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Geek Culture / Multiplayer FPS games - some hating!

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Redmotion
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 01:22
I would enjoy these games - IF - when I was facing an enemy - at point blank range, aiming directly at the throat/head/chest, and letting off a whole hail of bullets - they died. Instead, they stand, turn and fire a single bullet killing me dead.

This, to me, is the mark of a broken game. Has anyone experienced something like this in BF2 or any other multiplayer FPS?

I wouldn't mind if this was a one off, but it happens nearly every time, and is no fun. Does punkbuster even work?

(On a side note, no armed infantry combat is remotely like anything in these games (except for Full spectrum warrior). I mean, when was the last time you saw footage of soldiers bunny hopping down main street in Baghdad?

The crazy
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 01:34
It means your enemy is better than you.

GatorHex
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 02:46 Edited at: 14th Sep 2007 02:49
Hahaha are you playing War Rock? It's the most insecure game I've ever played. It's full of cheats

Punkbuster is a bit like a virus checker, it can't detect zero day threats (stuff that's not been identified yet)

You can become invunrable in most UDP games by just dropping the bullet packets coming in to your client. UDP doesn't resend lost packets or check that they arrived.



DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
SimSmall
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 13:58
Red, you'd love swat 4 ... shooting someone on your own team in their smallest toe with a beanbag shotgun can kill them...
Squelchy Tom
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 18:03
i agree, im playing a realistic ww2 shooter when a flying tank comes past and the whole enemy team is having a bean bag race past my bullets
bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 21:25
Quote: "I would enjoy these games - IF - when I was facing an enemy - at point blank range, aiming directly at the throat/head/chest, and letting off a whole hail of bullets - they died. Instead, they stand, turn and fire a single bullet killing me dead."


It takes practice. They know where to aim to kill you in one shot. You obviously don't. Keep playing and you will get better.

GatorHex
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 21:28 Edited at: 14th Sep 2007 21:36
Quote: "It takes practice. They know where to aim to kill you in one shot. "
It's called Aimbot you lot have lead a sheltered life!

[sticks aimbot into You Tube for ya] here ya go see...

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=aimbot&search=Search

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Redmotion
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 21:45 Edited at: 14th Sep 2007 22:05
Quote: "It takes practice. They know where to aim to kill you in one shot. You obviously don't. Keep playing and you will get better."

So where's the best place to shoot someone in BF2?

But, whether or not this is the case the game sucks. I shot a person in the upper chest with a "burst" from a machine gun (five to six bullets) and he stands there turns around and kills me. one bullet after being hit with five. THAT is bad design. Suspension of disbelief equals ZERO.
Its the same as if I put my chess opponent in check and then he picks up my queen...and eats it.

Quote: "It's called Aimbot you lot have lead a sheltered life!"

I know about them - I had look for one years ago - I just couldn't find any. Aimbots.com?

Anyone know a decent multiplayer shooter? (That isn't full of cheats, geniuses, or people bunny-hopping?! ... oh and people at leqst try to play as a team...)

Oolite
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 21:46
Back in the day i used to be quite good with the rifle on call of duty 2. Due to habit i could pop out, get a headshot and hide back in again in a ridiculously short space of time. I tried playing it again the other day and i seem to have lost touch, couldn't hit anyone.


[Looking for work]
bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 21:53
Quote: "It's called Aimbot"


I'm aware of aimbots, but they are far less common then people suspect. Most people can't tell the difference between skill and an aimbot.

It's easy to tell the difference though, If you can kill them at least sometimes in an open gunfight, then they're probably not using an aimbot

GatorHex
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 21:57 Edited at: 14th Sep 2007 22:16
Quote: "I'm aware of aimbots, but they are far less common then people suspect."


Only because you are from the USA, if you was Brazooka,Polka, Norsk or Svensk you would be given a copy

To get cheats you normaly have to give a cheat your e-mail address in game and they will send it to you, but usually only if you are from their country.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Krilik
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 22:00
This is one of many reasons why I don't play online anymore. It doesn't really bother me that much because if I play enough I get better and it doesn't matter, but there have been things like this in games that are unavoidable and frankly, like you say, it seems broken. No reason to play a broken game.

