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Geek Culture / Buying a new computer...

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AndrewT
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Posted: 4th Sep 2007 05:34
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So, I've decided to buy a new computer, and I've got some questions regarding the video cards.

I'm planning on going with an 8-Series for sure, and I was wondering what you guys think of them. First of all, how well do they run DX9 as opposed to the 7-Series ones? What's the minimum I would need to get decent DX10 performance? What's the minimum I'd need to get good DX9 performance?

Also, regarding processors, what current applications take advantage of quad-core processors? I'm just curious about whether it'd be worth it.

--This is where my sig would be if I had the energy to make one...--
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bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Sep 2007 08:29
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you should get an 8600gts (160usd) or 8800gts. I'm running an 8600gts and have yet to play a game that's choppy at 1024x768 w/ 8x aa in vista. And that includes Bioshock which just came out.

I've not had trouble with my c2d and apps, I haven't done any sort of digging, but I've found many games and apps likely only use 1 core (my guess but not researched), but it's plenty fast regardless. My gripe is that I don't think I've played a game yet that takes advantage of my 64bit But again, I have really no problems running games.

My suggestion is don't be cheap on the ram, you'll need lots of it to take full advantage of your process or gpu in games


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AndrewT
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Posted: 4th Sep 2007 23:24
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Ya, I've been considering the 8600GTS and the 8800GTS, actually. They both look pretty good for the price.

--This is where my sig would be if I had the energy to make one...--
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GatorHex
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 00:19 Edited at: 5th Sep 2007 00:21
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Go for the fastest card you can afford. Don't get anything less than an 8600 though.

For gaming I'd probably go for Dual core and a faster core speed than quad core. People try and add it up like 4x1Ghz = 4Ghz but it don't work like that.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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gamebird
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 00:40 Edited at: 5th Sep 2007 00:46
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I recommend you get an 8800GTS 320MB. Two 8600GT's in SLI are worse than one 8800GTS 320MB.

For game developing and games that are released later a quad core will be great.

For getting a new pc I recommend Digital Storm. They have great prices and amazing customer support. They can overclock a Q6600 to 2.8GHZ from 2.4GHZ. Just ask.
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AndrewT
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 04:04
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Thanks for the replies.
I'm sorry, I don't have a huge amount of experience with buying a PC, so I've got a couple more questions...

Will a Core 2 Duo 2.66 Ghz do for gaming, or should I go for the 3.0 Ghz?

And about the RAM, how much better would 1066 Mhz 2GB RAM perform than 667 Mhz 2GB? Cuz I noticed quite a big cost difference between them.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 18:45 Edited at: 6th Sep 2007 00:24
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Quote: "Thanks for the replies.
I'm sorry, I don't have a huge amount of experience with buying a PC, so I've got a couple more questions...

Will a Core 2 Duo 2.66 Ghz do for gaming, or should I go for the 3.0 Ghz?

And about the RAM, how much better would 1066 Mhz 2GB RAM perform than 667 Mhz 2GB? Cuz I noticed quite a big cost difference between them."


A core 2 duo 2.66 is crazy fast, you won't have to worry about that. Of course if you can afford a 3.0ghz core 2, then go for it, as long as it doesn't sacrifice the type of graphics card you get, go for the faster graphics card over the faster processor in this case. (for the best gaming experience, if you do a lot of encoding video or something, or wanna cut down your compile time, a 3.0 will go a longer way)

This following rubbish advice, please refer to the lower posts.



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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 19:09
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About how much money are you looking to spend? And how much from your old computer are you going to put in the new? (Cd Drives, Sound card... anything?)
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 19:15
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I personally can't see much point of paying 5x as much money for 3x the power. Every time a new series comes out, I buy a card from the series below. I save tonnes of money and to be quite frank, I don't care much for HD.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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bitJericho
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 19:55 Edited at: 5th Sep 2007 19:57
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Quote: "I personally can't see much point of paying 5x as much money for 3x the power. Every time a new series comes out, I buy a card from the series below. I save tonnes of money and to be quite frank, I don't care much for HD."


I don't think 150 is too much to ask for a kick*** 8600gts series graphics card I agree the price of an 8800 is double that, and too much for the benefit in my opintion. But for a 150 dollar card, that's a pretty good value considering the prices of ps3's these days


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gamebird
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 22:17
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Quote: "Quote: "Thanks for the replies.
I'm sorry, I don't have a huge amount of experience with buying a PC, so I've got a couple more questions...

Will a Core 2 Duo 2.66 Ghz do for gaming, or should I go for the 3.0 Ghz?

And about the RAM, how much better would 1066 Mhz 2GB RAM perform than 667 Mhz 2GB? Cuz I noticed quite a big cost difference between them."

