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Geek Culture / Java... to do or not to do?

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Bennet
17
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Joined: 27th Jul 2007
Location: Malta
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 00:16 Edited at: 29th Jul 2007 00:54
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Well, I'm a dude dude Malta. I'm going to enter Junior College now (school grading in Malta is generally different than the rest of the world. But that's not of much importance in my case). My aim is to become a renowned game programmer, and to do so, I must pursue Computer Studies at Advanced Level, and Pure Mathematics at Intermediate.

Now, the problem lies here, and after discussing it with my mother, I opted in looking for a well visited forum, with a variety of people who are over average knowledgeable about computers etc:

For Computer Studies, the programming language for our syllabus is Java. Now, of course, we must practice this and to do so, we need the Java Development Kit (download-able without need to pay of course). But my Computer won't hold such a program. Studying at school won't be enough either. Especially seeing some of my friends already know all about Java, and I don't have the slightest idea about it.

Thus, I am to face two/three options, if I am to prepare myself in the summer for the Computer Studies Lesson:

- Buy a laptop (or notebook as some call it) (it is good because it is portable and I can take it to the college itself and jot down notes much faster than by writing).

- Upgrade my 8 year old computer to be able to hold a Java running application, while building, debugging and all.

- Give up on Computer Studies. This option is not really available for you guys =P It's my only last desperate resource which I'd have to take if I won't be able to prepare myself accordingly.

Now, laptops in Malta cost from 350 to 1000 Maltese Liri. Equaling about $900 to $2500. Something which can be afforded, but my parents wouldn't really like to opt to it.

For upgrading my computer, it would mean changing an 8 year old tower. Now, for doing so, I'd have to buy a new motherboard, which would amount to about 200 Maltese Liri. Along with any possible RAM upgrades, since a Pentium III motherboard won't be able to sustain an EXTRA addition of 512MB. And it seems that 512MB would be the minimum requirement when using NetBeans with Java. And I'd prefer a 1Gb RAM.

Now, if anyone can help, is it possible to tell me which of the first two options should I take. This will also serve as a "proof" for my mother to read, hoping some experienced forumer answers. Feel free to post your own comments and ideas too!

I would like everyone, when answering, to keep in mind that I'm just putting out my opinion, and preferences. Not stating any hard facts at all.

Also, upgrading my computer MIGHT come out cheaper, but buying a laptop would mean having two computers. I definitely don't want to buy a laptop AND upgrade my computer. Because then, it would be pointless.

Computer Information:
-8 years old.
-366 MB of RAM.
-32GB Hard Disk.
-400Mhz.
-COMBO disk drive seemingly faulty.
-Printer out of order >.< (I'm getting a new one)
-Speakers seem O.K.. *poke poke* (damn, I broke 'em O.O)
-Floppy Disk drive is dead. Yes, completely dead.
-Um... I have no web cam, no headset and no other special tidbit which would make my life a lot easier XD tongue.

Well, I hope I get some good pointers.

Bennet Vella.

Bennet Vella.
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Jimmy
21
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Joined: 20th Aug 2003
Location: Back in the USA
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 01:30
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Laptops are a Computer Studies Student's best friend. Even the lowest-of-the-end laptop, provided it's new, can handle java development.

Tell your parents you'd be crazy not to get a laptop.

Nobody wants a crazy child.

Maltanward, Brotha!

"Oh hey, nice website Jimmy, it's really nice and fancy." -- That C++ Nerd
Visit. Website. NOW!
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Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
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Location: Metropia
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 02:37
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A $300 PC from bestbuy can run your java stuff fine. I do a lot of java programming and I'm running a P4 2.8mhz with 1gb ram.

I just checked BestBuy.com, for $355 you can get a Athlon 64 with 512mb ram and 120gb hdd. The downside is that it comes with Vista, so it basically just turned those specs into an old 386 machine.


