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Geek Culture / xna question

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03apples
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 04:46
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i saw the new game engine called xna make by microsoft and i am thinking of using it for making commercial games. Does microsoft allow me to sell my games i make and publish them?
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 05:01
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No. XNA can only be used for freeware games.

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
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Robert F
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 05:17
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is that program even any good?

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 05:20
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It's the only thing that works on the XBOX 360 I believe... But it requires C# and the use of .NET, which is rather limiting to some people, plus others don't even have the .NET framework on their computer, then the download for XNA is around 100MB, which is even further limiting.

Torque managed to get around that whole commercial barrier though, because they made something that "uses" XNA, but wasn't "made" with XNA, the thing is that that's a new game making device, and I don't know if the rules of XNA would apply or not, I'm pretty sure they would though...

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 08:48
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Right now XNA is for freeware games--- and you have to give your code to somebody so they can compile it if they want to play. Eventually they will enable developers to trade their compiled games so the source isn't revealed. Finally, there will be opportunities to publish the game on Live Arcade.

All this info can be found on the XNA website by the way.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 09:50
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I said what Jeku said except without a lot of what he said.

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 12:13
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I thought I saw somewhere that PGR 3 was made with XNA :/ Oh well.

"It's like floating a boat on a liquid that I don't know, but I'm quite happy to drink it if I'm thirsty enough" - Me being a good programmer but sucking at computers
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Torsten Sorensen
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 12:42
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Quote: "I thought I saw somewhere that PGR 3 was made with XNA"

Hahahahaha!





Nintendo Fanboy: 37%, Sony Fanboy: 25%, Microsoft Fanboy: 39%
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03apples
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 15:00 Edited at: 21st Sep 2007 15:01
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wow thanks guys with all the help, but it would have been great if i could make commercial games and publish them. I heard about xna studio 2.0 and that it was going to be released soon, but i couldn't find much info on it. when it gets released will the games i make be freeware or can i make them commercial games and publish them.
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Zappo
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 15:23
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If you haven't used C# before I wouldn't jump the gun and start worrying about commercial quality games. Its not as easy to produce quality stuff as MS like to make out.
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Chris K
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 17:07
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Quote: "I thought I saw somewhere that PGR 3 was made with XNA"


It wasn't, but this was: http://www.xnaracinggame.com/



-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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03apples
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 22:10
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Quote: "If you haven't used C# before I wouldn't jump the gun and start worrying about commercial quality games. Its not as easy to produce quality stuff as MS like to make out. "


Thats true, but still you have more power and speed with xna than darkbasic pro even though it is a bit harder.
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Deathead
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 22:52
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@03apples: If you saved up alot. You could resort to using the torque engine. It also has a Wii plugin for it. But you still will have to know C++ or something close to C++.

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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 22:57
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Quote: "Thats true, but still you have more power and speed with xna than darkbasic pro even though it is a bit harder."


A bit of an understatement there XNA can be considered quite a bit more technically challenging than DBP. As you get up the challenging scale you can expect to have more freedom in return. C++ is more challenging than C# and XNA, and you can create virtually anything with it though. C# is easier to use than C++, but there's a reason why the game industry doesn't use it to power their games.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 23:01
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Quote: " but there's a reason why the game industry doesn't use it to power their games."

...yet.

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 23:06
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Well, be prepared to wait a long time before C# becomes industry standard. Sure, a few companies here and there might switch over, but I can't see C++ going away anytime in the foreseeable future.

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Chris K
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 23:08
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I'm not sure it is particularly more powerful than DBPro either (maybe in speed, not really in features), it just lets you run your code on a 360 which is one hell of a selling point.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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DSG
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Posted: 21st Sep 2007 23:11
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Just to clear up some of the mis-information in this thread:

- You can use XNA to produce commercial software on the PC. The 'Freeware' restriction is only for development on the XBOX 360 console.

- The XNA redistributable is NOT 100MB - that's the figure for the SDK. End users only need the redistributable which is a measly 2MB. If the end user does not have .NET 2.0, then the redistributable for that is a further 23MB.

Danny Gregory BSc
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2007 14:17
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@DSG
I never said it was the redistributable.

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
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John Y
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2007 14:20
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Quote: "Just to clear up some of the mis-information in this thread:

- You can use XNA to produce commercial software on the PC. The 'Freeware' restriction is only for development on the XBOX 360 console.

- The XNA redistributable is NOT 100MB - that's the figure for the SDK. End users only need the redistributable which is a measly 2MB. If the end user does not have .NET 2.0, then the redistributable for that is a further 23MB."


Correct, was going to say the same thing myself.

Synergy Editor - Available in the WIP forum
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2007 14:31 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2007 14:35
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nevermind

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03apples
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2007 22:56
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i was looking at irrlicht and saw it was good and thought i could give it a try, but when you make a game with irrlicht and irredit do u hav to make you source code available when you sell your game? Irrlicht seems to be very powerful and very fast. So far searching though many engines i see darkbasic pro is still one of the best on my list.
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2007 05:13
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http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/license.html

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03apples
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2007 16:46
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thanks, but i saw it before and didnt understand the restrictions.
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Raven
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 10:21
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Quote: "i saw the new game engine called xna make by microsoft and i am thinking of using it for making commercial games. Does microsoft allow me to sell my games i make and publish them? "


XNA is not an engine, but a cross-platform API for managed languages (right now only C# is officially supported) to develop applications on both the xbox 360 and windows operating systems without having to program platform specifics.

Basically code you make for Windows, will compile and run on the Xbox 360 without having to change anything. In traditional native programming you have to develop quite a number of changes to get a program to run on multiple platforms. XNA is Microsoft's effort to eliminate this.

You still have to program your OWN engine with it as it is an API, to directly control hardware through the platform OS; rather than an engine created for the specific task of making a game.
There is TorqueX, which is the Torque game engine built-on the XNA Framework.

Currently no you may not sell XNA games, nor are you allowed to publish only release binaries. You may only share games via source although you may release with a pre-built runtime for Windows.

The Commercial version due later this year, will have these restrictions lifted.

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