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Dark GDK / Starting

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Kenomica_deleted
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 16:28
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Hey, I'm completely new to programming...I know literally nothing about it.

This program has my interest as I know C++ is a leading language and want to start programming games (I know this won't happen for a while)

I have a college project to create a game using anything I want...but I'd love to learn to program using this software. I have a full year deadline and thought it would be a good amount of time to teach myself.

Sorry for the long introduction, but my question is : can anyone recommend any books that would greatly help me learn to program in terms of gaming? As I've said, I'm completely new.

Thank you.

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RPDan
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 18:43
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I have 'Programming Role Playing Games with Direct X 9' by Jim Adams, which is a great book. I am using a lot of the ideas in that book and changing them to work with DarkGDK, as the 3d library that comes with it won't compile for me. This covers sound, input, 2d, 3d and multiplay in detail, as well as how to put it together to create an RPG. It does use some of the 'more advanced' concepts though which it does not cover, so make sure you get a good beginning c++ book as well if you get this (or indeed any other gaming book).
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jason p sage
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 20:23
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Well bro - I'm personally very glad you want to learn C++ and it is a leading programming language and a language that trancends different operating systems. (Various Linux distros, Macintosh, HP-UX, DEC Alpha, FreeBSD etc. unlike C# and other .net things which are primarily a Microsoft thing)

You must be warned: C++ has a steep learning curve. No bones about it. However if you learn it - you will have an easier time learning C#, Javascript, Java (They are different), Pascal and others if you choose. With this is mind - it may take you awhile to get to the point where you are actually "ready" to start making a program that uses the DarkGDK. Its a bear at first - BUT - the dividends are high. If you can code C++ you can learn to code nearly anything fairly quickly.

C# - Has many "constructs" and "syntax" similiar to C++ but has been dumbed down a bit for the sake of being able to build applications faster - (Not necessarily faster applications). Note also that with C# you are more likely to start using the DarkGDK with decent results a bit quicker - and for your 1 year project - this could get you through and is very much as marketable as c++ in many career fields requiring programming skills. It's become a main stream like C++ - but again is Microsoft Specific - which for many companies - is not a problem.

If you are concerned with learning how to program - "Correctly" I would stay away from DarkBasic Professional - and would stick with either the C++ or C#.

That's my bit of advice
Jason P Sage - Coding 26 years this oct2007


http://www.jasonpetersage.com/?PAGE=jpsmain&SECTION=IRONINFANTRY
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Kenomica_deleted
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 22:18
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Thanks for the replies, I'm definitely being pushed more in to purchasing this.

Thanks for the book recommendation too.

One more question, I noticed on the purchase page that you require other (quite expensive) programms to use DarkGDK .. but not with DarkGDK .NET...

I'm quite confused at the difference and need of other programs, any help?

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Pixel Perfect
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 01:43
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You can use DARKGDK with the free Microsoft's Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition which you can download from their web site. It's free for home use but you cannot sell anything you make. I have recently purchased DARKGDK and integrated it successfully with VC++ 2005, its just not immediately obvious how to set up the compiler and linker settings but there are plenty of posts to help you on here, you just need to search a bit. You do need to download the DirectX SDK and the Windows Platform SDK too, but these are free as well. I now have some of my previous game worlds from DBPro up and running and have found it fairly easy, but then I have programmed in C and C++ before.

However, IMHO, if you have never programmed before I would maybe get some practice in Visual Basic first to see how you get on before making the jump to C++. If you're serious about games programming then C++ is the place to be once you know that you enjoy coding!

