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Dark GDK / DGDK .NET in webbrowser

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Niels Henriksen
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 18:25
Maybe I should try before Im asking, but Im just curious...

Is it possible to use DGDK.NET in the webbrowser (IE)? I know its possible to make a winform in IE in .NET but could be funny if it could be done with DGDK.NET

Niels Henriksen
Working on a (MMO)RPG right now in LightEngine
http://noggs.netopcom.dk/forum/default.asp - Forum for the game
James Bondo
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Location: Denmark
Posted: 6th Sep 2007 19:23
I tried that but couldnt get it to work.

Using Dark GDK.NET
APEXnow
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 19:59
The component would need to be made into an ActiveX control, which would also probably cause issues for security as well, so the answer to this is most likely no.

Paul.

jason p sage
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 04:15
I disagree in theory with APEXNow - but I'd say "No" just to discourage you - because it would take a LOT of work to do it right.

In theory - ActiveX controls are Browser Helper Objects. Browser Helper Objects ARE always a security ISSUE because they are actual binaries that run on your PC with full rights (AFAIK) to system resources. They are actual programs - with full hardware access. So - in theory it could be done. The user would need the full DirectX compliment of course and it would be trick to get an ActiveX control to work with DarkGDK though - the C++ uses a wrapped "void main" (which is why C++ users don't need to wrestle with the 2nd security key thing and support app that C# users need) and the list of complications go on - but in theory - it could work.

I have a much easier solution for a DirectX video game that works from a web page though ... Download link to installer

You know I had a conversation on the DBPro board - another guy was trying to make a web browser appear and function within a DirectX app - and frankly that is probably possible with some BitMap Rips and some keyboard and mouse routing... but it would go painfully slow.

APEXnow
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 09:32 Edited at: 11th Sep 2007 09:33
Quote: "I disagree in theory with APEXNow - but I'd say "No" just to discourage you "


Quote: "In theory - ActiveX controls are Browser Helper Objects. Browser Helper Objects ARE always a security ISSUE because they are actual binaries that run on your PC with full rights (AFAIK) to system resources"


When I actually said:

Quote: "The component would need to be made into an ActiveX control, which would also probably cause issues for security "


Could you elaborate on why you disagree with my theory? They amount to the same thing we both said?



Paul.

[EDIT] typo

Zarillo
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 10:32
I've tried this one too, but with no luck.
I got a tip from the IRC-channel about a program called igLoader but the manual was not good enough so I wasn't able to get it to work.

I would really like to get DarkGDK to run on a website but I have no experience in ActiveX so I have no idea how to solve this...

/All The Best,
Zarillo
www.3dstudio.fi
jason p sage
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 14:30
Only this part Apex
Quote: "so the answer to this is most likely no.
"
but then I made sure to jokingly add
Quote: "but I'd say "No" just to discourage you - because it would take a LOT of work to do it right."


I don't disagree with how you said it would need to be done - I just played on the "the answer to this is likely no" with a geeky response along the lines of "Well technically its YES - but your sick if you get it to work"



Apex - You're on point all the time - no offense meant at all. You've been a big help to MANY of us on here

APEXnow
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 20:09
jason p sage, no offence taken, and thanks for the appreciation. But seriously, I was just genuinely curious, as it may be possible to do it in a browser if the component and security issues are sorted. RealPlayer and Flash do some sort of 3D interface stuff as well, so it'd probably amount to some major changes to the engine anyway.

Interesting idea though.

Paul.

jason p sage
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 01:28
@APEXnow - I do think its possible - and I would go so far as to say it would be cool to do - in fact for an online game - where resources on your harddrive were an ok thing - for bitmaps etc - like a cache sorta - it could be an interesting Active-x component. I have not made to many active-x things - but I'm sure there must be a way to make one in C# (I know there is in C++ though I haven't tried - only vb6 have I played there in active x land)

Now in the browser would be cool - but - framerates I found aren't as "awesome" as fullscreen. Though - depending on app - could be PERFECT.

kBessa
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 04:55
Ok, here's what I got (Just some quotes, not the full message)

Quote: "
Unhandled exception has ocurred in a component in your application...

