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FPS Creator X10 / Vista Is it worth it?

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TEST OF WILL
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 00:51
Well I am think of getting this, but is it worth it to get vista can I use milkshape still and FPS DX9? Ahh...I don't know which to choose!
Silent Thunder
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 09:43
I hate vista......



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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 13:39
Vista, for a better word, is ....Poo.

Microsoft have renamed most applications, moved them around, so in all, making your job harder to do, instead of their "ease of use" saying.

From Windows 95 to XP, the names and layouts have stayed the same. So for some weird and wonderful reason, they decided to change all that and make it hell to navigate.

All that, plus some things do not work with vista. For example, my brother who has the vista machine, bought a usb wifi adapter. I then installed this for him and guess what, vista couldn't install it correctly. I tried different things and it still wouldn't install or work.

We then bought a pci adapter, which worked fine.

So all in all, Vista is awful.

Veron
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 14:46
Hmm, do you actually own Vista Higgins or Silent Thunder?

I've got Vista Home Premium, and it works perfectly. The new Aero interface is nice on the eyes, and almost all of my old applications apart from a few work nicely on Vista, and, for those applications, I dual-boot XP and Vista.

But, it's really up to you.

TEST OF WILL - What i'd reccomend is to download the Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor (Google it) and let it scan your system. It tells you what you'll need to upgrade to run Vista, and, what programs won't work under Vista.

Good luck!


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TEST OF WILL
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 20:15
Quote: "I dual-boot XP and Vista."


How Do You do that?
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 20:35
Quote: "Hmm, do you actually own Vista Higgins or Silent Thunder?"


If you had been bothered to read my post, you would have known we have Vista on one of our computers..... sigh.

TEST OF WILL
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 20:40
Opposing force
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 20:46
Quote: "You could have gotten DirectX 10 for Windows XP "



Yeah, but the graphics card needed to run FPSC X10 can only be used with Vista...

TEST OF WILL
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 21:00
Quote: "Yeah, but the graphics card needed to run FPSC X10 can only be used with Vista..."


Not true the Nvidia 8000 serious does not need Windows Vista It's Compatible with it though
Cheese Cake
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 21:04
In my opinion i think Vista isnt that great.

Most of my apps doesnt work anymore, i also had to throw away my wireless internet connection and than buy a new one.
You have to get used to the new interface or at least i had to.


But okey x10 thats just great so i had to buy Vista for x10.
Silent Thunder
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 22:30
Quote: "Hmm, do you actually own Vista Higgins or Silent Thunder?"

Yes I do, and it is a huge pain...... Aside from the fact that the only XP program out of about 14 that I tested that worked was Halo, it's ok...


Quote: "How Do You do that?"

You need to partition your hard drive to allow for two operating systems.



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TEST OF WILL
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 22:47
Quote: "You need to partition your hard drive to allow for two operating systems. "


How do I do that Well my new computer will have vista on it so If I install Windows XP on it I need to make a new folder on my C Drive and install XP there and if I want is there a way to change the system at times? please post a link to how to do it or something
Silent Thunder
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Posted: 16th Jul 2007 00:58
Google up a tutorial on how to dual boot vista and xp, it will tell you everything you need to know.



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TGPEG
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2007 15:51
Quote: "How do I do that Well my new computer will have vista on it so If I install Windows XP on it I need to make a new folder on my C Drive and install XP there and if I want is there a way to change the system at times? please post a link to how to do it or something "

You need a hard drive partition. Or another hard drive. The first one's cheaper, but it will require that you copy/destroy all the contents of your hard drive and then re-format it. Basically, when you're computer turns on it wll offer you a number of OS's to boot up. Easy, not.

Your signature has been deleted due to the fact that it was far too humourous to possibly show.
http://www.fpsinsane.co.nr/ -New FPSC Forums By Jenkins
Nickydude
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 02:15
Quote: "but it will require that you copy/destroy all the contents of your hard drive and then re-format it."


Not necessarily, Partition Magic will partition your hard drive without destroying anything.


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Veron
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 11:59
Quote: "Not necessarily, Partition Magic will partition your hard drive without destroying anything."


Same with GParted.


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TGPEG
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Posted: 7th Aug 2007 00:15
Well now you tell me! I had to spend hours copying to DVDs when I could have go that.
Well that's just made my day that has.

