windows was caused by Windows Vista. Safari seems great, and it (rudely) uses firefox plugins! Clever move by Apple.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 00:08
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Surely they cannot sell it if it uses Firefox plugins! It's like someone making a free engine in DB and a company using it to make and sell a commercial game!


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 00:29
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But they're not selling Safari...I think Firefox and Apple have similar interests - although I'm sure they're not happy bees, but I'm sure if they claimed property to the plugin code then they must have made an agreement with apple, or if not, then if they're annoyed, perhaps they should have slapped copyright where necessary. Sad as it may be, business is competitive - hence I'm not going to run one

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John Y
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 00:38
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It's free, when the market is so crowded/or there are unbeatable competitors then you have to make money elsewhere. In Apple's case it is 'see how good this single piece of software is, well switch to a Mac and everything is this good.'

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spooky
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 01:08
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I've always wanted a way of testing websites I manage at work using safari on a mac, but lack of macs has been a problem. Problem solved! This is going to save us a lot of hassle.

Boo!
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DrewG
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 01:57
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Safari is like a jungle in Bangledesh. Which is in the Western fronts of the canals routes from the Safariac jungles of West Africanians Zimbabwe. Therefore the theororetical plauses of the cause of this Safariac Name for this Pear.. erm... Apple type of software. Hype!
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Phaelax
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 03:47
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Works great on Win2k, much quicker at loading pages than IE and FF. (FF is slow)
The text rendering is rather crappy though, fonts are too soft and appear slightly blurred.


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indi
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 04:11
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Thats pretty cool, as an alternative, safari is well good, for the mac owners as well you might want to try a new browser called camino, its a gecko/mozilla based firefox variant and its pretty good.
Isnt the text rendering a case of windows anyway?


http://www.caminobrowser.org/ v1.5 is a leap over the older one.

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Raven
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 05:11
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i've never been fond of the Mac look, but it is blisteringly quick.
honestly i think they have their times wrong:

on here -
Explorer 7 (apple.com) 2.8s
Safari (apple.com) <1s
FireFox 2 (apple.com) 3.8s

that's for the entire page to load. Explorer will show the topbar in <1s but the rest of the page then takes a couple more seconds to finish loading. This said explorer loads all of the page before rendering rather than just what you can see; not sure if safari is doing the same though.

not sure about javascript as i didn't bother testing it, but still quite impressive.

this said new windows loading times are quite different.

(from cold boot)
Explorer 7 - 4.1s
Safari - 15s
FireFox 2 - 12s

(from pre-load boot)
Explorer 7 - <1s
Safari - 4.3s
FireFox 2 - 8s

Also the Memory useage is quite crazy:

Explorer 7 - 8MB (plus 4MB for ieuser)
Safari - 26MB
FireFox 2 - 24MB

although this said Safari won't expand exponencially like FireFox 2 does by simply browsing, or atleast hasn't on me yet.
also Safari seems to be very memory concious:

6 tabs (apple.com)

Explorer 7 - 26MB
Safari - 32MB
FireFox 2 - 72MB

will stick to Explorer 7 though, as i prefer it.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 10:45
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Meh. Best thing by far though, the killer feature for me, is the search function. Try CTRL+F and search for something to see what I mean. If I can't find an FF addon that does that then Safari stays installed just for that one thing when I want to search a large page. Now where is a mod to that IE-tab addon for FF to use a Safari tab? That would do it too...

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 11:51
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DANG thats a quick browser!

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indi
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 12:09
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safari apple tabs since v2.0 im guessing control T on windows.

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spooky
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 13:04 Edited at: 12th Jun 2007 13:35
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Had time for a quick play and not too impressed so far.

Text smoothing is really bad and you can not turn it off. Lowest smooting option called 'light' still looks too blurry. Why can't they just have an 'off' option?

Annoying that if you work on a maximized browser, then minimize window, than click on taskbar icon to restore window, then it comes back unmaximized.

There's a few small glitches with certain CSS commands but nothing major.

For some reason a fairly simple javascript and CSS slideshow thingy on a site I'm designing at the minute just refuses to work. Works in all other browsers just fine. Will look at that later.

I also notice that there is no status bar, so when hovering over a link to a different site, you cannot see in advance where you are going.

As it's only a beta product I would think there are plenty of little bugs to iron out but looks promising I suppose.

[EDIT] another annoyance is that it does not support extra mice buttons for 'back' and 'forward' like all other browsers. Makes browsing so much more pleasureable.

Boo!
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indi
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 13:21
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text smoothing sounds like a windows "feature"
does that same happen on the konquerer browser?

safari in apple shows status in the bottom left of the window.

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John Y
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 13:27
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The most reported annoyance is with the font smoothing, perhaps later additions will allow it to be disabled.

Also, there are a few security issues popping up. Perhaps it will be best to hold off a bit until the final release is here in October.

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Raven
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 17:24
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Quote: "Text smoothing is really bad and you can not turn it off. Lowest smooting option called 'light' still looks too blurry. Why can't they just have an 'off' option?"


It only becomes too much on bold text really, but having an off option would be great. Not even using ClearType stops it from looking too much and blurry.

Quote: "another annoyance is that it does not support extra mice buttons for 'back' and 'forward' like all other browsers. Makes browsing so much more pleasureable."


Yeah, FireFox 2 doesn't support the back-forward buttons on my mouse that Explorer 7 does. Browsing ends up feeling so much slower and more of a performance without this simple enhancement.

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spooky
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 17:54
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Weird. Firefox 2.0.0.4 works quite happily with the extra mouse buttons, but different mice have different drivers, so looks like you are just unlucky.

