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Geek Culture / Sad news forAny WWE fans out there... (Chris Benoit)

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zenassem
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 14:05 Edited at: 26th Jun 2007 14:15
As some of you might have read... this story is truly sad. I remember Chris Benoit from WCW. Diamond Dallas Page etc...



The facts are coming out, and my brother was really taken back by the news. I found out on the 11:00pm news last night. Terrible that the family suffered as well.

SpyDaniel
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 15:10 Edited at: 26th Jun 2007 15:11
I honestly don't care, these WWE types are always faking their deaths and moves. They will do any thing to get out of the public eye, when they are fed up of it. I just don't trust them. at all.
Fallout
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 15:12 Edited at: 26th Jun 2007 15:14
@Higgins

lol. There is a slight difference between pretending to punch someone in the face on stage, and pretending to have murdered your family and committed suicide.

Sad news if it's accurate, but can't say I follow wrestling.


Van B
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 15:31
Murdered family!

Nah, they say murder/suicide, his family are fine apart from finding his body - quite a strange one though, suspicious circumstances and all that.

I can't say I'm a huge fan of WWE, and to be honest Chris Benoit was always one of those jerk wrestlers that nobody really liked - my fave wrestler is Stacey Kiebler, for a whole other set of reasons. It's not like this is Brett Heart all over again, at least there was no mystery surrounding his death, just a dent! .


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
zenassem
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 16:00
Not sure I understand Van B.

Everything points to the fact that he murdurded his Wife and 7 YO son early in the weekend, and took his own life I believe on Sunday/Monday.

Van B
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 16:03 Edited at: 26th Jun 2007 18:03
Ahh, see I miss read that bit sorry - I thought it said 'found BY his wife and 7-yo son', it was actually WITH them

That's pretty messed up.


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zenassem
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 16:06
Now I do have to wonder if it was a bit of ROID rage???? But yeah messed up indeed. Makes it hard to celebrate his life. Not sure what to make of it. Doesn't seem fitting to say Rest In Peace. found it very hard to even come up with a post.

Oolite
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 16:08
Again, its sad that this has happened to somebody, but i don't care for wrestling or its stars.


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MikeB
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 17:59
Van B I would have been slapped if I'd used that word :S.

This is very sad , but I can't stay sad for long, 9 puppies to look after!


Mike

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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 18:03 Edited at: 26th Jun 2007 18:14
What a noob. I don't have any sympathy for someone that would kill his own family.

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Van B
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 18:12
Ahh sorry about using half the letters of a swear word, edited it so that it won't cause any more bloodshed or ulcers.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 20:09
Killing his own family? That's just screwed up there - you can't have any real sympathy for the guy, I mean that's just wrong, you gotta feel sorry for his wife and kid, their friends and family. This is truly sad to hear, though many people do die in more brutal ways everyday - it is still sad and sickening.

As for wrestling, don't like it, I find most of the mainstream wrestlers with WWE etc. are just jerks - as this bit of news demonstrates. I'd rather watch real professional fighting with more down to earth people.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 21:13
Killing your wife, whatever, heat of passion, maybe she was cheating or something, that happens all the time. But this guy killed a 7 yo kid? That's disgusting and low, good riddance to this guy.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 21:53
It's pretty disgusting to kill your wife too Matt... Doesn't matter if it happens all the time.

I just can't believe how sick and cruel some people are though. I wouldn't care if he just offed himself, but I hate when people have to take it out on others...

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 23:16
suicide is the cheats and cowards way out. Doesn't mean I'm glad he's dead though,

Killing your wife and kids implies he wasn't right in the head...could this be why he killed them and himself? Not of sound mind?

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 23:17
Actually, Chris Benoit seemed to be a pretty down to earth guy to me. It seems that something snapped.

I don't watch wrestling anymore, but I used to be a big fan of it. The guys do everything they can to put on a good show. I have more respect for them than a lot of other athletes. It has to be a tough life.

It is being reported that he strangled his wife, then smothered his son. Both of these things happened on Sunday. He then hung himself on Monday.