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Bennet
17
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Joined: 27th Jul 2007
Location: Malta
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 04:33
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Thank you kindly for your inputs!

Yes, vista seems to make any processor like that cheesy things coming out from the back of creatures (s**t) unless it carries 1 Gig RAM.

I just want a *good* computer for a change. And hopefully one which won't get blown up with viruses because Anti-viruses are a dream to run on it.

Since it is 3 am O.O I'll go to sleep. I'll direct my parents here today at 2pm

Bennet.
Yes, parents DEFINITELY don't like crazy children

Bennet Vella.
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GatorHex
19
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Joined: 5th Apr 2005
Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 06:00
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Don't forget

DBP = CodeSurge

as does

Java = Eclipse



DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Bennet
17
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Location: Malta
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 13:22
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Stop smoking. It hurts your kids.

Bv.

()

Bennet Vella.
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John Y
Synergy Editor Developer
22
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Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 14:33 Edited at: 28th Jul 2007 14:35
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If you want to try a lighter IDE for Java then I strongly recommend X - Develop (http://www.omnicore.com/en/xdevelop.htm). You have to purchase it, but it is 100 times faster than the other Java IDE's, and it handles the .Net languages, java script etc.

So,

DBP = Synergy Editor

as does

Java = X - Develop

Synergy IDE and Synergy Editor
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_read&i=29
Http://www.digitalzenith.net
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Bennet
17
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Location: Malta
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 14:42
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Well, we will be asked to use the JDK which can be downloaded for free as far as I know.

If we'll be asked to get another type of JDK, they'll either give it to us for free, or advise us from beforehand about it. So far, I have heard nothing about such things.

And I don't really believe they'll ask us to use a credit card. Especially because the bank account we get to make can't be used in conjunction with PayPal...

So I believe so far, a laptop would be the only solution.

Bv.

Dang, I wonder what my father will say about this... *looks at fork*

Ooh, 4 Trojans found so far >.<

Bennet Vella.
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GatorHex
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Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 15:45 Edited at: 28th Jul 2007 16:01
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Think of Java as a nice easy version of C++

You still use the JDK with Eclipse(free), last time i had it on it's own your IDE was notepad/command prompt

Quote: "my Computer won't hold such a program"


You 32gb harddrive cannot spare 172mb of space? Just try downloading and see how it goes. If it's crud upgrade.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Bennet
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Location: Malta
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 16:30
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The issue is not really about the space on my hard disk drive.

It's more about RAM. I have already other applications running, burning my RAM. Using a "SUMP" program, I found out that out of 366 MB RAM, I have roughly 277MB used without the JAVA running. Once I start it up, the computer crashes, or if it doesn't crash, I write at my common speed, and the speed for characters to appear would be 1 SECOND PER CHARACTER, which isn't the same as 2 words per second and a half, which is my common speed.

Thus, it definitely won't work on my computer just as it is right now. My pc is just not powerful enough for the Java. I'm using NetBeans to run it, which seems to be what the school will ask us to use.

Any more suggestions? My mother read all this, after reading it out to her she asked me to thank you guys for your submissions!

Also, I can't really buy anything online. Reasons:

- Father would say I'd get scammed.
- I believe I'd get scammed.
- My friends already got scammed.
- I don't have a Visa, and my card isn't compatible with PayPal.
- No one from my family has a Visa. Their card isn't compatible either with paypal.
- I'm just to dumb to make a visa for now.
- I would still like to know whether an upgrade is better to a laptop.

So far, the first reply has given me the right idea. I believe using a laptop may mean a massive help for me seeing that 2 computers will enable my brother to access a computer while I can have all my data stored safely. Also, I'd have to fix the COMBO, Floppy disk and buy a headset singly. Some offers include a couple of those along with a laptop.

So, any more opinions for my mother to read?

Bennet Vella.
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Jess T
Retired Moderator
21
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Joined: 20th Sep 2003
Location: Over There... Kablam!
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 17:41
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Why do you have to buy a new motherboard?

