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Geek Culture / How to pitch game ideas to professionals

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HWT
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Posted: 14th Jun 2007 22:14
I have a few ideas for games but I'm uncapable of making them on my own. Therefore I reasoned that by pitching them to professonals, and if they like them, they would be actualised. Any ideas about doing this? Who to talk to where to start?

P.S. Yes - I know that this is a stupid question to ask on a forum dedicated to game making in itself but I just can't ask this anywhere else.

Hello World Tommorrow
Suicidal Sledder
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Posted: 14th Jun 2007 22:18
its basically impossible... they will think ur just some random kid that wants someone else to do a bunch of work for them. The only way that would work would be if u wrote the game urself and then sold it to a company, or if you became an offical game designer... other than that i think ur out of luck

Raven
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Posted: 14th Jun 2007 22:24
The industry has professionals that in their own right have the only job to concept and bring that concept to the development team in a way that they can understand.

If you want to get your foot in the door as a designer/producer though, your best bet is via Eidos. They actively search for interesting and good game ideas, then work with the conceptee to bring that title to life.

This said for this you must be over 18 and legally allowed to sign NDA, etc.. also you generally aren't paid, but you are credited.

Chris K
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Posted: 14th Jun 2007 22:28
If you managed it, you would be the first ever.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Oolite
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Posted: 14th Jun 2007 23:09
First off you'd need to look the part, smart, well dressed and not a 14 year old (not in anyway implying your a young 'un)

You would then need, a full, complete GDD explaining every aspect of the game, concept sketches where needed, professionally done in large print.
You'd have to give a presentation to a few members of this development team, all the time trying to sell your idea and telling them how they would be able to benefit by taking on your project.

There are entire companies devoted to creating game ideas and franchises(Tigon) so you'd be extremely lucky if they at least accepted to see your presentation.

I have no idea where you would start, try just contacting game studios around your area and seeing if they would be interested in hearing your ideas. Its a start, from my experience its been from word of mouth, about who i know and who knows about me, so get your name out there, it can't hurt to try.


[Looking for work]
Suicidal Sledder
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Posted: 14th Jun 2007 23:39
and start small! Dont go straight to Ubisoft or Activision. Some some small, more "personal" groups with only a dozen ppl in them or so. They are much more likely to accept your ideas. Then, once you have designed a few games for very small "companies" you can take it to the next level and go with an official game producer. Then you can say that you designed the other games and show them samples and stuff... just make sure its good enough that your actually helping yourself and not shooting yourself in the foot!!

David R
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Posted: 14th Jun 2007 23:42
Don't send ideas unsolicited via mail/email etc. - most game companies cannot legally read/open such mail


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Jeku
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 02:22
Ideas are a dime a dozen. Don't want to kill your energy, but most companies are not interested in hearing "ideas" from outside the company. They legally most likely will not let you pitch your idea.

Suicidal Sledder
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 07:16
Unless you have a REALLY REALLY good idea and have most (if not all) of the conceptualization done, artwork, sketches, solid story line, media.... all the good stuff... Like Jeku said, Anyone that plays video games can have ideas for them. You need to have a lot of something to prove that you have more than just ideas.

if that makes any sense... but even then, I doubt they will look much into your project unless its like a private company (noncommercial) or a really small group of people.

zenassem
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 07:49
It may seem unforutunate, but "Ideas" in the industry are like butth*les.. everyone has one. While it may not seem that way considering so many games on the market seem uninspired, pro's in the inudustry aren't going to spend time listening to your ideas. Implementation of ideas is the key. And even then, you'll find it hard if you don't have some shipped porducts under your belt.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 07:56 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 07:58
It would never work. There are plenty of ideas in house that they'd take instead. You'd have to arrange a meeting with people in the company that are capable of okaying the funds for such an undertaking and they have far better things to do than to listen to any random person's game ideas.

You just need to learn how to make your game yourself. That's the whole point of this forum and TGC's products.


Come see the WIP!
zenassem
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 08:01 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 08:22
To add to this...