Your signature has been stolen. If you ever want to see it again, come to the cemetary and bring £500,000, oh, and can you get us some cake?
http://www.fpsinsane.co.nr/
Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 7th Aug 2007 00:44
Vista own!

Since I bought Vista my PC is working faster and I don't have any error message with it like I had everyday with XP and also I can now use my 4GB of Ram, in XP I only could use 2 GB (XP 32bits do not recognize more than 2GB).

By the way, if vista do not recognize some of your hardware (like somebody said here) don't blame vista or Microsoft, blame the manufacturer of your hardware for not doing drivers for Windows Vista, if they don't have Drivers for Vista is their fault! more simple impossible...

Im using Vista Ultimate 64 Bits

Intel Pentium core 2 duo T6600 2,6 mhz 4mb, 4 gb ram 600 mhz ddr2, ATI X1650 radeon
Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Posted: 8th Aug 2007 00:06
Quote: "I hate vista"

Me 2

Quote: "Vista, for a better word, is ....Poo."

I agree, the Networking aspects really stink.

Quote: "Partition Magic will partition your hard drive without destroying anything."

Thanks for the tip about Partition Magic.

Quote: "Same with GParted."

Thanks for that one too.
I'll have to look into it.

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment
BMB
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Posted: 9th Aug 2007 04:30
@Sopo the tocho
Same here. I agree with everything you just said.

Silent Thunder
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Posted: 9th Aug 2007 10:47 Edited at: 9th Aug 2007 10:48
Quote: "I can now use my 4GB of Ram"
Quote: "Since I bought Vista my PC is working faster "


Not everyone has 4GB of RAM, also, if anything, vista is much slower than XP, except in certain situations.



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Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 9th Aug 2007 16:46 Edited at: 9th Aug 2007 16:47
Quote: "if anything, vista is much slower than XP"
Would you say "W-xp its slower than W-98 or W-me"?
when it was release in first time some people said so, can you say that now? I don't think so...

I call that "windows phobia" or "new O.S syndrome" and the new Vista its not slower, it just require better equipment, like every new O.S, some people call that "progress" others just swear...

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Strelok
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Posted: 9th Aug 2007 22:21
guy guys... For now is Vista a poor thing with lots of bugs.
But you realy have to wait for Vista SP 1.
Vista is the future ...

Take a look at this link

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Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 9th Aug 2007 23:16
Bugs? I didn't had any, had you test it?
I had been using Vista for long now, everything smooth and fast all the time, no incompatibilities and no errors and my PC its on 24h 7 days a week (sure there are some bugs, like in every new software but I didn't had any). Maybe I'm a lucky guy, and I´m the only one who have Vista running smooth and fast, who knows...

I'm owner of a recording studio (thats why I have 4 gb ram in my PC) here in spain, and believe me I really need stability in my Workstation...
In my opinion the guys from Microsoft did they homework this time.

By the way, I cant understand why people still using 32 bits O.S in dual core CPUs, they are wasting half of the power of the CPU...


PS: I don't work for Microsoft.

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BMB
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Posted: 10th Aug 2007 01:45
Quote: "Maybe I'm a lucky guy, and I´m the only one who have Vista running smooth and fast, who knows..."

No, you're not.

And I'll be honest with everyone here. Vista is no more buggy than XP. In fact for me it is less buggy. Vista runs much better on my PC than XP. All the rumors about it being buggy are normally from people who:
a) have less than the required specs.
b) just used one of the old betas so of course there will be problems.
c) Hate Microsoft and love spreading rumors
d) have never used it and been misinformed by rumors themselves.

In fact the ONLY problem I've had with Vista is my printer drivers not working with Vista and an old unsupported program not working in it's entirety. But that is not the fault of the OS and/or Microsoft. That is the fault of my printer's manufacturer for not supporting my printer anymore with up-to-date drivers and out-of-date software.

Fruitless CRUNK
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Posted: 16th Aug 2007 17:07 Edited at: 16th Aug 2007 17:09
Ok I have Vista on my pc. And I wouldn't get it unless you haft too. They renamed EVERYTHANG and is just not stable to run many gameshardware. But sence the new updates everythang has gone vary well. In other words I'm not hitting my pc in hope that I'll knock some sence into it.

If anyone has Xbox live please add me to you're frinds list.
My tag is FruitlessCRUNK, but tell me who you are through a message.
Mickm
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Posted: 16th Aug 2007 17:14
I decided not to post anything awhile ago on this topic as people should find out on their own... but here goes my 2cents.