I would bet that him and his wife got into a fight that got out of control. She used to be a wrestler too. I bet when they would fight... they would really fight. He then probably panicked and did the rest. Who knows though? In any case I feel bad for him and his family. RIP

Opposing force
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 23:51
Wrestling is rubbish! They don't really fight, it's all put on for show. They decide which wrestler wins before the match, and then they act it out. I only ever watched it once and the punches were really fake. Just think, if half of what these guys do was real, you would have many quadriplegic wrestlers around. Bye, bye celebrity life style. Boxing, now there's a real fight.

As for this chap, well, no pity from me if you killed your wife and son then took the coward's way out.

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 00:34
It's hard for me to believe he could strangle his wife and son from any type of rage. Maybe beat them to death or some such. It appears he just strangled them and then hung himself. Seems like foul play to me Now if they found some type of paranoid-otic drug in him I could see it.

Oolite
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 00:35
Quote: "They don't really fight, it's all put on for show. They decide which wrestler wins before the match, and then they act it out."

WHAT?! SINCE WHEN?

I never knew...


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zenassem
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 00:45 Edited at: 27th Jun 2007 00:45
Well some more news has been released. And as I suspected, they found steroids in the home. I know how sensitive and precious your body and minds health is. I'm not giving this guy any excuse, and I agree with much of what was sad. I really feel for his wife, son and the extended family.

Not that it makes much difference, but from the released statements this was not done in a sudden rage. Information just released states that he killed (most likely stabbing) his wife sometime Friday night. He then smothered is 7 yo son, sometime on Saturday. Finally took his own life (by hanging) late Satruday night early Sunday.

Ron Erickson
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 05:26
Quote: "Wrestling is rubbish! They don't really fight, it's all put on for show. They decide which wrestler wins before the match, and then they act it out."

You have no clue. Sure, fights are planned. The guys are glorified stuntmen. BUT... They put their bodies through more abuse than any other profession. Although things are planned as much as possible, they still take some rediculous falls. The fights are fake but that doesn't stop them from getting hurt. Most of them have my full respect.

Quote: "Well some more news has been released. And as I suspected, they found steroids in the home."

So? They all do it. No one else is killing their family. I'm not condoning steroid use, but I doubt that was the problem.

Quote: "Not that it makes much difference, but from the released statements this was not done in a sudden rage. Information just released states that he killed (most likely stabbing) his wife sometime Friday night. "

They have said that he strangled his wife. They probably got in a fight ( as they did often ) and it went to far. He probably grabbed her around the neck and accidently crushed her wind pipe. He was probably unsure what to do next. His wife was dead, and he knew he was going to either kill himself or spend the rest of his life in jail. He probably thought ( wrongly ) that the child would be better off dead than to have to live through losing his mother and father at 7 years old. So, he waited till the child was asleep and smothered him with a pillow. The child probably never knew that the mother was dead. He then took his own life the next day by hanging himself.
The guy screwed up. Then, it snow balled into more bad decisions. He was cornered and reacted wrongly. If he was still alive, I would want justice to be done and for him to be executed. Still, I feel bad for what happened. I think he was a good man that had a very bad moment.

Don Malone
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 06:34 Edited at: 27th Jun 2007 06:35
Unconfirmed fact from the Atlanta Journal Constitution: It was stated that his wife ( a former Valet and Manager, but not a wrestler) was bound hand and foot. That makes for a hard to contemplate series of events (if true).

His wife (Nancy Daus, Nancy Sullivan, Nancy Benoit, fallen Angel, Woman, what ever I may have missed) had filed for divorce, at one time had a restraining order on Benoit (AJC), but dropped the order. Benoit was trying to get full custody of his seven year old son

http://www.ajc.com/search/content/shared-gen/ap/National/Wrestler_Dead.html

It sure is hard to understand, but adds another exclamation point to how bad steroids can be; assuming that they were a contributing factor.

Making nothing for the forth straight year.