Surely, you could buy a single stick of 1GB RAM and put that into your Motherboard. It'd be alot cheaper than buying a new Motherboard, and massively cheaper than buying a new laptop.

Nintendo DS & Dominos :: DS Dominos
http://jt0.org
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GatorHex
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Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 17:46 Edited at: 28th Jul 2007 18:01
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If your MB max mem is 512 I'd sell the 128 and put a 256 in there.

You don't say the speed of your CPU, if it's like a 1.2Gz P3 (pound for pund the P3 was a faster design than the P4) you should be okay. If it's something realy slow like 600Mhz yeah you maybe should use it as an excuse to get a new laptop out of your mom

Drop an Nvidia 6200 in there too and you'll be good for DBP too

P3-1200 + nVidia 6200 + DBP = not bad at all...


DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Location: Metropia
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 19:57
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Eclipse, unlike other IDEs for Java, isn't made with Java. So Eclipse runs much faster than most. I still use Netbeans myself, but I've been meaning to give Eclipse a try for awhile now. Then there's always XCode if you want a real editor.


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Virtual X
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Posted: 28th Jul 2007 20:05 Edited at: 28th Jul 2007 20:05
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JCreator is pretty good, still has a few bugs that need sorting, definately a contender for the best IDE as many IDE's like Eclipse and Netbeans are just overkill IMO
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John Y
Synergy Editor Developer
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Posted: 28th Jul 2007 21:27
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Quote: "Eclipse, unlike other IDEs for Java, isn't made with Java"


Most of it is written in Java.

Synergy IDE and Synergy Editor
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_read&i=29
Http://www.digitalzenith.net
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Kentaree
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Location: Clonmel, Ireland
Posted: 28th Jul 2007 21:28
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Quote: "Eclipse, unlike other IDEs for Java, isn't made with Java"


Eclipse is written in Java using the SWT toolkit, so it's faster than the equivalent AWT or Swing interfaces, but it's still java. I would definitely recommend it over anything else I've used though.

Nephin Games
Devhat Developer Network and IRC Channel
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Bennet
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Posted: 29th Jul 2007 00:51
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400Mhz CPU speed. Sorry for not mentioning.

Bennet Vella.
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Bennet
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Posted: 29th Jul 2007 01:07
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Quote: "Eclipse is written in Java using the SWT toolkit, so it's faster than the equivalent AWT or Swing interfaces, but it's still java. I would definitely recommend it over anything else I've used though."


That's no issue. They said we'll be using NetBeans at school, so until they say otherwise, I'll use NetBeans

Also, I want java to run. And to run smoothly. No crashes, no data losses (can't afford any of those). Not willing to upgrade a motherboard when it'd cost the same as getting a new computer, which turns out to be portable.

So I just wanted to get some backup. And the first 2 posts pretty much covered it all.

Now some of you may say I just want a laptop, and that was my intention a year ago, but I just now want to build a safe programming environment which won't lead to any major errors (data loss due to crashes or spyware). And I'm willing to do my utmost to build this. Thanks for all the submissions though, which most probably took a fair amount of time

Bv.

Bennet Vella.
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Virtual X
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Posted: 30th Jul 2007 18:47
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too be honest, I would stay away from NetBeans, as much as I like Java and NetBeans, it is just damn way too slow to do any serious development as you get pee'd off rather easily, well... I do LOL.

Java is a cool language which has cool tools available for it, but, at school you want to LEARN Java, not bother with learning a bloated IDE which is overkill, the same goes for Eclipse which has too many bells'n'whistles for my liking.

You really want to use something like JCreator as it's faster, easier and such a nice IDE to learn Java with.

or better still, use notepad! that way you learn what programs are used to run a java program by using the command line.

Mention it to your teacher, NotePad or JCreator - you can't go wrong!
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GatorHex
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Posted: 30th Jul 2007 20:23
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400Mhz is way too slow, even I couldn't put up with that, get an new computer ASAP!