Like I used to play Delta Force: Task Force Dagger online, but after a while people figured out that you can use an M60 machine and shoot at people from across the map just as effectly as using a scope to any other gun. So basically the game came down to people sitting up on mountains with machine guns firing at little black dots until they killed people.
Raven
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 22:15
Quote: "This, to me, is the mark of a broken game. Has anyone experienced something like this in BF2 or any other multiplayer FPS? "


Counter-Strike it's where AimBot originated from, before that there were other programs; but nothing could really compensate for 56k lag. Most of the time that made it more challenging to fight with, so much so that many people who were crap at games just didn't bother playing.

Remember back in my Quake days, used to add to the script +MLOOK for playing online yet most didn't. It made a WORLD of difference playing, and often was on by default at competitions.

best way around aimbot is to basically keep ducking and jumping; go from one extreme to the other. atleast that was how to beat it back in the last 90s. probably become more sophisticated now.

Another popular cheat/hack was called ShatterBot. It was a complimentary one to AimBot and just as popular, basically what it did was sent fake positional data out where your player model would shift between several positions very very quickly. (i.e. each data packet = different position), most games still compensate for lag by taking position every quater of a section.. the rest of the time the position updates are literally just to server side.

So on the server their character would be basically randomly moving around in a circle; so if someone tried to shoot them a shot would have to be damn lucky to hit them. Yet client side, it would look like they were standing still or moving normally.

You could offload an entire clip in to someone and nothing. People still use this quite a bit on Counter-Strike which is why I only play against those I trust are playing fairly.

I don't mind getting owned by a camper, but when some bastard is cheating just to get kills the game becomes unenjoyable.

Another variant of ShatterBot, is some artificial lag program. As you might know in some games if it doesn't recieve an update for a while it considers someone "lagging" as such makes them pretty much invunerable. That app takes advantage of that so again you could offload a clip into them, when you're reloading they'll then take their hand off the key that stops the updating (usually long before the timeout) and bam. Headshot .. Dead!

Anyone who can't play these games based on their own skill, should not be playing online period.

Best way around these cheats and hacks often is to actually have each client play the games seperate as if they were single player; then have the server simply pass the data between, but also act as an referree or onbudsman. By this I mean if someoe was shot one end - it then checks with the other player if this is what really happened. If they don't match up, then it declares it a cheat.

Basically it's like an incident happening, and the police getting two stories. They have to match up for it to be true, otherwise one of them bastards is lying

To my knowledge there are no games that really employ this method, which is a shame because now broadband of 2Mb+ is the standard; there is enough speed to achieve this quite easily.

bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 22:15
Quote: "Only because you are from the USA, if you was Polka, Norsk or Svensk you would be given a copy

To get cheats you normaly have to give a cheat your e-mail address in game and they will send it to you, but usually only if you are from their country."


How would you know this? Why cheat in a friggin fps, defeats the point

Anyways, if you're so concerned, play in a clan, at least then they have some control over who plays and can have cheaters banned from the private servers.

GatorHex
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 22:19 Edited at: 14th Sep 2007 22:24
I agree cheating ruins the game but Brazil, Poland, Sweden, Norway have cultures where they help their fellow country-men out.

Unlike the USA and most modern countries where it's every-man for themselves

Just learn some phrases if you want cheat...

verzend bedriegen name@myhost.com

post snyter name@myhost.com

emita a fraude name@myhost.com

mande a estafador name@myhost.com

works pretty well

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 22:22
Quote: "To my knowledge there are no games that really employ this method, which is a shame because now broadband of 2Mb+ is the standard; there is enough speed to achieve this quite easily."


This method would be impossible, your external clients would never know for certain the exact moment an event took place (for example, a shot fired), except for your own client. So all the other clients would see the same behavior that doesn't match what your client is saying.

GatorHex
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 22:26 Edited at: 14th Sep 2007 22:46
I've been working on an uncheatable game project kumkie.com/war so watch this space, I might have what you're looking for soon

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Raven
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 02:34
Quote: "This method would be impossible, your external clients would never know for certain the exact moment an event took place (for example, a shot fired), except for your own client. So all the other clients would see the same behavior that doesn't match what your client is saying."