A core 2 duo 2.66 is crazy fast, you won't have to worry about that. Of course if you can afford a 3.0ghz core 2, then go for it, as long as it doesn't sacrifice the type of graphics card you get, go for the faster graphics card over the faster processor in this case. (for the best gaming experience, if you do a lot of encoding video or something, or wanna cut down your compile time, a 3.0 will go a longer way)

As for ram, it depends on what your motherboard supports. You don't need to buy anything faster than what your mobo supports."


A 2.6ghz dual core processor will probably be good. But think of it this way- a single threaded app uses one core, so it would only use 2.6ghz. That is why 3ghz might be better.

The ram you get does not enirely depend on what your motherboard supports. Sure, the motherboard FSB speed does make a difference, but its more complicated than that. The current standard (DDR2) uses 2 sticks of ram running together. So 800mhz is really 400mhz ram. To see how much a processor will use, look at its FSB and divide by how many cores it has. That is the true FSB of the processor. Since there is no available processor that has a 400mhz FSB, unless you plan to do some extreme overclocking and buying a new chip in a year to replace the melted one, 800mhz is more than enough, 667mhz is for someone on a small budget.

There is however the small chance that a new processor compatible with your motherboard will be realesed that does take advantage of 533mhz ram and that is the sole reason regular non-rich people should spend the money to buy it. But I don't think its worth it.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 00:09 Edited at: 6th Sep 2007 00:10
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR2_SDRAM

Here is a nice handy chart for you, the Memory clock is multiplied by 8. Alternatively, you can take the ram speed noted on the product (for example ddr2-533, and multiply the number by two, so 533x2=1066fsb). So for a 1066mhz fsb clock speed, you need DDR2-533, if you're running at the 1333mhz fsb speed, you need DDR2-667. If you're overclocking above 1333, you'll likely need DDR2-800.


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gamebird
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 00:43
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Quote: "Here is a nice handy chart for you, the Memory clock is multiplied by 8. Alternatively, you can take the ram speed noted on the product (for example ddr2-533, and multiply the number by two, so 533x2=1066fsb). So for a 1066mhz fsb clock speed, you need DDR2-533, if you're running at the 1333mhz fsb speed, you need DDR2-667. If you're overclocking above 1333, you'll likely need DDR2-800."


That is incorrect. DDR2-800 is two 400mhz sticks of ram. The number next to DDR2- is the total speed. The dual core processors have a lower FSB, but they can work with that because with two cores, the front side bus is dual-pumped. That is one of the things that keeps the price down. You are thinking of single core processors. Most new motherboards have FSB speeds that are much higher than what you would ever use.
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AndrewT
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 00:54
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Thanks much for the replies, you guys are really helping out.

Okay, I've configured two PC's, one at IBuyPower and one at CyberPower...

http://www.ibuypower.com/ibp/store/configurator.aspx?mid=72

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/inf8000.asp?v=d

If possible, I'd like some suggestions on those and they're quality.

I'm aiming for about $1500, if it helps.

Also, would I be better off with two cards using SLI? Or should I stick with one more powerful one?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 01:03
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Quote: "The data rate, or bandwidth, is just the frequency multiplied by 8 because DDR2 RAM can transfer 8 bytes of information on each clock cycle."


http://www.tomscomputerguide.com/ram.html

According to the above site, you multiply the clock rate by 8 as I noted. Implying that you buy ram in accordance to what your processor's fsb is listed as.

Of course, unlike what my sig says, it may not be true, so I'm doing a bit more digging


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AndrewT
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 01:17
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Thanks for the link.

I can program, but I'm not great with computer parts, so you guys are really helping.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 01:24
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Quote: "On the Intel side, DDR2-533 in dual-channel mode is an exact match in both bandwidth and clock speed to its current FSB1066, and DDR2-667 in dual-channel mode exactly matches the next-generation FSB1333. Slightly better performance numbers are often achieved using faster-than-matching memory, but this is mostly due to decreased latency as cycle times become shorter.

PC2-4300 is fast enough for most DDR2 systems, PC2-5300 will provide a slight performance gain, and PC2-6400, while nice, is not entirely necessary. But what about low-cost systems that still use outdated "regular DDR" (a.k.a. DDR-1) memory?"


http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/11/20/how_to_build_part_1/page6.html

The final word on the subject

Andrew, have you thought about building your own? As it's quite a bit cheaper at newegg.com, you'll prolly save a few hundred or so (or have a few hundred invested in better components).

As for your sli question, I've been told one 8800 is faster than 2 8600gts's... So my suspicion is to get one high end card, but of course I've not researched that in too much detail.


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AndrewT
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 01:33 Edited at: 6th Sep 2007 01:36
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I have considered building my own, but considering my knowledge of computer parts, I felt I may have trouble. For instance, I'm totally unsure about what PSU would be suitable and what parts would be compatible with a specific motherboard. However, I'll take a look at the price differences and consider it.

Haha, not to mention the fact that my parents might not find me responsible enough to buy several fragile computer parts and assemble them on my own.

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