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Geek Culture / XP or Vista

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Chris K
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 00:31
I'm getting a laptop - just the cheapest one I can get from Dell, but I can't decide whether to get it with XP (Home) or Vista (Home Basic).

I want it to be able to play Deus Ex, HL1, Hidden & Dangerous, UT... games of that era, is there going to be any compatibility problems?

Also, does Vista boot up any faster or work any better with a dual core processor, will it be any faster with WMP, Messenger etc?

I know hardware compatibility isn't great yet, but the only peripheral I need is the 360 controller and that just got Vista drivers.

I'm leaning towards Vista...

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Chris K
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 00:32
Exactly the same price btw

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 00:38
Well, if you're going to be playing older games such as those you suggested and not ones reliant on DX 10, it may be worth going for XP as it is more compatible with older programs. Not to mention that seeing as it is the cheapest laptop by Dell, you may get better performance from XP due to the massive amount of RAM consumed by that resource hog known to some as Vista. If you are running more than one program at once, there will be little difference between XP and Vista in terms of performance with a dual core. Vista may have made some improvements, though. Doubt it. Can't really improve on XP at all that much.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
GatorHex
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 00:39 Edited at: 13th Sep 2007 00:40
If your going for a cheap one and want to play games avoid the Intel GPU, make sure you get a nVidia or ATI GPU even if it cost a bit more.

It;s very annoying to find games that insist you don't have a vetex pipline with the intel chip.

If the GPU is DX10 go vista else if GPU DX9 go XP could be faster.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Dr Schnitzengruber
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 00:57
I'm running Vista now and prefer it over xp because of speed and performance, But I have some compatibility issues. I can play most well-programed old games, but some games never accounted for windows 6 to ruin their parade. A good test to see if a game is compatible:

Is it a windows-only game?

Was it popular?

does it have multiple disks?

also look for these companies:
Sierra
Impression Games
Electronic arts

They normally make their games ultra-compatible.

error on all lines - expected 'program' got 'garbage'
Samoz83
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 01:44
Quote: "avoid the Intel GPU"


why?!?

www.firelightstudio.co.uk
Kentaree
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 01:48
Intel Graphics are quite poor compared to their AMD and nVidia counterparts, not as fast, and quite often the Intel ones take their memory from RAM

tha_rami
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 02:13
Deus Ex and HD1 work for sure, I have them running here.

Satchmo
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 02:38
Quote: "Quote: "avoid the Intel GPU"

why?!?"


He said Gpu not Cpu.

Your about to get pwned.
GatorHex
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 02:47 Edited at: 13th Sep 2007 03:03
I said why, Intel graphics, even though shader 2/3, don't use vertex pipes (it's emulated in CPU), and games complain/fallover even DBP shadows falls over

2 Cheapest UK Dell laptops

one is Intel CPU + Intel GPU

the other is AMD CPU + ATI GPU

I think you'll have better luck with games with the ATI model.

I already own the Intel cheap skate model so I speak from experience

Personaly I think dell have pushed their prices up a little as all the students are going to college. You might find a better deal to be picked up at Currys.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Aaron Miller
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Playing: osu!
Posted: 13th Sep 2007 07:39
Quote: "AMD and nVidia"

You mean ATI?

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
NG Website Aex.Uni forums
Raven
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 08:48
Quote: "I said why, Intel graphics, even though shader 2/3, don't use vertex pipes (it's emulated in CPU), and games complain/fallover even DBP shadows falls over"


Intel GMA X3000, nForce 6100 or AMD X1250
are all of the current on-board chipset cards used in laptops.

While history has mentioned that Intel should be avoided like the plague; with the X3000 GPU I'd actually say this isn't the case.
Obviously if you can get a full GPU, that doesn't fall-back on the processor for Vertex Shaders .. then go for that.

All of the on-board gpu use a CPU VS system (including AMD and NVIDIA) what's more is the 6100 and X1250 only support VS/PS up to SM2.0; where-as the X3K supports up to SM3.0; what's more is the X3K is quite considerably quicker than the other two.
None of the cards are really slow either, performance wise they're fairly on-par with their PCI-E equivilants.

As far as which to get XP or Vista. If you want better performance in modern games; then XP. For everything else Vista.
I've been able to get far more older games running in Vista, quicker and more stable. Multi-Core support is built-in for all processor types not just classic variations like Pentium-D.

Generally Vista runs quicker than XP. Only issue I've had with performance is the hard disk seems to slow the rest of the system down when accessing between HDD and Memory. Quite irritating when playing games like Half-Life 2.. as I get a nice steady 60fps; only every few seconds when I go into a new area that while loaded, has to grab it from the pagefile that stops or lags for a couple of moments. Makes gameplay through HL2 itself quite irritating as you have to drop down the quality because of lack of memory rather than lack of graphics performance.