When I was younger, I wrote a letter to Howard Phillips @ Nintendo about a game idea I had for the NES. I always loved the game "One-On-One" for the Apple by Electronic Arts. But thought it could be taken to a new level, and starring Michael Jordan. I wrote out the entire design including sprite graphics on graph-paper and modes such as Slam Dunk Contest, and 3-Point shoot-outs.

Needless to say I got a reply thanking me for my interest in video-games, a T-shirt, and a free copy of Nintendo Power. The letter went on to say that the dept I had sent it to was not in charge of what games were developed for the system blah blah...

A game, pretty much "To-The-T" of my idea was eventually released. Unfortunately it wasn't even close to addictive as the original. I'll have to look up what developer was actually behind it. Now I'm sure the idea wasn't really taken from my letter, but.... it sure felt that way.

Looked it up, and it was Jordan Vs. Bird One-On-One form MB
I even specified updating Dr. J to Jordan, and keeping Larry Bird from the original game. Honest to God truth. And I made the suggestion 3 years before the release. So take it or leave it, but I can honestly say that's one way NOT TO PITCH an IDEA!

[EDIT]
Oh and BTW, I believe my mother saved the letter I received from nintendo. I will ask her about it the next time I visit. And post it up here. They never did return my original work.

Along with the above idea I also pitched an animal adventure, closely related to Zelda's mechanics. over 20 pages back & front of level maps, Sprite sets "hand-drawn" with color codes and legend key, triggers... all graphic pages were linked to the Dialogue/story scripts and Quests etc. Don't think anything came of that one. But I worked really hard on it. I did have a flying racoon and Islands, sort of like Super Mario Bro's 3... But I won't go that far...

Jeku
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 09:37 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 09:38
Odds are they didn't read your letter--- it's treated as unsolicited for the very scenario you prescribed. Man pitches game to company, company says no but makes game anyways, man sues company. If they make a rule not to read your design doc, and bin it straight away, they legally cover their ass.

EDIT:

Actually I just remembered that companies hold game pitch sessions internally. I've sat through quite a few meetings where an employee pitches their game to the execs. Companies have no problem with that because they own everything the employee creates as part of their employment contract.

Fallout
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 13:49
It's a shame it works like this, since most industry professional game concept designers are clearly about as imaginative as a haddock. Having said that, I think 99% of people think they have a great idea, but only 5% of people actually have a good idea. And those 95% who don't have good ideas, are unimaginative enough to think other bad ideas are good ... which is why we have so many crap games. Unimaginative game designers, and unimaginative teams thinking those unimaginative ideas are actually good! *deep breath*


tha_rami
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 13:58
Cool, hey Fallout, do you think I have a good idea with SeaDome?

(Given my graduation, I'm in the intellectual top 5% of my country, so if SeaDome is good, I'm in the top 5% of idea's as well!).

I side with Fallout here (*deep breath* as well, followed by *sigh*)

GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 14:01
Making a Demo is always a good foot in the door.

Raven
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 16:07
Quote: "It's a shame it works like this, since most industry professional game concept designers are clearly about as imaginative as a haddock. Having said that, I think 99% of people think they have a great idea, but only 5% of people actually have a good idea. And those 95% who don't have good ideas, are unimaginative enough to think other bad ideas are good ... which is why we have so many crap games. Unimaginative game designers, and unimaginative teams thinking those unimaginative ideas are actually good! *deep breath*"


More often than not, those who's job it is to concept usually have some very good ideas.. and design documents are often pretty damn long once a working design is agreed upon by the team.

Unfortunately during development circumstances can change, so the design document usually undergo's several revisions; changes etc. to what is felt will work, what can actually be done, etc.

I mean it's great saying "and then the hero looks out across the ruins of the city to see thousands of creatures crawling out of everywhere.." if the hardware and engine can only physically have a small draw distance and a couple hundred creatures.
So that scene would either get designed to fit, or more often cut and replaced.

While what Jeku says is true, ideas are a dime-a-dozen.. good ideas and being able to bring that to life for others to understand your idea as well is a very different thing. This is why it is an industry of it's own.

As I mentioned Eidos is about the only company I know that legitimately takes ideas from users, and while yes never actually heard of anyone's being used yet.. I'm sure if it's actually interesting enough someone will want to develop it. I just wouldn't hold out hope on it.