No matter how good your code is, someone will improve on it
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jason p sage
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 02:21
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Don't know what you are talking about. I'm using the FREE version of Microsoft Visual C++, and I have DarkGDK. DirectX was free, a pain to get the first program to compile - set up took a day!!! A WHOLE DAY! (but now I could do it faster cuz I know why things are this way or that - and I have all the files I had to download)

Now - Addon's cost money - extra tools cost money - BUT you don't NEED THEM to get started. Shoot, you can start playing with the primitives MAKE CUBE MAKE SPHERE etc. to mess around and start learning things. you don't need to buy anything else at first - you will ... not becuase you have to but because you want to Its quite a quagmire - I WANT THAT model in my GAme!!! $$$$ I want REAL TREES ready made I hate drawing them $$$$ I want the best physics engine I can get $$$$$


Seriously - You should be good for awhile with the microsoft C++ compiler and DarkGDK C++. If ANYTHING I THINK you need to buy the full version of Visual Studio 2005 to use C#. That MIGHT be what you meant.

C++ Faster, Harder to learn, C# - easier to code - faster than DarkBasic Pro.

Remember this - Microsoft Windows XP, Vista, and Linux are written in C++ and FreePascal is just as fast. Everything else - well - is written in C++ too behind the scenes. Lose the junk - get the speed - that's the bottom line. But also important is if that junk gets you where you want to be faster - than its not junk. Never an easy decision what lanuguage to use IMO.


http://www.jasonpetersage.com/?PAGE=jpsmain&SECTION=IRONINFANTRY
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jason p sage
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 02:28
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Quote: "If you're serious about games programming then C++ is the place to be once you know that you enjoy coding!"


Listen... that is great advice .... At least see if you like programming first...


http://www.jasonpetersage.com/?PAGE=jpsmain&SECTION=IRONINFANTRY
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kBessa
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Location: Manaus, Amazonas, Brazil
Posted: 13th Sep 2007 05:15
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If you really are new to programming, then I recommend you DGDK.NET.

1 - It can be used with C# or VisualBasic.NET (Both have free express versions).
2 - Setting it up for use is just a simple install (No need for Platform SDK download, and that's about 1GB if I remember, or messing with linker errors).
3 - C# and VB.NET are way easier to learn compared to C++
4 - Compared to DBPro, code is easier to read and understand (at least I think about it this way).

And last, there's the avaibility of LightEngine, the only complete OOP solution for any TGC products, free for all (at least for now, let's this changes a lot in the future). It makes code even easier to write/read.

I hope this helps you out, at least about DGDK.NET.

Anything else, I'll promptly answer (as soon as possible)

Best regards,
Thiago
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jason p sage
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 13:55
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@kBessa - I didn't know Microsoft had free compiler versions for both C and C# - that's cool! I thought they just had Visual Studio 2005 C++ Express.

@Kenomica - that means regardless of which you choose - C++ or C# you can get started without buying anything else to get started!

@kBessa - FYI - that Platform SDK (the big download you mentioned) comes with a lot of help and neat things - you may consider downloading it even though you use C#. It has a lot of information about Microsoft API, Operating System stuff, help files, etc.


http://www.jasonpetersage.com/?PAGE=jpsmain&SECTION=IRONINFANTRY
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James Bondo
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 18:13
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The C# (or just .NET) compiler is already installed on all computers that has the .NET framework.
Go to command line.
cd C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727
csc.exe = C# Compiler
vbc.exe = Visual Basic Compiler
vjc.exe = Visual J# Compiler

So basically, you can write your programs in notepad, but i really dont recommend that. However, you can use SharpDevelop, which is a free (Open Source) IDE that very much resembles Microsoft Visual Studio.
http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/

Using Dark GDK.NET
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kBessa
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 20:52
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@jason: Yeah, I know it. I have almost all SDKs (Platform, DirectX, Windows Mobile, TabletPC, etc.) But I just wanted to emphasize it is not required for DGDK.NET
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jason p sage
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 22:09
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@James Bondo - Cool - thanx for that - I knew that some compiler came with .net - thought only the vb.asp .net ...same principle I guess - especially with the whole CLR thing eh? C# is free?!?!? Woo hoo

@kBessa - Excellent. Understood. I personally never get to read nearly half but when I'm stuck - its helped more than once


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PostalCOW
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Location: San Diego
Posted: 13th Sep 2007 23:38
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As a fellow newbie I like the DarkGDK.NET. C# and VB are a lot easier to do than C++. So for your 1 year project I would recommend that. Also, XNA is just an expansion to C# and you can compile stuff for your XBOX360 with it using the free XNA compiler, it might even work with DarkGDK.NET but I haven't tried it yet. To post stuff on XBOX live or other XBOX360s they want money, not sure how much. My brain turned off when I got to the "Microsoft wants money" part.