I have no problems on Vista when running any games, development tools or game development tools.

I have been running vista for awhile. It all depends on what your computer specifications are. You never want to just have the minimum requirements. Go get GTA or something and play the minimum requirements with that and tell me you don't have problems.

They have taken the next step and put in security (like linux) some things (older programs) need to run under administrator ($root) because they do not save files in the proper place.

If you want to know if its worth it look for the specific hardware and or games / tools you will be using and look for bugs that people have found with them.

Once again, I have Vista on my computer and XP on my laptop / another computer. Vista in my opinion is worth it. You just need the hardware for it.

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Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 16th Aug 2007 17:22
Quote: "Once again, I have Vista on my computer and XP on my laptop / another computer. Vista in my opinion is worth it. You just need the hardware for it."


The best sentence in this thread so far.

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Deathead
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Posted: 19th Aug 2007 03:46
Quote: "For now is Vista a poor thing with lots of bugs."
What bugs! I have no bugs at all. Vista is great and worth it. Just because ppl say it has bugs it don't yeah it is over the top with security but that is a good thing or we'll all have pesky hackers on our computers.

Slayer222
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Posted: 1st Sep 2007 00:28
I don't have vista but the whole it's buggy and glitchy thing is probably just a nasty rumor like the Xbox 360 overheating thing. People seem to usually prefer to slander things they have never seen before rather than facing the fact that it is probably fine or even good. I know that the rumours won't stop me from getting Vista and X10, then again not much will
*Slayer_2

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chaos warrior
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Posted: 10th Sep 2007 21:35
Quote:You could have gotten DirectX 10 for Windows XP

http://www.technospot.net/blogs/download-directx-10-for-windows-xp-from-alky-project

There gives a lot of people who have tried to amke dx10 no-vista only,but they had either one of these problems:1)it simply faled to work(they had an error message)
2)It was a cut version which didn't have all of the dx10 features,because they had to remove some so that they don't become the error message(see 1)...
Advancement Games
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 19:47
I use Linux and emulate DarkBasic Pro with WINE, however, I do not think that there is any DX10 emulation in WINE. I tried Vista, hated it, and I am glad that I am using linux and can still work with DBP.
Deathead
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 20:51
@Advancement Games: Why hate vista. Its no different to linux or anyother stuff you use. And I have DBPro working on my computer(it has vista) morrowind, Zbrush, Blender, FPS Creator. And it still works as quick as you can say cheese.

Advancement Games
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 07:05
Vista does not work. It took me 3 days to setup wireless just because it did not want to cooperate. On linux, 3 minutes. Vista takes up about 600mb ram using nothing on a good day, and when i am running a few basic apps, near a gig. With Linux, it will take up about 100mb ram with nothing running, 150 for some basic apps, sometimes 200. I do not need to worry about an influx of viruses on Linux, but on XP I did. Also, DRM is crap.
Gooney
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 11:09
Fact is that Vista has a learning curve. Its not like the previous windows versions. Vista has completely new ways of "protecting" the end user from doing stupid things that end up screwing their installation. The cost of these changes is that it makes a "power" user go through a number of hoops to regain the "freedom" that they had become accustomed to in earlier versions.

Vista and DX10 are based on a completely new development concept related to .Net framework, new security, new message handling etc. This means that Vista is essentially a paradigm shift.

In windows you will have 2 eras, everything before Vista and everything after Vista. Don't fool yourself, if you are going to work with MS at all you will be on Vista or whatever comes after.

Vista is to windows what Dos was to Windows, it really is that big of a change.

So regardless of your personal opinions it is very much a case of just getting used to it or leaving the windows world. This is especially true if you intend to use or play any DX10 games.

Having said that, there is no real reason to leave XP at this time, I wouldn't upgrade unless you are getting Vista with a new machine. There will be at least a couple of years before Vista is the dominant version of windows this is because XP works fine and people upgrade hardware about every 3rd year.

-Gooney

Uboats in space...hmmmm. Aces of the Vaccuum?
Veron
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 12:46
Quote: "Fact is that Vista has a learning curve. Its not like the previous windows versions. Vista has completely new ways of "protecting" the end user from doing stupid things that end up screwing their installation. The cost of these changes is that it makes a "power" user go through a number of hoops to regain the "freedom" that they had become accustomed to in earlier versions."


This can be disabled with 1 click.