Could not load assembly DGDPlugin... Failed to grant minimun permission requests (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80131417)"


Ok, I don't remember now, but I have seen somewhere an example of a DirectX application running in IE, but that's an app done for that, I really don't think it's possible with DGDK.NET, as everything should be in only one DLL.

I may try it later when I get a better hang of Managed DirectX, if it I can do a spinning DX triangle in IE. I'll keep everyone updated.

Thiago
jason p sage
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 13:13
@kbessa - I'd do a formal "contact us" question to TGC to see if that's thier message if that persists.

My first "thought" when seeing "Permissions" while in the subject of IE and Active X is that you may have an IE setting (Remember there are many) that is just not allowing something to happen that needs to. This isn't my forte' here - but at work I work with Microsoft Dynamics CRM alot - and it has a very "Controlling" active-x control you need to give permission to run. Even when its installed and running though - some things you may do in CODE may still bomb out if certain permissions aren't enabled.

For instance. To add an RSS control - you need to have a javascript in your page that loads a frame with another web page (one with a stock market ticker for example) and there is a specific permission buried in there that allows/disallows that very action.

My point is there may be a setting specifically stopping your app from running giving you that error. In theory - (CORRECT ME IF I'm wrong everyone/anyone) - if you turn on all the permissions - the activex control will have the same "resources" available to it and the same "abilities" as regular applications on your computer. Its just IE filtering things you can and can't do.

Though I am well aware this may not be your problem - but I just wanted to remind you of potential "show stoppers" (that can be remedied) of working with Active-x in IE.

Good Luck

kBessa
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 20:28
@jason: Actually, that really isn't important for me, so it is useless for me to spend my few spare time on this one, that's just a small app I put up in 15 minutes to test Niels idea, but it did not work (well, it worked as a common Windows Forms app, but when I tried to connect with DGDK.NET.. BANG! Broken).

Sorry Niels, I'd like to better help on this, but I already have to focus on LightUI and LightTextEx (and probably other plugins). I think you will also agree that they are more important now.
jason p sage
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 20:50
@kBessa - Understood - Great effort - great job on your library too.

kBessa
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 22:50
YAY! Thanks

I just wished I could have more time to work on it...
jason p sage
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 02:22
Niels Henriksen
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 22:33
Quote: "Sorry Niels, I'd like to better help on this, but I already have to focus on LightUI and LightTextEx (and probably other plugins). I think you will also agree that they are more important now."


Sure no problem .... Was just thinking if it could be done

Niels Henriksen
Working on a (MMO)RPG right now in LightEngine
http://noggs.netopcom.dk/forum/default.asp - Forum for the game
Zarillo
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Posted: 17th Sep 2007 15:02
Hello,

Is there a way to display the 3D engine in a WebBrowser??

Jason P Sage
you wrote: "I have a much easier solution for a DirectX video game that works from a web page though"...Can you explain more?

I would appreciate all help could get!

//Zarillo

/All The Best,
Zarillo
www.3dstudio.fi
jason p sage
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Posted: 17th Sep 2007 16:04
@Zarillo - My apologies are in order. I was actually thinking at the time of writing this how many obstacles there would be and I was being sarcastic... the rest of the quote...

Quote: "I have a much easier solution for a DirectX video game that works from a web page though ... Download link to installer"


Specifically the "Download link to installer" was saying its much easier to make regular DirectX game and have it be made downloadable.

there are manything that would make running a DirectX (via DarkGDK or however) Difficult. there is security to contend with, the encapsulation of the "game" or whatever in an active-x control (that would be rather large).

Depending on what you are trying to do - you might do what many old timer's (like me) did in the BBS era - when we just had modems (1200 baud or 9600 if you were lucky).

The "network" was a slow stream of characters. These charaters told our "Browser's" or "Terminal Software" where to draw the letters, the color, etc.

Big Deal Right?

BUT.... what we would do is make "Front end Applications" (Like a game that was a compield binary) that would communicate via this stream of text - and it would drive the Game.

This meant - only the initial download, updates after that - and fast performance because everything ran local.

I've just described what todays typical multi-player internet game programs do. This is why I made the joke about the download being much easier.

Didn't mean to catch anyone off guard.

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