FredP
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 06:52
Here are the facts about this as I have them at the moment.I have been following this closely.
This is a terrible tragedy...whether he was a wrestler or not has nothing to do with that.
He called WWE on Saturday and said his wife and child were ill and he had to stay with them.
He tied up his wife and strangled her on Saturday and left a bible next to her body.
WWE tried to contact Benoit on Sunday morning to make sure he would be at the Vengeance pay per view since he was involved in the ECW World Heavyweight Title match and nobody answered the phone on Sunday.
He killed his child on Sunday and left a bible next to his body as well.
On Monday Chris hung himself in his weight room.
On Monday WWE called the local police and asked them to check on Chris and his family and the police contacted WWE at 4 p.m. to tell them that Chris,his wife and his son had passed away.
At 10 p.m. last night the police held a press conference confirming a double murder/suicide.
All day various horrid details have been released.
This is a horrible tragedy and it makes no difference whether he was a wrestler or not.My heart goes out to all those members of their families and friends who have to endure this.
And my apologies if it seems this is a bit graphic.

Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 08:11
Quote: "Doesn't mean I'm glad he's dead though,"

I am, someone like that deserves worse than death in my opinion.


Thraxas
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 08:58
Quote: "I am, someone like that deserves worse than death in my opinion.
"


He was obviously mentally disturbed... You should pity him, not condemn him... It's a very sad turn of events, one where we will never know what truly happened so everything you hear will simply be what others tell you from what they can piece together...
Van B
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 09:24
Pity the 7 yo son, not him - he was clearly a freakin nut-job.


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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 09:32
Too bad he didn't start with himself when he started killing.

Quote: "You should pity him, not condemn him..."

I think that would be true if he'd just killed himself. He's very condemnable since he killed his child and wife.


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Thraxas
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 09:37
Quote: "He's very condemnable since he killed his child and wife."


Yes but what state of mind do you need to be in, in order to commit such an atrocious act... He obviously had serious problems, so I do pity him (and the rest of his family)...
FredP
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 09:45
Obviously the man was mentally ill.While this does not excuse his actions I think the focus here should now be on the surviving people who have to live with this tragedy.The people that the three of them knew and that they left behind.They are the ones we should be worried about.
I do not condone what he did or what happened but neither is it my place to judge.
The saddest part of this (other than the actual tragedy and the loss of life and,as I stated earlier,the families and close friends that were left behind) is that more details keep surfacing.
None of them have been pretty.
And,of course,WWE has decided to try to remove every trace of him from their company...a true insult to his survivng family,friends and any wrestling fan.
I don't expect the WWE or anybody else to condone what happened but what they are doing now is hypocrisy.
And Chris Benoit was a true rarity in the wrestling business...he was an actual wrestler...and one of the best.
Stay tuned to the news,folks...it's just going to get worse.

skriot
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 18:11
Yes I'm a huge wwe fan.

Benoit killed his family then smothered his son the next day.

then he hung himself in the weight room.
its in my local paper

Hi
FredP
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 18:19
Yep.It just keeps getting worse.The more details they release the more morbid it becomes.I have been following this and it's a sad thing to happen.WWE has even resorted to confiscating the signs of fans that contain anthing about Benoit.What's really sad is I think it's going to get much,much worse.Deatails about domestic violence and other details are coming out and there is a high probability that this tragedy could have been prevented.The steroids found in the house were more likely given to his son who had a medical defect.Maybe soon there will be more answers but don't bet the farm on it.I don't think we'll ever know exactly waht happened and why.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 20:19
Quote: "He was obviously mentally disturbed... You should pity him, not condemn him"

I don't pity someone who kills his family no matter what mental state they are in. If someone is that mentally disturbed they shouldn't be out in society in the first place.

Quote: "He obviously had serious problems, so I do pity him (and the rest of his family)..."

And someone like him (fame and money) has no reason not to get those problems treated before it's too late.


