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Geek Culture / Net Neutrality?

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UnderLord
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 00:11
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What do you guys think about this topic? I know there is a crap load of debate around it.

Me personally I think the net should stay neutral.

Why?

Because the internet was born to do exactly that be a neutral ground for people to learn about anything and everything, looking up other providers for services etc....The net should not be used to gain a advantage over any company if a company needs a advantage over another they should find a way to do it better then trying to censor there users...

http://www.askaninja.com/node/2836

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Jess T
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 05:30
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Quote: "the internet was born to do exactly that be a neutral ground for people to learn about anything and everything"


Actually, the internet was created as a communication device between military computers in the US. It has nothing to do with public sharing of information and access.

Personally, I think that the state the internet is in now, where everything is freely accessible and controllable by those who own it (eg, I can control my own domain), is how it should stay.

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UnderLord
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 05:46
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Quote: "Actually, the internet was created as a communication device between military computers in the US. It has nothing to do with public sharing of information and access."


thanks for the correction =P i thought it was made for the purpose i stated.

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 05:47
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I looked up net neutrality on Wikipedia but couldn't really understand what it's all about. Would someone care to explain? It may be a stupid question, but I'm missing something.



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UnderLord
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 05:48
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Quote: "I looked up net neutrality on Wikipedia but couldn't really understand what it's all about. Would someone care to explain? It may be a stupid question, but I'm missing something. "


uhhh the link i put up explains it pretty well.

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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SageTech
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 06:56 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2007 06:57
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Bah, nothing to worry about as long as us Americans have people like this making big decisions on internet regulations.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=f99PcP0aFNE&mode=related&search=

YUP. nothing to worry about.


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tha_rami
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 07:32 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2007 07:34
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Quote: "Actually, the internet was created as a communication device between military computers in the US. It has nothing to do with public sharing of information and access."


Although I do feel we're talking about the World Wide Web here (which is NOT the same as the internet) and that was created by CERN as a method of communication. But whatever.

Net neutrality? Uhm. No. The web isn't a single entity. You can't push it one way or another, really, I think. Also, being really neutral doesn't really exist for humans so since humans create the web, the web is not neutral. Whoever figured the WWW is neutral?


Little Bright Dots
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Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 10:06
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Quote: "Although I do feel we're talking about the World Wide Web here (which is NOT the same as the internet)"


Please explain the difference.

Or are we going to argue semantics here?

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Krilik
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 10:43
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So people should be allowed to use someone else's website to promote their own?

The Ask A Ninja argument is pretty weak if you ask me. He's complaining that he may be "forced" to use MySpace to promote his videos and by doing so other companies will make money off of people who visit MySpace to watch them. Except MySpace would be providing a service to him, free of charge, to promote his own website, host his videos, and pay for bandwidth. I don't see where there is any ground for "Let me do what I want on your website" argument.

They're privately owned domains. The owners can pretty much do whatever they want as long as its not illegal.
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UnderLord
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 16:07 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2007 16:09
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Quote: "The Ask A Ninja argument is pretty weak if you ask me. He's complaining that he may be "forced" to use MySpace to promote his videos and by doing so other companies will make money off of people who visit MySpace to watch them. Except MySpace would be providing a service to him, free of charge, to promote his own website, host his videos, and pay for bandwidth. I don't see where there is any ground for "Let me do what I want on your website" argument.
"


Dude you totally missed the point.

Quote: "which basically boils down to one company blocking access to to another companies servers in order to gain a business advantage. This debate has usually focused on the companies that charge for bandwidth like AT&T"


Quote: "Ask A Ninja was created because we were in control of where we posted the videos. That's a big deal because if we're forced to put them on MySpace video then FOX could take the episodes and make money off of them without paying Douglas or me anything."


I don't think you'd chance FOX stealing your show would you?