The killer of DarkGDK.NET is the lack of documentation and examples. There are OCEANS of them, some good ones too, for DarkBasic, and a bunch for DarkGDK C/C++ but none that I have seen for .NET.

With a 1 year deadline and no programming experience I might recommend DarkBasic. There is some really cool stuff on the work in progress boards made with it, and has oooodles of documentation, examples, and tutorials. The next step up would be the DarkGDK.NET, but not a lot of good examples/tutorials (yet) then the DarkGDK C/C++ which looks to be the most difficult to use but should have the best performance. I would be wary of using the DarkGDK (either version) with no programming experience and a 1 year deadline.

Would you have access to someone with programming experience? Such as a professor who teaches C/C++?

Requirements for life: Food-Water-Video Games!
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Kenomica_deleted
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 03:26 Edited at: 14th Sep 2007 04:06
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Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back, I've only just got my internet reconnected.

I should've mentioned that I have used DarkBASIC pro before but didn't get very far (only due to so much college work....which this timw won't be a problem...as this is the college work).

I considered c++ due to the power and the fact that learning it would generally be more useful later on.

anyway, I didn't realise Microsoft's Visual C++ was free

sorry to sound so noobish, but how is it that they work together? (remember that I am used to having DB pro...which is just a compiler in itself in which I code)


I have a C++ for Dummies book atm, which doesn't focus on gaming at all, but making simple programs. I am hoping to start with this so that I can ease in to the 3D stuff

Just downloaded Visual C++ ...I don't understand what it is...or does .. or what it has to do with DarkGDK...sorry for my lack of knowledge...but I am completely new....can someone explain in lamens terms? :/

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jason p sage
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 03:50
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Um - Its does something not usually seen in C++ (though the Microsoft Framework kinda does it to but not like this!)

I'm new here too - so keep that in mind - and I don't know how TGC did this - cuz I don't use C++ to much besides for this - but in most C++ programs you have a starting place - called "main"



But DarkGDK somehow "get's to use this for itself and gives us a Routine that it EXPECTS us to use - it looks for - and it goes like:




You'll need to learn how dll's work and what C++ headers are and frankly - I have no relation to these people but I use this site all the time to learn from and as reference:
http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/

Go For it Bro~!




http://www.jasonpetersage.com/?PAGE=jpsmain&SECTION=IRONINFANTRY
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PostalCOW
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 05:32
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Jason, I have that site on my favorites. Very handy!

I would expect there would be a tutorial for setting up DarkGDK C/C++. There was a really GREAT tutorial for setting up the DarkGDK.NET and even a video! While .NET programming is easier than C/C++ I still couldn't imagine using DarkGDK.NET without having already made a bunch of .NET programs.

Its going to be a rough learning curve to go from nothing to DarkGDK it is a really impressive tool!

However, the boards here have some of the best people I have seen on game development boards. So its a big plus no matter which way you go!

Requirements for life: Food-Water-Video Games!
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jason p sage
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 14:06
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Here Here - and note I looked but couldn't find it - there was a thread that described step by step - setting up Visual Studio Express - from a user like us - he logged his "steps" etc. and that got me here - I can't find it for the life of me. It should of been a sticky thread. I know its not Visual Studio Pro but had many good things that were pointed out - and if all else failed - you could use the Express just to get started


http://www.jasonpetersage.com/?PAGE=jpsmain&SECTION=IRONINFANTRY
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