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2D All the way! / Best/Most suitable program to create graphics like this...

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Nilrem
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Posted: 1st Jun 2003 16:28
Click the link below please, sorry for the inconvieniance but I didn't want to double post, as I was unsure which forum section this goes under.
http://www.darkbasicpro.com/apollo/view.php?t=11118&b=3
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
Porl
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 12:24
You could use Adobe Photoshop, corel photopaint, paint shop pro (which i think is free) ...something like that...you would have to lower the resolution of your image (dpi) to get the blocky look like the monkey island (and the best bitmap images imho) and turn the anti-aliasing off on the brushes you use.

I guess if you were really desperate, you could use Paint (windows) but i wouldn't recommend it.

Porl''
Van B
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 12:45
Well, when I'd do graphics on the ST, using only 16 colours, I'd draw the basic image using lines in mono, like a white backdrop and black lines, then I'd fill in the colours. After that, you need to use the zoom mode to draw the pixels practically 1 by 1, it's the only way to get nice sharp graphics. I think paint could probably do the job, no point in using a fancy package when all you need is a floodfill and zoom. To get a slightly more smooth look, you could try some manual anti-aliasing, like a very very subtle soften, only it takes a while.

Just take your time though, and add as much detail as you can (people always notice little details in point'n'click games).


Van-B

My cats breath smells of cat food.
indi
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 14:24
I would deploy painter 5 because it has many options for creating tools or riff files that would help to populate the 2d world space as well as supply animation cells for animated key features eg fireplace etc..

It will support most extra filters found on the net also and is similar in strengths to photoshop and paint shop.

Dave J
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 15:13
Paint Shop Pro is very much not free.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
actarus
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 15:35
Most of those above are not free but I think Indi is very very rich

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Van B
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 15:42
Aha, but the adorable PSP3.1 is pretty much free, and is very nice. Not as much features obviously, but everythings nicely laid out for you.

It's no longer available for download, but I could email it to you if you'd like - not illegal because it is still a trial version, only it's unrestricted. After v4 the restrictions were put in place .


Van-B

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actarus
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 16:46
Yep I got v3 and it had both a better look and performance,I really don't know why,but I love the windows we had in that time

Running away You're lost for words again Now you`ve got all what you wanted Are you really satisfied?
Nilrem
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 17:12 Edited at: 5th Jun 2003 18:34
No need I've got PSP7 and PSP8.

Ok, where can I find painter 5? (I'm assuming you're not referencing to PSP?) Also what dpi setting do you suggest?

I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
indi
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 19:55
painter 8 is the latest and it was gobbled up by corel

http://www.corel.com/

indi
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 19:58
photoshop came as a bundle with my high end scanner many years ago and I bought painter5 because it came in a paint tin! no it really good for making graphics as opposed to photoshops methods.

Porl
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 12:38
Quote: " Paint Shop Pro is very much not free. "


hmm...which one is it that im thinking of then? :-s I cant remember which one it is now...i know there is one that people recommend because it is free and is pretty good. . . .

Porl''
indi
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 16:10
415 was free on a magazine a while back im sure its ready for dl off the web also

Eponick
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 17:45
I was also curious of theese types of graphics.
Some of you may remember(or maby not) remember Simon the Sorcerer for DOS way way back a long time ago. It was my favorite game when I was like 8. It also used this type of graphics.

Van B
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 18:10
Well, the only real charactaristic about those graphics is the lack of colour, back in the day, we only had 16 or 32 colours, so a game that needed a lot of colour, would have really basic graphics and stipling. I like the look too - although it does work a lot better on an old TV, instead of a crisp monitor. The closest you'd get to that style nowadays is cartoon shading.

I'd actually like to see more artistic graphics in games, like perhaps a game based on the animated series Spawn, with the basic colouring etc, but really dark and moody. For certain genre's cartoonesque graphics really work, point and click adventures are a definate because it makes the little details stand out.

I'm gonna knock a little engine together for making these games this weekend, might even make an example adventure game, I loved Loom and Gobliiins and Dark Seed and Monkey Island (damn there was a lot of them!), really relaxing games from a neglected genre.


Van-B

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Simple
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 18:19
MSpaint !!

Thats about all you'd need for graphics like this ... but for better graphics I'd suggest either Photoshop or Paintshop pro.

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom

Van B
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 18:35
Simple does ALL his graphics in MSPaint

It's not that he can't afford PSP, he likes a challenge is all .


Van-B

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Nilrem
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Posted: 8th Jun 2003 10:32 Edited at: 11th Jun 2003 12:21
Hehe, ok guys thanks for the feedback.

Yeah Van-B I loved all of them games too, some more examples.. umm.. Lure of the Temptress, the puzzles for that were a bit weird but still a good game, Day of the Tentacle is a good game, umm I love the Mi series, but when Ron Gilbert left after number 2 they took the story a different route to the one Ron had designed.