Quote: "Why is this against Net Neutrality? Because videos from Myspace Video and Youtube are not effected. It's only these smaller, more innovative companies that haven't been sold for billions of dollars."


"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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tha_rami
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 19:03
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Quote: "Quote: "Although I do feel we're talking about the World Wide Web here (which is NOT the same as the internet)"

Please explain the difference.

Or are we going to argue semantics here?"


The internet is the actual link between the computers, the WWW is the total of sites starting with http(s), and thus only a small part of the internet.


Little Bright Dots
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Code Dragon
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 19:13
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We are not going to lose our net neutrality, no matter what savetheinternet.com says ISPs will do. You can make your own server, and bam, 100% control over your domain name.

No one really owns the internet, so we're always able to control our piece of it.

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Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 21:48
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Quote: "The internet is the actual link between the computers, the WWW is the total of sites starting with http(s), and thus only a small part of the internet."


Cool thanks-- I never really considered them different

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UnderLord
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 23:24
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Quote: "We are not going to lose our net neutrality, no matter what savetheinternet.com says ISPs will do. You can make your own server, and bam, 100% control over your domain name."


But what if your ISP blocks certain sites that don't use that ISP or block sites that do not allow you to visit other ISP's etc etc. what then?

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Krilik
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2007 02:00 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2007 02:03
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Quote: "Dude you totally missed the point."


No I didn't. I asked a question regarding the main point. And then I addressed Ask A Ninja's argument to the problem.

Seriously, MySpace is privately owned, they can do whatever they want as long as its not illegal. I don't see how anyone has any justification with being able to post links, videos, images, or whatever if the website you're posting them on doesn't want them there. If MySpace did allow it, people from different websites had free advertisement to millions of people just by signing up and messaging people with links to their sites.

Ask A Ninja is not forced to use MySpace to display their movies to people. If for some reason they have an audience on MySpace they can easily upload their videos to whatever video hosting place they want, and tell their viewers on MySpace to go to their own website and watch them embedded into their blog. Better yet, they could just host the videos themselves and pay for their own bandwidth and hosting. I don't see why any other company has any obligation to protect any other companies interest.
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UnderLord
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2007 03:46 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2007 03:54
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Quote: "Ask A Ninja is not forced to use MySpace to display their movies to people. If for some reason they have an audience on MySpace they can easily upload their videos to whatever video hosting place they want, and tell their viewers on MySpace to go to their own website and watch them embedded into their blog. Better yet, they could just host the videos themselves and pay for their own bandwidth and hosting. I don't see why any other company has any obligation to protect any other companies interest."


I revert back to this quote once more

Quote: "Ask A Ninja was created because we were in control of where we posted the videos. That's a big deal because if we're forced to put them on MySpace video then FOX could take the episodes and make money off of them without paying Douglas or me anything."


Which that quote is a decent example of net neutrality can we stay on topic?


[edit]

Maybe linking to Ask a Ninja was a bad idea, here try this link on for size, much more informative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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jasonhtml
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2007 03:49
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if the net doesn't stay neutral, i'll explode. seriously, they have no right to regulate our sources of information.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2007 05:10
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How the heck does one wish to filter, censor or regulate the internet? You'll just have an undernet or shadownet, if that happens.


Little Bright Dots
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Jess T
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2007 10:12
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tha_rami,
Google already do it. Google China doesn't return any results to do with the Tiananmen Square protests

The thing is, though, the Net is still neutral, regardless of what Google are blocking: wikipedia isn't bound by the same rules, and if anyone in China is looking for information on it, then there are a multitude of sites out there that can be found from other sources (news sites, etc).

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tha_rami
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2007 14:44
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I think most Chinese know that, and yes, Google is quite willing to avoid being completely shut down in such regions. However, this is not net unneutrality, this is keeping to local laws censorship. Chinese people wanting that information will be able to find it nevertheless, I suppose. It's not like the internet CAN be objective as a whole, I feel.


Little Bright Dots
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