That all said, I've been able to get more older games working under Vista than would work in XP. Right now playing through System Shock 2 again

GatorHex
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 15:09
Looks like the intel GMA X3000 GPU will be getting hardware T&L (about time) but don't confuse it with GMA 3000 which doesn't!

I think the current low end laptops Dell sell are using GMA 950 though so stear clear for gaming.

Although i would rather have a Intel M/Core 2 CPU because it runs cooler and quiter than it's AMD counterpart the graphics chip is the main thing for gaming.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Chris K
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 15:19
Thanks everyone I went with Vista in the end, because I basically thought if its complete crap, I can always wipe it and go with XP (I can't do that the other way around), also, SP1 is coming soon (beta is out already) which apparently improves performance above XP.

Quote: "one is Intel CPU + Intel GPU

the other is AMD CPU + ATI GPU

I think you'll have better luck with games with the ATI model."


No way, I went with the Intel, AMD Sempron is one of the worst processors out there, Intel Core Duo is a very good one.

I won't be pushing it games-wise at all, I already have a fairly decent desktop. I just want it to be able to run Project64 quickly, because playing N64 (SSB, OoT) on the train with a 360 controller is freaking awesome, as is Marvel vs. Capcom on MAME.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Chris K
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 15:23 Edited at: 13th Sep 2007 15:24
@ GatorHex

You're right if I was going mainly for gaming I would go for crap processor/better graphics chip, but it will mainly be used for word processing and playing music.

-----------------

Oh my god they just hiked the price by £20! Phew that was close!

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
GatorHex
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 16:25 Edited at: 13th Sep 2007 16:50
Told you they were putting prices up because students going to college

hehehe!

The best time to get a bargain is January-March because they do tax returns in April they try to sell as much stock as possible to make their sales figues look good. I got my bottom of the line model for for £349 and now today the bottom of the line model would cost £399.

You can also get some good Dell deals off ebay sometime when they sell factory seconds / end of line models with full warranty.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 19:04
I'd get it with Vista, because your current computer probably uses XP, so you should have both discs, and then you can choose. Or sell the Vista disc.

Samoz83
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 20:30
Quote: "He said Gpu not Cpu."

sorry i wasn't really awake

www.firelightstudio.co.uk
Clone Gaming Prouductions
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 01:56
Dont get a DELL! Dont there devilish little minions

[image]http://it.pinellas.k12.fl.us/schools/tarpon-ms/images/5F932243494B47158E7D02BBAD979C1F.jpg[/image] Go Spartans!
bitJericho
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 02:00
Quote: "I'd get it with Vista, because your current computer probably uses XP, so you should have both discs, and then you can choose. Or sell the Vista disc."


I doubt you'd be able to resell the vista disc, as it would likely only work in a dell laptop (unless you get lucky and get a regular vista dvd).

GatorHex
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 02:31
I doubt u get a disk it will probably be a hard drive partition.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
bitJericho
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 02:40 Edited at: 16th Sep 2007 02:41
Quote: "I doubt u get a disk it will probably be a hard drive partition."


I'd be pissed :/ But I believe you are wrong, my aunt bought a Dell (against my advice mind you), just a year or so ago. She got a regular (apparently) xp sp2 disc with dell branding on it.

GatorHex
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 02:51 Edited at: 16th Sep 2007 02:52
My Dell Laptop, check out where XP Install hides



DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 02:52 Edited at: 16th Sep 2007 02:54
Didn't you guys leaned nothing about software? It doesn't matter if you have the DVD or not, once it is registered or installed it, you can´t resell it. Because you don´t own the software, you just own a "License", it is just a permission to you to use the software.

Anyways it is installed in a drive partition and you have the serial-key of your license "you actually can download the DVD image, burn it in a DVD -rom legally" it is not considered piracy. (but you can´t resell the copy either)

What I mean is:the DVD/CD doesnt matter, real thing its the license.


Intel Pentium core 2 duo T6600 2,6 mhz 4mb, 4 gb ram 600 mhz ddr2
GatorHex
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 02:56 Edited at: 16th Sep 2007 03:01
It's just MS OS crud u can't sell on, XBox 360 & PC games sell on no problem, I'm not sure about DBP (when I get DBPX i want to sell my old one)

It is cruddy that MS links its OS to you PC hardware if your motherboard dies, or you need to upgrade your MB it can be whole world of hell.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Raven
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 12:24
Quote: "I doubt u get a disk it will probably be a hard drive partition."

Quote: "My Dell Laptop, check out where XP Install hides "


That isn't the full install, it's only the OEM drivers.
What's more the disc you get from them (Recovery Disc) is just a bootloader shadower.

So basically it'll reset hard disks to factory state just prior to XP linking it to that motherboard.