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WindTech
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 10:38
MSPaint owns all Nuff said.

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indi
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 12:27
deluxe paint 3 on the amiga was a personal fav

actarus
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 23:49
Good luck making 16 colors maps in Mspaint LMAO!

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Simple
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 02:52
LOL@Indi

You were lucky ... you had 32 colours to play with ..... "Canvas" on my 1040 STE only had 16

But Damn ! I was good at differing.

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indi
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 05:58
Van B
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 13:54
Ahhh, Canvas - that was my tool of choice too - loved that damn program!. I made my own stippling software, so I could take a 24-bit TGA bitmap (like from POV Raytracer) and convert it downto seperate 16 colour layers without it looking too crappy. I had a special viewer that would simply screen switch to give the illusion of more colours. My images ended up looking much better than cruddy Spectrum512 anyway! - especially on an old TV.

The bitmap brothers did some amazing stuff with just the 16 colours, although it was only really 14, you had a background and mask colour to specify too!.


Van-B

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Nilrem
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 14:34
Ahh yes the bitmap brothers, didn't they make the game, 'The Chaso Engine'? Or something like that, I loved that game on my Amiga 500 when I was younger.

I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
Van B
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 14:41
Yep, they made a lot of 16-bit greats, Xenon, Xenon2, Chaos Engine, Chaos Engine 2, Magic Pockets, Speedball, Speedball2, Cadaver, Gods, all classics .

You know, point and click games are very popular amongst kids. One of the most popular games for school kids is Pajama Sam, which is a point and click adventure, the boy has Pajama Sam 1&2, and PuttPutt joins the circus - bloody cool point and click games, even if they are for the kids. Pajama Sam 2 has the voice of 'Bobby' from King of the Hill, those guys must be making a lot of money.


Van-B

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Nilrem
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 15:16
I love point and click adventure games, Broken Sword is my second fave series for point and click games (Monkey Island is my faveourite), however the franchise of Leisure Suit Larry never really gripped me.

Also, Gods, heh what a game, Xenon 1 never played but Xenon 2 was cool getting to buy ship upgrades (if I remember correctly?).

I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
actarus
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 15:51
hehe Nilrem...I'm a fan too.

I hope you played Escape from monkey island it's so funny...But still my favorite is it's pred. Curse Of MI

Running away You're lost for words again Now you`ve got all what you wanted Are you really satisfied?
Nilrem
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 01:42
Yes Actarus, I have had all 4 games, currently only have 2, (the first 2) the second 2 are missing so I've ordered EMI for £14.99 and have emailed my friend to see if I can borrow his CoMI.

However actarus I digress with what you said, whilst EMI is a good game, I believe the first one (SoMI) to be the best one.

However everyone is entitled to their own opinion.



I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
actarus
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 16:12
I have yet to play it...

They must've had a bit more inspiration at first than after a few games I reckon...Even I who only payed 2 of the titles,start to feel deja vu after CoMI.

Modeling Tip of the Week:Keep away from the infamous frog dissection pose!
indi
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 03:36
Van B
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 04:26
You guys forgot Indiana Jones, the sorta predesessor to the more advanced point and click games. That was awesome, never did finish it!.

Been playing Loom on STeem - Ahh, nastalgia!.


Van-B

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 20:31
I think that Anim8or is the best way to make these types of games nowadays, and it's free. You make the models, animate the models, and render them. If they are too colourful for you, you can find filters to get rid of the colours. That's how I'd do it, infact I am thinking of making a game like this myself.


Pincho.
Evil Noodle
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 22:03
Grim Fandango is a must play ,without a doubt

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actarus
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 16:29
-I think that Anim8or is the best way to make these types of games nowadays,

I've played many 2D games before '96 that already used rendered models pictures...They've been using this for a long time.

Modeling Tip of the Week:Keep away from the infamous frog dissection pose!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 00:43
That's slightly misinterpreted Actarus. Anim8or wasn't around then, and rendering required fast, expensive computers. £700 for a really bad modelling package. Theme Park was Rendered..Some of the Bitmap Bros games were rendered, but like I say it was expensive. The company I worked for paid £100,000 for a computer to render images, and it was bog standard for today. Probably a 233 of some kind, with some kind of special hardware inside. The sort of thing that was used for films in those days. They used it to make a TV programme on Saturday mornings, I can't remember what it was called but it had the number 9 in it, and some dinosaurs chasing after you, and you could phone in and say run left, run right.


Pincho.
actarus
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 01:47 Edited at: 17th Jun 2003 01:48
-That's slightly misinterpreted Actarus. Anim8or wasn't around then, and rendering required fast, expensive computers

I agree but if you knew your stuff a little bit better you'd laugh at yourself for quoting anim8or as a professionally used software...I mean,in '95 3d Studio Max R1 was around along with Renderman and a few others and they used it on high specs workstations often equipped with 2 3D acclerators...

