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Geek Culture / Protecting downloaded MP3's

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spooky
22
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Joined: 30th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Jun 2003 00:56
Just some advice needed really.

I work for a web-design company that produce e-commerce solutions.

One of our customers wants to stick some mp3's on a website and sell them but in a form that can not be copied to their mates computers or to a CD, e.t.c.

There is one solution called mp3guard that uses a customized MP3 player and encrypted mp3 and was wondering if I should write something similar, possibly using DBPro.

From what I can gather though, it is nigh on impossible to completely protect the song as you simply record what comes out of your soundcards line out onto another computer.

I can easily do all the web stuff with taking credit card orders and online authorization and getting whatever files to the user but was wondering if anyone had any ideas.
Gronda, Gronda
Kangaroo2
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Jun 2003 01:34
Once a file is on a computer its basically impossible to effectively stop people copying it.

One method you could try is making the mp3s exe files that check the users registry. Another would be to make the file stream online via a pay to listen or protected area, but both are easily(ish) hackable. You could make special codecs to allow users to play the files, but then the codecs could just be passed around too

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes, They got them hoppy legs & twitchy little noses,
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 4th Jun 2003 01:40
And of course you can stick a line in/out jack from one computer to another...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Solidz Snake
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Posted: 4th Jun 2003 02:00
1. User download mp3 file.

2. User listen to mp3 file until finish.

3. Once mp3 file finished playing: 'this mp3 file will self-destruct in 5 seconds'. lol!

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

spooky
22
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Jun 2003 02:07
Thanks for the help. I thought of doing something like the microsoft winxp activation thingy where it creates a unique identifier by looking at the serial number of hard drive, amount of ram installed, e.t.c. This is then used as a key for encrypting the mp3 and then built into the files that the user downloads. I just need to knock up a half decent mp3 player in DBPro that reads in the encrypted file and plays it. The theory is that you cant copy these files to another pc. Trouble comes though if user installs on another drive or they change memory.

Trouble is that DBPro does not work on Windows NT or Apple macs, but then again do I care!

I may pursue this a bit futher over next week or so. Luckily the client is not in too much of a rush as they are still putting together an album. They were just hoping to sell some tracks online.

Forcing user to only use a basic MP3 player with no way of controlling sound may be a turn-off aswell. Also even a basic compressed DBPro player will be a pretty hefty download.

Still does not stop user doing an analogue record from soundcard output though and creating their own mp3 or CD. But then again you will lose some quality doing it like that.

Any other suggestions greatly received.

Gronda, Gronda
Arrow
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Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 4th Jun 2003 02:17
How about insted using MP3s use Flash. Make a little flash jutebox for each song. People can't use is to burn cd's, you can't add it to a playlist, and few people know how to save flash file from the net.

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Ian T
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Posted: 4th Jun 2003 02:44
Whatever you use, it's still possible to crack it, thank heavens.

Good luck finding something 50%+ effective.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Kangaroo2
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Jun 2003 03:00
The flash idea's a good one, I forgot it can play mp3s Still not really secure, but I don't thinkits gonna really be realistically possible, so thats a good bet.

Can I ask what exactly these mp3s contain that they're so scared ppl will want to copy?

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes, They got them hoppy legs & twitchy little noses,
And what's with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
the_winch
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Joined: 1st Feb 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 4th Jun 2003 21:11
I would think making people use a special mp3 player, especially a simple one written in dbpro is going to put off more customers than you would loose to piracy by using normal mp3. You would need to be at the level of features cpu/memory useage and stability of winamp before people will be prepared to switch to your player.
Rob K
Retired Moderator
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Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Jun 2003 22:47
See if you can find MP3ToExe which creates exe files from MP3s. You can then use any one of numerous executable protection tools to secure the exe. Using DBPro, convert the MP3 to an encrypted data format, load it in using the DBP file commands, decrypt it and assemble a sound memblock from which you create the sound file.

You could either lock the exe to the PC or lock it to a CDR disc.

Using packed media / encrypted media options in the IDE is not advisable as your files are decrypted and accessible by anyone who knows how to use copy / paste.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
spooky
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 5th Jun 2003 02:24
Thanks for all the advice chaps but the more we look into it the more it looks like its just not worth the effort! There are various companies that 'claim' their mp3 protection is foolproof but it either involves the user using a special player which looks rubbish or is complicated to use by involving passwords and keys and stuff.

We are going to convince the client that making money out of mp3's is probably not gonna work.

The client is working on behalf of a band who are producing their first proper album and they were hoping to stick most of the tracks onto a website for people to buy, as well as a cd in the shops.

I think it would be better to just encode some short taster tracks for free download as normal mp3's that users can distribute as much as they want to get interest in them buying the cd from their local shop.

Gronda, Gronda
Ian T
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 02:39
Unless they're a pretty big band, it isn't likely that the mp3s will be shared. A single person sharing a file over KaZaA normally gets nowhere, and even with multiple people it dosen't tend to work. There's really no way to be protect that stuff for sure, as you said... seems like you're going about it the right way to me.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
spooky
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 02:55
Think you're right Mouse. Maybe if price was right (i.e. cheap!) and band has a loyal following then might be able to sell a few files. If a few of these get copied or get onto KaZaR then so what. A lot of people are not computer literate enough to even know about such activities and will just get their credit card out.

At least if files are plain and simple mp3's then user can play them in whatever they like and on whatever operating system they want.

Hmmm, choice, choices....

I don't even know name of band yet!

Gronda, Gronda
Rob K
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 15:53
@sonic

Music copy protection IS impossible, regardless of what you do, I can just capture the output to the sound card and get a pretty good recording that way. Or I can use a tape player!

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 18:39
WMA's can have licencing right?

WMP is free, so there is your solution just get a licence for the music.

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Rob K
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 18:50
Tape Recorders can still crack WMA

There are at LEAST two utilities available which can crack WMA files as well.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 5th Jun 2003 18:57
well its better than nothing

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
indi
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 6th Jun 2003 16:26
dart pro will also remove the ticks and hiss from vynil so nothing is safe nor sacred in the matrix we call the net !

indi
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 16:32
protected swfs can be opened with a few naughty tools. nothing is safe if its in a digital enviroment.

Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 7th Jun 2003 01:52
How about infecting it with a virus, then if a person downloads it it simple deletes itself, along with the rest of the hard drive !!!

cuRant PRogekt: a three-de map editer
Why the hell'd you ask me for crying out loud!?!
Athelon XP 1400 Plus - Nvidia Geforce MX400 - 256mb RAM
indi
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Posted: 7th Jun 2003 07:36
most virus scanners would alleviate a problem like that but not a function in a game per say when u die it crashed your computer perhaps.

the repercussions on yourself would be a nightmare.

Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 7th Jun 2003 14:30
lol! Im not sure if you were being sarcastic indi, but I was joking.

cuRant PRogekt: a three-de map editer
Why the hell'd you ask me for crying out loud!?!
Athelon XP 1400 Plus - Nvidia Geforce MX400 - 256mb RAM
indi
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