I found the option to turn on statusbar. It's just turned off as a default to make more room.

Also fixed my slideshow thingy. Just a silly mistake.

I have found that changes to preferences do not get saved, so setting home page to blank page or fiddling with text smoothing just gets reset to default when you reload browser. How stupid.

Boo!
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xplosys
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 18:10
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I immediately notice two things:

1. I cannot access the Windows taskbar without minimizing Safari. Not great for multi-tasking.

2. The "show this group" and "hide this group" links don't show up on the main forum page.

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

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Robot
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Posted: 12th Jun 2007 18:31
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Quote: "I have found that changes to preferences do not get saved, so setting home page to blank page or fiddling with text smoothing just gets reset to default when you reload browser. How stupid."


Saves all the preferences here.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 00:33
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Quote: ". I cannot access the Windows taskbar without minimizing Safari. Not great for multi-tasking"

works fine here.


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Raven
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 00:37
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I never had any issues with that either :-\

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Phaelax
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 04:54 Edited at: 13th Jun 2007 04:55
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I cleared all my browsers and reloaded them fresh and loaded up slashdot's homepage. Here's the memory results I got for each:





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alex 1337
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 06:44
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Yeah, Safari sucks. It seems slower to me than firefox.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 13:08
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That's not very nice Alex...Safari is awesome on a Mac - though it is lacking in some places on the PC - but of course what some people are forgetting, is that it's currently the BETA version with Apple's first windows attempt at Safari, so just report the problems as bugs and see if they get fixed for the final...that's if you care of course.

Interesting there Phaelex - Safari doesn't seem to run that high for me...yet Firefox is higher than that...

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Arkheii
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 14:57 Edited at: 13th Jun 2007 15:00
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+ It's quick
+ Visual cues are great (ie. search keyword highlighting like Dazzag mentioned)
+ Resizing text fields is fancy
+ Bookmark bar is nice

- Consumes so much memory
- Saving a page doesn't save images and other resouces
- Can't scroll with the middle mouse button
- No syntax highlighting with built-in HTML source viewer

It's nice as a lightweight browser. Though I'm sticking with Opera 9.

Oh, and you can toggle the status bar by pressing Ctrl+/

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 15:36
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Quote: "Interesting there Phaelex - Safari doesn't seem to run that high for me...yet Firefox is higher than that.."


-> Just to correct myself, I get 37,696 on Safari and about 27,000 on Firefox - however last time I looked, Firefox was more like 47,000

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Roxas
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 17:58
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Its great but Opera still pwnz it.. But it has same wak point what opera has the memory usage.. but anyways.. Not changing my web browser still


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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 18:29
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Firefox will consume far more memory if you have Fasterfox set up - it saves a picture of each visited page to memory so it appears nearly spontaneously.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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soapyfish
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 22:49
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'Day One' for Safari for Windows Becomes Zero-Day Nightmare Oops

We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day. We like who we like, we hate who we hate but we're also easily swayed!
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 23:12
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Well I can see why it's still in BETA - isn't that usually the time when the community throws what it can at it and the company fix the bugs. But we'll see on full release.

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FredP
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Posted: 14th Jun 2007 00:31
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I just tried Safari for Windows earlier today.Seemed to work great until I checked my e-mail.My e-mail does not work on Safari.
So now i don't have it anymore.I might check back on this when they get a more stable product.I have to be able to check my e-mail.It's the closest thing I have to a social life.

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ionstream
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Wow, hopefully they'll be able to give some of this speed to the Konqueror base! Right now that browser is slow as pittens. Looks excellent too.

That's not as bad as you think you said.
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Phaelax
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Here's an article comparing the three browsers, somewhat. The author was obviously a FF fanboy.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070612-afirst-look-safari-3-on-windows.html


I've only had one safari crash in the past 2 days of using it. My school's online classes website claims it won't work with Safari 3, but you can bypass that and try anyway. So far it works fine, but certain labs probably won't work as they won't even work in FF but IE only.

I have yet to get a textbox to resize in safari, I don't know what all these ppl are talking about. Font rendering does need work, a session restore feature would be nice, and they definiately need to fix the bookmarks tab.


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Jeku
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Posted: 14th Jun 2007 09:37
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Quote: "however last time I looked, Firefox was more like 47,000"


I've had mine almost 250MB at work. Firefox has the tendency to keep everything in RAM for faster page reloads.

That being said, anyone know how I can disable that "feature"? I'm annoyed with having to kill Firefox once a day when it takes up too much RAM. I don't mind my previously-visited sites taking a few seconds extra to load.

-------------------------

About Safari--- ew. I already despise the iTunes interface (even though I use it at home and work)--- I don't want that in my browser. I hate the colours, the little icons, and the slow page loads. Instantly uninstalled.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 04:42
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slow page loads? Everyone else so far claims its quicker than FF, even if only marginally to them.


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FredP
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 06:11
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It worked like lightning for me...at least three times faster than my current browser.Unfortunately when I went to check my e-mail it wouldn't do it.

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Arkheii
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 13:55
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Quote: "I might check back on this when they get a more stable product.I have to be able to check my e-mail.It's the closest thing I have to a social life."


@Mac users: Is the Windows Safari beta missing any features from the Mac, or is it really intended to be a lightweight browser?

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indi
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 16:15
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its missing an arm and a leg, in fact its missing OSX.

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Vampiric
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I've got it, I find it loads web pages a lot slower then firefox, especially TGC for some weird reason.

Computer says n00bed
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Arkheii
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 20:24
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Quote: "its missing an arm and a leg, in fact its missing OSX."


Not really. Most of us were overlooking that on purpose.

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