Fallout
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 16:17
@tha_rami

Just read your idea for the first time. If I'm totally honest, I don't think it's an idea that naturally ports itself to a game. You're going to have real problems with balancing real-time elements with keeping it fun and attainable. For example, if the player races to the end of the game long before the water rises, he'll have an hour to defeat the big boss and stroll into the sub .... no excitement. In contrast, the player could find he's saved the game in a position where it's impossible for him to get to the next point without drowning.

Definitely very difficult to get right, but it's thinking outside the box and trying things like this that could make a great original game. So good luck with it mate. I would say though, be prepared to reinvent it and sacrifice some of your ideas along the way to make it work. Don't stick to your original idea stubbornly and forfeit gameplay enjoyment if a few sacrifices could make it more fun. But definitely unique, so good luck.


entomophobiac
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 17:07
Quote: "Making a Demo is always a good foot in the door."


The term would be to make a "vertical slice," which is essentially a showcase of what the game is intended to do. If we take a simple example, a vertical slice from a game like GTA3 would feature a few cars, the hijacking of a car, some gunfighting and a cutscene or two.

Picture the full game as a cake. Your vertical slice is basically a demo that shows you one piece of that cake, chosen from among the most important designs in the game.

The graphics don't need to be crisp. The controls don't need to be perfect. All it needs to be is presentable and functional in conveying how you intend the game to be.

So, if you want your "foot in the door," make your vertical slice, write a page of simple information that sticks to the reader and finally pitch it.

To show people how your game is supposed to be played is far better than to talk about it. And to focus on why its a great game is far better than a million normal maps or HDR effects...
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 17:27
A demo is nice, but it is next to impossible to have a demo taken into consideration when you're trying to get your foot in the door. The most important thing is involvement in a 'shipped' game. That is, games that were published. The position of lead game developer usually requires 2 or 3 shipped games. I might not turn a profit with my games, but they will meet this requirement.


Come see the WIP!
Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 18:23
Friend of mine and his Amiga demo making team (3 of them) went to an interview with Rare (or might have been UPTG at the time, I can't remember...). Him and his mate were total hardcore coders and basically failed the interview. Their other mate was more of an ideas man and talked for ages in the interview about cool certain aspects of games like Mario were (even though my mate hated games like that with a passion. More of a C&C type person if you get my drift). Anyways, the ideas bloke got the job.

Apparently, according to the ideas bloke, they put him into game design. The one big thing I remember my friend saying (he told me this in 1995 I think) was his mate worked on a lot of levels and character designs for that arcade fighting game they made. Erm, Killer Instinct I believe. Anyway he worked on that for a while and none of his designs went to the finished game. And he had quite a few. Apparently he had worked there quite a while before any design of his was approved. Think he got one or two things into Killer Instinct 2. Works directly for Ninty now in the US. Or at least thats the last my mate heard of him (a long time ago).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 18:36 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 18:38
Wasn't Worms a game made on basic, which some dude took to Team17 and they recoed it in C?

Wasn't very ground breaking i remmber a tank game that looked like that, but they loved the idea of battling worms I guess.

My memory is very hazey about the 90s

Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 18:38
That was the rumour. Wasn't it that Ape banana throwing game that came with QB? Was seriously addictive...

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Fallout
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 18:42 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 18:42
Yeah, Gorrilas. Well, the game industry has moved on a bit since then. I reckon you could get one of your game ideas developed if you just showed up with a baseball bat ..... made of diamond, and gave it to them.


Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 18:43
Quote: "and gave it to them"
*Coff* Yeah, and that too *Coff*

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 18:44
Oh, BTW:-



Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
entomophobiac
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 18:49
This was to grasp at how to get in the door with an existing idea. If all you want to do is provide ideas you're most probably out of luck in today's game industry.

Unfortunate but true. Everyone and their grandma has ideas.
GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 18:55 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 19:04
Wow Quick Basic now that takes me back
Was all i had to program with in the early days of the PC, talking top spec of 486-33Mhz CPU and 2mb of RAM, 80Mb HDD back then

Amiga was king of gaming back then

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 19:02 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 19:04
It's about the same as trying to get a movie made with nothing but an idea. Good luck. Even two bit studios thinking about making the third clone of Zombie Rave 6 wouldn't listen.