FredP
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 20:51
So we damn someone with an illness that is not responsible for his behavior?What about the people in society that did or might have known there was a problem and did nothing about it.I said I in no way excuse his behavior but I personally believe that he was severely mentally ill at the time this happened.
There was his employer,co-workers,family members,etc. who had to know there was some kind of problem.
But you know what they are going to do and have already done?Sweep it under the carpet and pretend it goes away so it repeats itself.
So this or one of those "heart atacks" (read:drug overdose) keeps happening.
Tragedies like this are preventable.There are warning signs.If you buddy starts walking around with a black sheet around him and a scythe in his hand he has serious issues.Just an anology.
We can blame the man or hate him or pity him but in the end it will do none of us any good.Three people are dead and there's not a damned thing anybody can do about it now.
This is an example of how turning a blind eye to serious problems results in stuff like this.
I don't disagree with your point of view necessarily...I just think something need to come out of this to try to prevent it from happening again.


Please have mercy and use the search function.
Thraxas
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 01:45
Quote: "If someone is that mentally disturbed they shouldn't be out in society in the first place."


Get off your moral high horse...

My brother has a mental illness, does that mean he shouldn't be allowed out in society?

Quote: "And someone like him (fame and money) has no reason not to get those problems treated before it's too late."


Wow... what a generalisation... Since when did money and fame ever make them more able to get help for their problems:

Kurt Cobain had money and fame.
Elvis had money and fame.
Marilyn Monroe had fame and money.
Jim Morrison, Judy Garland, Bon Scott, Sid Vicious, John Belushi, Chris Farley, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, River Phoenix, Tony Hancock.... the list could go on (and on)... ALL these people (and more) had money and fame but it did them no good.

I do find it quite sad that you are glad he is dead. No matter what the circumstances no joy should ever come from someone's death!
Jeku
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 03:48 Edited at: 28th Jun 2007 03:49
Quote: "My brother has a mental illness, does that mean he shouldn't be allowed out in society? "


If he's disturbed enough to make him capable of killing his family, YES.

As far as I can tell all of those celebs you named were alcoholics or drug addicts. Not really the mentally disturbed type. I do NOT pity River Phoenix for OD'ing, even though he was a brilliant actor. He didn't have to touch the coke in the first place, now did he. Nobody held a gun to Kurt Cobain's head (no pun intended) and told him to get super famous, and thus depressed.

Thraxas
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 06:22 Edited at: 28th Jun 2007 06:25
I never said they were mentally disturbed!

Quote: "And someone like him (fame and money) has no reason not to get those problems treated before it's too late."


I named all those people because they were rich and famous... they had problems... did their fame and money make them more able to get help with those problems... No it didn't... Fame and money does not put you in any better a position to get help...

[EDIT]
For those of you that may think I'm trying to defend his actions or in any way say that what he did wasn't atrocious.... I'm not...
[/EDIT]
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 06:29
Quote: "My brother has a mental illness, does that mean he shouldn't be allowed out in society? "

No, like Jeku said, if he is mentally disturbed enough that he would kill his own family, then yes, you twisted what I said.

Quote: "Wow... what a generalisation... Since when did money and fame ever make them more able to get help for their problems:"

That's because they chose, like him, not to seek help. I'm saying that people like him have the money and fame to get a top level psychologist or doctor with no problem.

Quote: "I do find it quite sad that you are glad he is dead. No matter what the circumstances no joy should ever come from someone's death!"

It's not joy, it's just not sadness or pity .


zenassem
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 07:22 Edited at: 28th Jun 2007 07:25
To me the story is sad for everyone involved, and for society as a whole. These stories are tragic and have an impact. We may never know fully all the circumstances surrounding this tragedy. In my opinion, I agree with FredP. I think it's obvious he was disturbed, and unfortunately made some bad decisions, and committed unnecessary horrible acts on innocent members of his family, and that pain will not go away for the many people this will effect. I would not condone or excuse his actions. He's gone, and there is nothing else that can be done.

I will never fully be able to understand why these things happen in society. These circumstances do not care about financial status, fame, race, sex... It's a truly unfortunate part of society, and of the worst kind. One thing we as a society can do, is try to learn from these instances, and perhaps see the warning signs and possibly prevent it happening to the people we love.