You are allowed to resell you copy of Windows, or the retail key rather provided it isn't an OEM copy. In-fact Microsoft themselves will repurchase them as part of their Geniune Windows Scheme.

That all said, I agree that going DELL is one of those "last hope" choices. I've only bought them for systems I never want to change.
Personally I'd suggest getting a custom system from DABS.

They made me a lovely ITX Case portable system, with a swivel attached tft screen a few years back. Was great for using it on the train; there are also from awesome ACER laptops with similar designs in their tablet pc range where they end up basically being mointors. For the moment I use the ITX one over a laptop because it gives me more freedom to upgrade plus better cooling and cleaning abilities.

Will get myself a new tablet pc when Siemens finally release their paper-thin LCD screens. Cause I'd love to have something that I can just use like paper from a wifi pda box. Alright so not huge amounts of power for gaming, but i'd want it more for sketching without worrying about carrying around a pad with me everywhere.

Chris K
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 14:18
Why does everyone knock Dell so much, are people buying them expecting them to be gaming PCs or easily upgradable?

I would be impressed if anyone can find another Core Duo laptop, 1GB ram with Vista installed for £379 inc VAT and delivery.

Also, contrary to what Raven said, the Operating System disks that come with Dell PCs are just rebranded install CDs. It is illegal to install them on more than one PC though, and it won't let you with the online verification.

When I had an old Dell die, I kept the install disk because you are allowed to install it on a different computer, just not at the same time. You have to phone up MS and give them the number on the new computer (on the holographic seal thing) and they will give you a new verfication key.

They just believe you that your old one died btw, I suppose you could keep it as long as you never went online with it (pretty useless this day in age).

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Raven
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 16:44
Quote: "Why does everyone knock Dell so much, are people buying them expecting them to be gaming PCs or easily upgradable?"


No but we don't expect over-priced machines that have spyware, keyloggers and totally non-upgradable without going through DELL.
What pisses me off is they actually used to be a very good company, until they became basically the only real big computer builder chain.

Monopolising a market has changed them from a name you can rely and trust to be good value and stable, to one that is linked with out-sourcing tech support stereotyping.

Chris K
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 17:25 Edited at: 16th Sep 2007 17:27
You've called them overpriced machines but also failed to find a better one for the same price.

Also, keyloggers?!? Get a grip.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
bitJericho
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 21:19 Edited at: 16th Sep 2007 21:31
We're talking about desktops, not laptops

(put the link in a code box as it's exceptionally long)


Even still, for laptops I'd buy an HP over a dell any day. But if I were to buy a laptop, I'd probably buy something from asus or toshiba.

Samoz83
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 21:24
Quote: "You've called them overpriced machines but also failed to find a better one for the same price"


If you buid it yourself its a lot cheaper (like I did)

www.firelightstudio.co.uk
Chris K
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 21:37
For a desktop yeah, that's exactly what I did with mine, but not for a laptop, especially as it comes with Vista which is about £150 by itself.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Duplex
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 21:56
I went with Novatech, dunno why, but I dont like buying PC's from well known Companys.


Professional, afforable, what more could you want?
Get your FREE Standard Edition Today!
5867Dude
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 21:56 Edited at: 16th Sep 2007 21:57
Chris K
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 22:26
Yeah I'd say that one is probably a better deal actually, it has a slightly better processor (Core 2 Duo over Core Duo).

If I were getting it now I'd go for that one, because Dell have put their price up to £399 anyway.

Your one doesn't include delivery, but there is a Comet quite near me.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Squelchy Tom
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 22:38
Compatability wise chose xp, however in around 3-10 years time everything will be compatible with vista and little with xp. Forums always give bad vista reviews, i dont know why. You might want to check out one of the neutral sites such as newegg/ebuyer etc for some decent ones.

However vista seems the prettyest, but its ugly sister xp is smarter.
5867Dude
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Posted: 17th Sep 2007 09:07
Chris K
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 14:23
OMG!

Get this, Dell just did their 'screw students' stunt where they put the price up and put the specs down, and seeing as I got my order in about 25 minutes before they updated the website, I think they basically didn't have the old (good, cheap) laptop I got.

After waiting for about three weeks, with the order status hanging on Pre-processing, I finally cancelled it yesterday and went and got the Comet one Cool Kid found (thanks!).

Anyway, it's awesome, it's got a much better processor (seriously, an E5500 - that's a freaking sweet Core 2 Duo) but best of all, it came preinstalled with Vista Premium. I guess they had some cock up in the factory, either that or one of the workers there was being generous!

Anyway Vista is gorgeous, and the graphics card on it actually seems quite capable, well, it can deal with all Vista's fancy 3D and Aero effects anyway, I haven't tried any demos.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-

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