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Kentaree
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Posted: 30th Jul 2007 20:31
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400Mhz should be enough to run java though, when I started college that was all I used, although a lot of coding we did was using notepad and the console rather than with IDEs

Nephin Games
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Bennet
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Posted: 31st Jul 2007 10:57
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New notebook on my desk!

It's a smart Toshiba Satellite A200-10X having:

Intel® Centrino® Duo Mobile Technology featuring Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor T5600, Intel® Wireless WiFi™ Link 4965AGN network connection and Intel® 945PM Express chipset
clock speed : 1.83 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 2 MB
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition
Memory: 1 GB RAM standard, expandable to 4Gig. (Currently it is expanded to 2Gig due to vista taking 3/4ths of 1Gig O.O)
capacity : 200 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.

DVD Super Multi drive (Double Layer) compatible with:
CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-R(DL), DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+R(DL), DVD+RW, DVD-RAM

maximum speed : Read: 24x CD-ROM, 8x DVD-ROM/ Write: 24x CD-R, 4x CD-RW, 10x HS CD-RW, 10x US CD-RW, 8x DVD-R, 4x DVD-R (Double Layer), 4x DVD-RW, 8x DVD+R, 4x DVD+R (Double Layer), 4x DVD+RW, 5x DVD-RAM

Display size : 15.4 "
type : Toshiba TruBrite® WXGA TFT display
internal resolution : 1,280 x 800

Graphics adapter manufacturer : NVIDIA®
type : NVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 7300 supporting TurboCache™ technology
memory amount : 256 MB dedicated VRAM (up to 527 MB total available graphics memory using TurboCache™ technology with 2 GB system memory)
memory type : DDR Video RAM (resp. DDR Video RAM and DDR system memory combined)

Internal video modes resolution : 1,280 x 800
maximum number of colours : 16.7 million
connected bus : 16x PCI Express

max. resolution : 2,048 x 1,536
max. colours : 4.3 billion
max. refresh rate : 100 Hz
non-interlaced resolution with max. refresh rate : 1,600 x 1,200

Interfaces 1 x DC-in
1 x external monitor
1 x RJ-11
1 x RJ-45
1 x TV-out (S-video)
1 x i.LINK® (IEEE 1394)
1 x external microphone
1 x headphone (stereo)
1 x 5-in-1 Bridge Media slot (supports SD™ Cards, Memory Stick®, Memory Stick Pro™, MultiMedia Card™, xD-Picture Card™)
4 (Left 2, Right 2) x USB 2.0
1 x integrated 1.3 Megapixels Video Camera

Expansion: 2 x memory slots
1 x Express Card™ slot

Wireless communication
Wireless Technology : Bluetooth®
Compliancy : Wi-Fi™
Network Support : 802.11a/b/g/Draft-N
Wireless Technology : Wireless LAN (802.11a/b/g/Draft-N)

Battery technology : lithium-ion
maximum life : currently no official Windows Vista® battery benchmark result available (about 2.5 hours though, if it is used on saving mode)

Physical Dimensions: W x L x H : 362 x 267.8 x 33.5 (front) / 39.3 (rear) mm
weight : starting at 2.5 kg

2 year international warranty (parts & labor, software not included)

Bundled hardware: AC adapter

Bundled software: nterVideo® WinDVD™
Toshiba Disc Creator
Toshiba User's Manual
Norton Internet Security™ 2007 (includes free Internet updates for 90 days)
Ulead® DVD MovieWriter® for TOSHIBA
Toshiba Value Added Package
Toshiba Supervisor Password Utility
Toshiba Assist
Toshiba Speech System
Toshiba Camera Assistant Software
Toshiba Bluetooth® Stack
Connectivity Doctor
Toshiba ConfigFree™

And a couple more 20-line list of gibberish.

Well... woo?

Bennet Vella.
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