When I said I played many games before 96,that meant many 'commercial' games,none of them I'm production houses ever used anim8or for sure.

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!
Van B
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 04:09
The silicon graphics workstation was the daddy in the early 90's.
I remember leaving my ST on for days rendering POV scenes - damn that was complicated, like a model format that you had to code!. Quite fun seeing the results though.


Van-B

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indi
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 08:21
actarus
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 16:03
They sure are...

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 17:50
Quote: "I agree but if you knew your stuff a little bit better you'd laugh at yourself for quoting anim8or as a professionally used software...I mean,in '95 3d Studio Max R1 was around along with Renderman and a few others and they used it on high specs workstations often equipped with 2 3D acclerators...

When I said I played many games before 96,that meant many 'commercial' games,none of them I'm production houses ever used anim8or for sure"


Actarus...where did you get these quotes from? I never made any of them.

All I said was to the guy making a Monkey Island type game that Anim8or was free, and could do the job well. I don't know where you got all the stuff about using it in a commercial game from.


Yeah Silicon Graphics that was what they were using! They let me have a play on it! I was scared to put my mug of coffee near it.
actarus
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 18:02
Ok let's go for the analyze.

Quote: "I think that Anim8or is the best way to make these types of games nowadays,

I've played many 2D games before '96 that already used rendered models pictures...They've been using this for a long time."


I simply meant that this method has been used for quite a long time and not just 'nowadays'...and if you were implying that there were no free software or cheap sharewares in 1996 then you're wrong.


Like you said I misinterpreted what I read but nevertheless,anim8or is far from being the first choice for image quality,while it's a capable raytracer,I highly doubt it comes even close to trueSPace(what I suggested in Nilrem's first post asking the same question) or POVRay's renderer.

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 18:10
Well when I used the term 'Nowadays' I was comparing it to PSP/Photoshop/ and the other programs available that were mentioned above my comment. 'Nowadays' as in what is available free today.
Those other programs that you mentioned, I have never heard of, so If they are like Anim8or then maybe they are better. But do they Model/Animate/ and render all in one package? Because Anim8or does everything!
warzog
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 18:21
I've tried Anim8tor...
But I'm not a 3D modeler!
Sooooo.....
I use Poser to render my images, and MS Paint/PSP7 to assemble the animation pages.
I like Poser because of the more realistic images you get.
Here's an example:

That's Alana, from my game of the same name.
actarus
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 18:23 Edited at: 17th Jun 2003 18:24
PINCHO:Yes trueSpace 3.2 is capable of,modeling which is as comparable as anim8or's tools,manipulate Uvwmap elements(plugin),animate and export DirectX .X hierarchies,D3D and Ogl(required for '3Dpaint') viewports.

As for the rendering quality of it's AVI's,it's a classic raytracer with all regular options from AA to Refl/Refrac but it's superiority comes from the material quality and the procedurals ones(which I'm not sure though, think anim8or doesn't have) as well...Not to talk about how easy it is to overlay materials,add texture,effect and refraction and mix them fluidly together...Just gotta go over that'the interface bugs me thing'...It's got definable shortcuts like any software should.

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!
Van B
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 01:48
That's pretty cool Warzog, nice angle too . Is it for an iso RPG? - could be an Austin Powers game too "She likes short shorts".

Erm, where's Nilrem? - he hasn't posted in ages!

Last I heard he was playing the monkey island series, maybe he fractured his pointing and clicking finger .


Van-B

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warzog
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 05:07
Yes, Van B, it's an iso game, but a Fantasy Adventure.
Nilrem
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 17:14 Edited at: 18th Jun 2003 17:15
I'm right here Van-B, sorry heh, I haven't been on the boards in a while. I'm too engrossed playing the Monkey Island series and Final Fantasy VII, trouble is I was going to clear all of the Monkey Island's but then I overwrote my Monkey Island 1 save game to the start, and I was near the end, so I can't be bothered to do all of that again, I like number 2, but I just bought CoMI and EMI so I'm playing them right now.

I've been doing my G.C.S.E Examinations too; I've got 1 left now, and that is on Monday (23rd, Electronics).

Anywho thankyou all for all of the replies, it's been most enlightening, please post more if you have even more valid feedback.

Edit:-
P.S. My finger is ok, very sore, battered and bruised, but I'll still fight (click?) on!



I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
indi
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Posted: 19th Jun 2003 08:54
you want a program that can store the animated cells as well as producing tools to recreate similar objects of desire in a replication and painter destroys all comptetitors with this aspect.

long live the .riff file format. not tiff!

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 19th Jun 2003 10:09 Edited at: 19th Jun 2003 10:10
When it comes to 2D art, particularly low colour art, I still have DPaint IV and an Amiga Emulator and it is still king.

Having said that though, if I was to write a game like that now i'd probably take a holiday in Normandy or North Wales and take a digital camera with me.

Pneumatic Dryll

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