Well the data would still be passed in a traditional mannor, but think about this.

When someone uses something like AimBot, it moves instantly to the target... however using a controller or mouse, you only have so much sensitivity and movement smoothing. So there is only a limited possibly of how quickly something can move realistically speaking. As such on the guy who's using AimBot, it'd move his view instantly; but the angle of their character would still be turning when he took the shot based on these movement restrictions.

So while his system will register a kill, those attached wouldn't.
I mean that's a simple example of how it would work, but basically keeping the systems playing as if it was a single player game with the inputs from the other players means that while that guy might've hacked his game to cheat; those on the other computers will still be using stock.. so they would register something different.

It would still need some more thinking about, as I've not really thought too deeply into this stuff in a while; as the current multiplayer game I've been working on for a while is only going to be for the 360, and if someone can get aimbot or such on that then sod 'em as Microsoft will sort them out through reports and feedback.

Still for the PC it was a concept I'd come up with to combat cheating bastards; as I'm no longer a particularly strong online player and having some cheater sitting there offing me unfairly would just irritate me to the point that I would no longer want to play my own game. Seriously don't see the point in why they do it and don't care either just would want to do my best to prevent it ever happening.

There are a few ways though using server or peer clients where you could prevent such cheating. Be interesting to see what this community came up with, but frankly don't put much faith in it as there are so few multiplayer games developed here.

Quote: "I've been working on an uncheatable game project kumkie.com/war so watch this space, I might have what you're looking for soon "


Certainly is, I mean I can't even get on the bloody thing.. EVER. The entire podcast team tried constantly for a week, and I tried for a further week. As we wanted to review it, but no joy.
Guess if you can't get on, you can't cheat.

Perhaps you might want to add a private server mode for it, especially given the userbase is only accessed via an SQL database connection anyway.

GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 03:32 Edited at: 15th Sep 2007 03:39
My game does work, server is on 24x7

Maybe you have port 3999 blocked somewhere?

if it's a login problem try

username = demo
password = demodemo
2 factor = demo

all lower case.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Redmotion
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 10:14
In a commercial game would someone with a higher speed internet connection be at an advantage or a disadvantage? (Say a 8mbps versus a 56k dial up).

Grandma
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 10:32 Edited at: 15th Sep 2007 10:33
Quote: "Only because you are from the USA, if you was Polka, Norsk or Svensk you would be given a copy"


I take offence to that , i've been to my fair share of LAN parties, (big sponsored ones and private). There's never any cheating, in the offchance someone might cheat, they are kicked out, and the PC comes flying after. Zero tolerance.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

Making yesterdays games, today!
Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 12:01
Quote: "works pretty well"

I didn't know you were so into cheating.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
Raven
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 14:00
Quote: "My game does work, server is on 24x7

Maybe you have port 3999 blocked somewhere?

if it's a login problem try"


Port is unblocked, absolutely no problems logging in.
After logging in though, it'll just sit there constantly printing "server is currently unreachable"; out of all the multiplayer games up right now, you're is the only one i'm unable to access.

I know that I'm not alone with this either, as I was going to post about it in your thread when it happened; and noticed someone else had already mentioned this issue. If it was just my machine, then fair enough; but as I said the entire podcast team tried and we just couldn't connect to your server.

I'd think that it might be a Vista issue, but Kentaree uses XP Professional still. So ruled that out. We've all tried via our wireless routers, and both myself and Kenjar tried directly connecting our broadband modems (in-fact that is the default setup I have).

Windows has allowed all port access to the app, my router also has.
Currently it is the only multiplayer game I cannot access the server to and I play quite a few games online on both my Windows, Xbox360 and Playstation3 platforms.

Seriously, not an issue this end. If it was Live would die, and trust me it loves dying on Vista in Halo 2; but it's been fine since the 1.1 update. Perhaps you might want to look at the network system you're using; if it's forced to port 3999 then you can't be using the built-in one.

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 14:02
Have you forwarded the ports correctly, whoever runs the server?


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 15:34
Hmmm.. I was thinking it had been quiet but noone said anything.

Wierd, I'll look at it after Monday, got the presentation and demo to do at Uni for it. Maybe I've changed the password in the client or the router is playing up or something.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer

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