I hated that gorilla game. Entering angles was dumb. The game was dumb. The gorillas were dumb. The buildings and bananas were dumb.


Come see the WIP!
Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 19:04 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 19:05
Quote: "33Mhz CPU and 2mb of RAM"
What you talking about young 'un? That was a practical supercomputer of a PC when I started (actually it didn't exist, at least not for a PC). Think the 1st proper PC I used (ie. IBM compatible effort) was a 4mhz effort. No HD either. We used to look down on them from our Amiga/ST/Arch/Mac pasts. Those were the days

Heh I remember doing work experience and they had this top of the line 386. I don't remember the Mhz, but I doubt it was more than 16 or so. But it had this *huge* hard drive. Can't remember exactly but they had partitioned it like 20 times (once for each employee of the department). Must have had 100mb of space. Really was a power machine at the time (I really was in awe of seeing this machine after being in college. I mean really...). Let down slightly by the fact they had installed Lotus 123 in every single partition (and had every single box for each installment with manual in a cupboard - was cheaper than getting 20 licences apparently) and the screen looked like a plasma cloud thanks to the massive amounts of magnetic pull coming from the factory (was a huge Aluminium plant). Mono screens (wow, remember them?) worked differently and you could see the picture curving towards the magnetic pull even when massively shielded (big metal cases around the monitors). You could feel the keys in your pocket pulling quite a bit when you were in the main factory area

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 19:16 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 19:18
Yeah i wasn't interested in PC back then, I prefered ST and Amiga but i could see the writing on the wall that everything was going PC so got one but was depressed with it's gaming performance. Only game i enjoyed was some 3D car sim where I could take a Cobra and others, olong american roads like route 66. I forget it's name but 3D graphics amazed me back then as nearly everything was 2D.

I had a 386 laptop, I remmber the upgrading it with a floating point unit chip (FPU)! LOL how things changed now we have PPUs.

I wonder if in 10 years PPU will be standard on the CPU die and we look back to these old days

zenassem
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 19:37
From the rumor mill (and I have no real clue as I haven't bothered to check) but I heard the original version of "Scorched Earth" was done by 3 bedroom coders, in either Pascal or BASIC before some of the routines were converted to Assembly. I will have to look that up though. And Scorched Earth, like many titles of the day, is hard to track down it's origins.

I had versions of a few games that were possibly demo's coded in basic, with a few Machine Language routine calls to handle the sprites and the screen SLI (Scan Line Interrupt) code. One was a Darts game that was featured in Compute!, and later I saw a slightly updated version in a retail store. I believe another was "Hacker" for the C64. By far the biggest title was a demo version with source code listing of Kennedy Approach (without the speech synthesis). I can't confirm whether this was a legitimate beta, or someones attempt at a remake. But the Basic source was simply a loader for a bunch of machine language calls, an poke statements that went on for pages. Couldn't make heads or tails out of it, much like when I look at Doom or Quake source code.

MikeS
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 19:41
I'd say the best way in would be to have a working demo. That is an absolute must. From their, there's a better, but still slim, chance that they may look into funding a project like that.

Even so, if they were to like what you have, you're more likely to get a job at that studio than to have your game produced.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)
Jeku
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 19:44 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 19:44
Actually the best way is to get in the door regularly--- maybe as a software engineer. We all know the term "moving up" in business--- there's SE 1, 2, 3, etc. Most companies will *also* allow you to move horizontally into another field if the opportunity arises. I have personally witnessed an SE buddy move into an associate producer position. Producers are basically game designers--- they make the majority of the decisions for the game. If you work for a bit as an associate producer, you will probably eventually get control of your own game.

tha_rami
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 20:31
Quote: "
Definitely very difficult to get right, but it's thinking outside the box and trying things like this that could make a great original game. So good luck with it mate. I would say though, be prepared to reinvent it and sacrifice some of your ideas along the way to make it work. Don't stick to your original idea stubbornly and forfeit gameplay enjoyment if a few sacrifices could make it more fun. But definitely unique, so good luck. "


Don't worry, we're doing what is possible - we're sacrificing what is needed. As yet, we hadn't had the need to sacrifice anything - we actually got some ways to 'delay' the player (variable delays, for example) if he's too quick, and a saving system that requires the player to stand save. Besides, every room will have multiple exits - the only way to screw up is by saving in a totally submerged room without air (and then you still have 3 save slots).