Regardless if he was a wrestiling entertainer... he was someones son. And his family, was someones daughter/grandson, sibling, friend, loved one. These types of crimes will never make sense, at least to me. I feel for everyone involved including Benoit himself. Not in the sense that I don't understand he ultimately was 100% responsible, I get that. But it's obvious that anyone who commits this type of act is also suffereing some serious issues. That doesn't mean that I think what he did was right, or even one ounce acceptable. Do I wish that he would have gotten himself help? Yes. Or if nothing could help, that if he was going to take life... it would be his alone? Yes.

If I had to pass judgement, I would condemn him and say that he was a coward and acted like a horrible monster. But Even that won't change the outcome. So rather than that, I think our humanity tends to treat the entire scenario, as one large tragedy for everyone involved. Of course I have more sympathy for the innocent lives he took. But overall, I'm just sad that we have to bear witness to anything like this happening - at all - ever!

Thraxas
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 09:10
Quote: "That's because they chose, like him, not to seek help."


Or they didn't think they had a problem in the first place...

I understand where you're coming from and what you're saying so I think it's time we agree to disagree...
Van B
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 09:33
Quote: "Fame and money does not put you in any better a position to get help..."


You mean the Betty Ford clinic is free?

I'm not sure, but it seems everyone assumes he has mental health problems, where is this coming from? - where's the evidence?. There's evidence of drug use but AFAIK details are still sketchy on that, my point is that he was a professional wrestler, if he had any sort of mental condition at all they would have kicked him out of the WWE.

But to be honest, I think even calling it a mental health problem is a stretch and frankly an offense to people with mental conditions - he killed his family, what does that get filed under?
Nut Job.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
FredP
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 09:46
I think we are all going to have our own opinions and judgements on this and I don't think any two or more of us will agree on everything about this.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Dazzag
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 10:06 Edited at: 28th Jun 2007 10:07
I remember once my Granddad was working behind the bar in his local pub, and a bloke walked in that everyone knew (small place). This bloke had pretty much walked into that bar almost every night for a couple of pints since at least a decade earlier. Everyone thought the bloke was alright, enjoyed his company, and didn't think much else about it. This night my Granddad said he was a bit quiet, and didn't get involved much in the local conversations. Then after his usual couple of pints the bloke said good night and went home.

Anyway, it turned out the bloke went home, got his shotgun out, then proceeded to kill his family. Can't remember exactly what happened, but I think the kids were killed, as were the mother's parents, and the wife was shot in the head and left for dead. The bloke then killed himself. Amazingly the woman survived but was really disfigured. The bloke was clinically depressed I believe.

On the other hand my dad is a manic depressive and we had all that comes with that as a kid. Everything from Air force mental health hospitals for breakdowns to having to take that drug they give to crazy people that I forget the name of. But not once did my dad do anything violent.

My point is it is not always that obvious.

Cheers

Ps. I know it sounds a bit wrong, but growing up with a manic depressed dad does actually have some advantages. Ok, so Xmas normally sucks, but manic depressives have cycles where for short periods that are like overly happy for no reason. This included the time where my dad increased my pocket money to much higher than the average, and another time when my dad got me some salad cream because he knew I loved it. An industrial sized jar of salad cream. Like one that doesn't fit in the fridge and would require a mountain of tuna sarnies to finish off. Still, I loved that as a kid Crazy illness (my landlord had the same thing and apparently when he had a breakdown he left postit type notes everywhere saying "Help me")...

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 10:38 Edited at: 28th Jun 2007 10:39
Quote: "And someone like him (fame and money) has no reason not to get those problems treated before it's too late.
"


The problem is even with all the money in the world, mental illness can lie undiscovered for years. (if he was mentally ill that is)


Quote: "Ps. I know it sounds a bit wrong, but growing up with a manic depressed dad does actually have some advantages."