Samoz83
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 14:00
Quote: "It took me 3 days to setup wireless"


how?!? You just plug in your adaptor and let it download the drives and then select the network i have done it like 50 times now and each time its worked.

www.firelightstudio.co.uk
Raven
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 15:33
This is one of the more retarded threads I've ever seen.
Lots of hear'say and rumour mongering from people who quite frankly don't use Vista.

Don't bullcrap about using it, because frankly if you're experiencing major issues then you've obviously done dumbass things yourself.

Vista is 100% compatible with legacy WDM (Windows 2000/XP) Drivers for everything except graphics and processors. As these aspects were completely rebuilt in a way that is incompatible.

When installing new hardware, on a default set-up it will ask you "do you want Windows to search for new drivers automatically?"; if you click on this then it will search on the online database. Some will then install from Microsoft Reference, if there is no Reference driver then it will provide you with a link to the website for that hardware component.

Networking is a breeze, why? Because it's a simple case of plug-in, install drivers (WinXP in most cases) then watch as Vista automatically sets everything up for you. Don't try to BS me saying it doesn't work that way out of the box, because I've recently installed Vista on 4machines for family members within the last week.. that doesn't use the "installer upgrades" that you can select. This is from release Retail DVD (February 2007).

Belkin, Linksys, and Netgear USB WiFi Adapters, not only detected but installed their drivers automatically (Wireless G 54Mbps) for all except the Belkin one. The drivers for that XP v4, installed and run without issue.. this is connecting to a Linksys and Belkin router/hub.

Given somewhere in the region of 90% of all WiFi hardware is from those three manufacturers and work with their reference drivers, and Vista will detect this fact and recommend them.

What's more is while yes, Vista has less reference drivers for hardware than XP.. the fact it detects the driver requirements and can run XP drivers this is a completely moot issue.

Performance wise. My primary system has been running Vista since Beta 2 (August 2006) and has only been upgraded in February to retail Ultimate. I've not had to reinstall due to issues since.
There has been no performance degredation, in-fact the complete opposite. The system will boot to login within 10seconds (15-60sec if an update has to be configured), loading my user account and note that this also has to load quite a huge amount of services on boot; like Steam, LiveOneCare, BitTorrent (DNA), Messenger, AOL (Gateway Service), Bonjour, Apple Quicklaunch, ReadyBoost, SpeedCache, IIS7, Visual Studio Developer Environment, XDK Developer Environment, Adobe Quicklaunch, Maya/Renderman Render Server, Media Center Background, Live for Windows Games, Media Player QuickLoad, Alcohol 52% DVD-Emulator.

I'm probably missing something, but that's a fairly extreme boot load compared to most peoples systems. Most of which is quite resource heavy.

Yet surprising unlike the Windows XP (just installed) boot time of 5minutes, it loads in under a minute EVERYTHING. Oh and just to reiterate this is after ONE YEAR, still getting decent performance.

And don't think this is because I'm running it one some super charged system. This system current hardware specs is:

Athlon64 X2 3800+ (recently upgraded from Semperon 2800+, and oddly enough very very little performance enhancement)
1GB DDR2 667MHz Memory
GeForce 6100 (on-board 256MB dedicated memory, further 128MB shared)
Western Digital 250GB SATAII (3.0Gb/s)

It's hardly what you'd call a "power house" computer, and in-fact would cost people under £200 to build.

Performance wise, this system is also kept upto date regularly (daily check); while it originally wasn't exactly impressive needing slightly extra resources over XP to perform the same, this has dropped to about equal. This said Service Pack 1, SERIOUSLY improves this. It now runs on the whole a damn sight quicker than XP which has been the fastest gaming Windows to-date.

As for program compatibility, game-wise the only ones I've had problems with are OpenGL games that search for specific EXT_ARB aspects. Due to Vista OpenGL 2.1 driver only supports basic, so without a seperate ICD (like what graphics drivers should come with) itdoesn't detect that it can do things.

Good example is Prenumbre doesn't run, simply because it forces specific extensions to say they're available via OGL rather than via the driver. Doom 3 however which uses much more complex extensions runs just fine.

Desktop Applications and DirectX games, I've not had a single one fail to load in months. There are a few that still need compatibility settings, but most I've found require me to limit them to a single processor (core).