Thanks, glad you like it. Definitely another motivation to continue with the project (The great Fallout likes it! OMG!).

Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 21:23 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 21:24
Quote: "The great Fallout likes it!"
He did? Didn't quite read it like that. Will need to have a look myself. Browsed though, but looks interesting. Reminds me of that game, erm, think it was called Flood. But was essentially a platform game with constantly raising water. Pretty good. Actually combine that with that awesome water flow code snippet hanging around and would be a good retro remake.

And that top 5% thing was told to us as soon as we stepped through the door at Uni. Not sure if it applied to the art students though (infamous last lecture is learning how to say "Would you like fries with that?"). Personally we ignored all that and proceeded with the important partying and (for the more geeky crowd) coding demos on ataris and amigas. Lectures extremely optional.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Fallout
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 21:48
Quote: "It's about the same as trying to get a movie made with nothing but an idea."


I'd say, it's probably easier to get a movie made. At least you can just write a story and script and some producer might love it and go for it.

Quote: "The great Fallout likes it! OMG!"


Quality! When did I become the great Fallout? Is it my plethora of completely unfinished games?


tha_rami
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 23:14 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 23:17
Quote: "He did? Didn't quite read it like that. Will need to have a look myself. Browsed though, but looks interesting. Reminds me of that game, erm, think it was called Flood. But was essentially a platform game with constantly raising water. Pretty good. Actually combine that with that awesome water flow code snippet hanging around and would be a good retro remake."

He did! "could make a great original game" and "but definitely unique, so good luck" - definitely sounds as if he likes it. Thanks that you seem to find it interesting too.

Quote: "And that top 5% thing was told to us as soon as we stepped through the door at Uni. Not sure if it applied to the art students though (infamous last lecture is learning how to say "Would you like fries with that?"). Personally we ignored all that and proceeded with the important partying and (for the more geeky crowd) coding demos on ataris and amigas. Lectures extremely optional. "

Well, the top 5% was statistically underbuilt (Netherlands) so I believe it. We continue with the partying, replying to this one before I get back to the others. Art students here are quite wanted, so I'm hoping to end up quite well. Time'll tell.

Quote: "Quality! When did I become the great Fallout? Is it my plethora of completely unfinished games? "

Yup! It's amazing that you have so many promising games that you didn't finish. But the weird thing is that I still feel you're one of the better programmers around here .

Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 23:16
Quote: "Art students here are quite wanted, so I'm hoping to end up quite well"
You aren't doing a degree in art are you? That would be too flukey of me...

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Diggsey
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 23:18
Quote: "smart, well dressed and not a 14 year old"


Damn! I fail them all

Fallout
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Posted: 16th Jun 2007 00:13 Edited at: 16th Jun 2007 00:14
Quote: "Yup! It's amazing that you have so many promising games that you didn't finish. But the weird thing is that I still feel you're one of the better programmers around here"


haha. Well I'll just take the complement and shut up. Also, I was going to update my sig yesterday, but never got round to it. I've done it now, and added a little twist in light of this conversation.


tha_rami
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Posted: 16th Jun 2007 05:43
Quote: "You aren't doing a degree in art are you? That would be too flukey of me..."


Game Architecture and Design / Game Design & Development. Visual Artist. So I'd say, yes - I am .

Quote: "
haha. Well I'll just take the complement and shut up. Also, I was going to update my sig yesterday, but never got round to it. I've done it now, and added a little twist in light of this conversation.
"

I just totally LOVE your new sig.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 16th Jun 2007 09:12
@Fallout -
Quote: "I'd say, it's probably easier to get a movie made. At least you can just write a story and script and some producer might love it and go for it."

Good luck getting a producer to read an unsolicited script.


Come see the WIP!
Fallout
22
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Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 16th Jun 2007 11:35
Quote: "Good luck getting a producer to read an unsolicited script."


Thanks!

*Starts writing*




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