Yeah, my wife's mum has manic depression, it really came out when her husband died. The highs were all right until she started spending all her money and doing crazy things like disappearing around Europe for days without telling anyone. She has calmed down a lot now, the swings arnt as high or low but they seem just as frequent.
As well as this my brother in law has Schizophrenia . His medication works well, but because of the years that he suffered, he is very withdrawn and nervous.

The thing is my mother in laws depression wasn't diagnosed until she was about 50 and my brother in laws schizophrenia wasnt diagnosed for a couple of years and even then the medication for 4 or 5 years was poorly administered (oral) and if you told him he was schizophrenic he would flat out deny it despite the fact he would cover the ir on the telly with tape and swear people were following him.
So getting back to the first quote. Sometimes it IS too late before they realise they have a problem because they are not always the first to admit it.

Seppuku Arts
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Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 28th Jun 2007 10:57
Quote: "My brother has a mental illness, does that mean he shouldn't be allowed out in society? "


Only if he harms people, my uncle has one too, he has been locked up for attacking people then afterwards is put back into the mental hospital - and he was let back out earlier this year - because he's shown that he'll behave.

Though with this guy, if he was indeed mental, people probably should have seen symptons sooner and saw to it, though this guy was a druggy, it may have been less predictable for what kind of thing he'd do, I think he did steriods and they can make people aggressive, so I guess that's what it could have been, when he realise what he had done, perhaps that's why he hung himself. So really you can't have sympathy for him, I mean he shouldn't have taken the drugs in the first place. If it is a mental illness - for him to have no strength against it would surely mean that he was seriously ill and therefore noticeable beforehand, I mean even schizophrenia is something you can notice before it's dangerous - so I guess if that's the case (which I doubt) then someone should have tried to get him help.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 11:09
Quote: "The thing is my mother in laws depression wasn't diagnosed until she was about 50"
Yeah, completely sucks when it is left without diagnosis for years. I didn't really realise as a kid, but when I was old enough (about 10) I asked my mother when he became a manic depressive. She said he had *always* been that way, but it took years before the Air force diagnosed it. Once he got the correct treatment (still can't remember the name, but is a Nirvana song and the same thing they give to completely insane people to basically average out all their emotions) he was a lot better. Even then though he had episodes (everything from claiming you aren't actually his son to claiming he had stomach cancer - all lies).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Van B
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 11:16
Lithium?


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Oraculaca
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Location: Scotland
Posted: 28th Jun 2007 11:19 Edited at: 28th Jun 2007 11:20
Lithium?

edit damn you beat me, I answered the phone, lol

zenassem
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Location: Long Island, NY
Posted: 28th Jun 2007 11:20
Sometimes the prescription medication has worse side effects than the original problem. Also, prescriptions tend to mask problems rather than treating the root cause. I've been down that road for 10 years. Finally went to A Certified Dietary Nutritionist, and am feeling 100% on natural supplements, and completely off all medication. Medication that had undesireable side effects, and that I had been off and on for nearly 10 years.

Dazzag
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 11:21
Yeah, thats the one. I was thrown because for some reason I thought it started with an "S". Fixated on Sezium for some reason (isn't that the one that blows up on contact with water?).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Dazzag
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 11:28
Quote: "Sometimes the prescription medication has worse side effects than the original problem"
Well with my Dad it made him a lot better. Was almost impossible to live with otherwise. On the other hand he hated the tablets because apparently it made him not quite with it and his reactions were lowered. Plus the drug makes you average out all your emotions. You never get that depressed, but you never get all that happy either. Eternal "meh" basically. But he took it because he knew it was better for the family.

Totally agree with you though about bad medicine though. I know several people getting the wrong medicine for years before changing to something else and magically they are a lot better. I had one doctor that essentially just kept giving me random creams for Excema until one worked and didn't cause burning. Git. Soon chucked that rubbish and used the company private health plan. Much better. Didn't grump about doing tests, even offered you coffee and food while you waited, nice chairs etc. And the doctor wasn't a ****. After my flat mate was a doctor in college I seriously have no respect for a lot of them. Oh, the stories....

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."

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