Put simply, if you want to use Vista.. ignore what people claim about it. It is by far the best Windows to date, with far more back compatibility than ever. (Anyone remember the issues moving from Win9x OS to WinNT5 (2000/XP) OS? No, well then try some older programs.. because compatibility was close to nil back with that one.)
If you're going to piss about with the settings always make sure you know what you're doing. Just leave it with default setup and in general you won't get the stupid issues others do.

Deathead
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 16:56
@Raven: I agree with you. And BTW I'm using vista. And as funny as it seems I had all my games from 1998 works on this.

Advancement Games
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 18:31
Vista is a power hungry OS. Even by sliming it down I found problems. And no, Vista would not go to the installer to install my drivers. And when it detected them, I kept getting limited connectivity. Then I tried getting my network settings from the comp that is connected to the router to my comp, and it was still giving me a bunch of bull. That is when I moved to a dual boot with Win2k and Linux.
Gooney
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 18:33
Ya, I should have added that I've personally been running Vista with no problems whatsoever for about a half year now. I got Vista pre-installed on a Dell I bought.

I agree with Raven that it is the best Windows so far, its just different from a security, programming, and administration point of view. In my personal opinion Vista is better in all of these respects than previous versions.

I am not now, nor have I ever been "religious" about operating systems, games, tools or anything else computer related, I try to use the best (most stable, easiest to use) stuff I can get that meets my requirements.

I work with VMS, Linux/Unix (Red Hat and Solaris), and Windows, everything from single node servers to multi-node, multi-site clusters. Every system has its ups and downs, Vista is no different, but from a personal home computer point of view its rock stable and should be better with the coming SP.

I do not regret choosing Vista at all.

-Gooney

Uboats in space...hmmmm. Aces of the Vaccuum?
Advancement Games
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 23:24
WTF you nub. Vista is a resource eater, it has many incompatibilities at the moment, and its networking sucks. I'm sorry, but I think that there is something wrong if you think Vista is the best Windows out there. Win2k is my vote.
Deathead
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 23:31
@Advancement Games: We all have our own oppinions. Vista is the best of course you idiot If you stick XP you'll never be-able to play the games which come out. Which sadly will be Vista only. We are going to have better Graphics in games, film industuries will need fast applications to make their films.XP will die. Along with ME and 2000. Linux sucks bawls. And Networking on vista is great it took me a second to connect my belkin into my computer and vista picked it right up. I think someone didn't have vista.

Advancement Games
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 23:33
I had vista for four months, then installed XP, of which I did not like...again. Then I installed Linux, and it works fine. Vista is not exactly the future. You can't produce something faster if you have no resources to produce it with...nubs.
Samoz83
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Posted: 17th Sep 2007 00:27
you seem to be the nub at least everyone else can plug in the wireless network adapter and get it to work

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Advancement Games
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Posted: 17th Sep 2007 01:17
I can do that, I've done it before. Vista was giving me s.hit about it, so I dropped it and went for linux, in which I plugged my wireless in and it detected it during install.
Mickm
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Posted: 17th Sep 2007 02:58
I don't think we need to start an OS war here.

Vista will work if you have the hardward for it. If you do not then upgrade or stick to XP and miss out on FPS Creator X10.

Point and Fact.

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BMB
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Posted: 17th Sep 2007 04:34
Quote: "There has been no performance degredation, in-fact the complete opposite."

Same here. Start up is much faster for me on Vista than it ever was on XP.

Quote: "Put simply, if you want to use Vista.. ignore what people claim about it. It is by far the best Windows to date."

agreed.

Game Beetle
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 20:30
I am really starting to enjoy vista i think its a great piece of software "as long as it comes with a pre-built machine though" at first i thought it was complete junk but now realizing after using it for a while, its not that bad, or as bad as people said it would be.

It is worth it but"save your self the trouble and buy it ready on a pre-built machine"

Cheers
Nick
Squelchy Tom
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 21:01
well just built my own pc with vista home pro (was going to go for basic but pro was only £10 more :/)

my first impression was that it looked like xp but more shiny, the 3d program display thing was a nice addition and it feels kind of cozy, but sadly they have renamed everything and moved it around making it really hard to use. I was angry that none of my xp games would work, but i found out that it has 2 versions of "program files" and i found the one with the exe (xp used only one program files folder so it splits it in vista) and they all run fine.

It will be slow if you dont have 1 gig+ ram so keep that in mind.

But for x10 it think its well worth it. Remember, everyone sooner or later will have to adopt vista.

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