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Geek Culture / FPSC x10

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Redmotion
21
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Joined: 16th Jan 2003
Location: Mmm mmm.. Marmite
Posted: 28th Sep 2007 16:33
Making the FPSC x10 exclusive to DX10, along with spending all TGCs time and resources doing it is IMHO ... dangerous.

http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

1092762 users were surveyed. This survey is probably 100 times bigger than the average survey that you see quoted in news articles so it is likely to be a good reflection on the entire PC game buying/playing/making public.

current results:
Windows Version = Windows XP 986,985 90.33 %
Windows Vista 87,269 7.99 %

DirectX10 Systems (Vista with DirectX10 GPU) - 2.31% of users

All AAA PC games once DX10 only have now switched back to support DX9. Even Crysis is DX9 compatible now - these people know now that relying on DX10 at this moment in time is financial suicide.

I wonder why TGC don\'t give a DX9 option for FPSC X10.

BatVink
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21
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Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 28th Sep 2007 18:45 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 18:46
Many of the features of FPSC X10 will help drive the change to DX10. Admittedly, it's not going to change the world all by itself, but there are a lot of comapnies supporting TGC's development in this area. Rick mentioned this in the Q&A session the other night.

I would also highlight the point that the development cycle always impacts other products. FPSC 1.07 was released this month with technology updates ported from FPSC X10. Dark AI got a makeover, and I'm sure Dark LIGHTS has been improved when it was brought in to the FPSC fold. Lee has already mentioned that DBP X10 has a headstart as a result too.

So I agree, DX10 is still on the starting blocks. But it will never take off until there is a need for it.

Agent Dink
20
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Joined: 30th Mar 2004
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 18:52
The Q&A session with TGC revealed that the DX9 versions of both DBP and FPSC will be continued for a long time. They realize that the Direct X 10 jump won't be complete for a long time.

Master Xilo
18
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Joined: 8th Sep 2006
Location: Bern, Switzerland
Posted: 6th Oct 2007 03:32
hmm...

But all the people who ALREADY have a DX10 system (around 20'000 in this survey) only have this for gaming or showing others how many money they have or to see good graphics, so all of them will buy any dx10 game/product
GatorHex
19
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Joined: 5th Apr 2005
Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 6th Oct 2007 03:48 Edited at: 6th Oct 2007 03:50
Vista will be forced upon us all, give it time, you will be assimilated to the Borg too, resistance is futile!

A developer always produces a new product a few years ahead of it going to market. I think TCG have probably got their timing just right.

Realy I can't wait to see DBPX

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Plystire
21
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Joined: 18th Feb 2003
Location: Staring into the digital ether
Posted: 6th Oct 2007 04:01 Edited at: 6th Oct 2007 04:02
It's not about who has money and who doesn't, it's about keeping up with the times!

If you were a programmer for longer than two years you'd be well aware of that by now! Programmers go to school to learn how to develop for the current systems, and by the time they get out, the languages they learned in have been depricated and no body wants to hire them! So, the SMART programmers get their hands dirty and go learn about things that JUST came fresh off the market. No body's gonna hire a DX9 programmer anymore, face it, not when they have DX10 programmers to choose from! It's the sad horrifying truth behind it all. If you get stuck behind the crowd of everyone being "assimilated" into the new systems, you're out of a job.

If you don't program for a living, lucky you! Take your time, take your time, but you will come over one day. You can't be stuck in QB forever...... trust me on that one.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

In Soviet Russia, road forks you!

Mom: I may not be the alpha and omega, but I can sure as hell be yours!
Jeku
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 6th Oct 2007 11:54
Quote: "No body's gonna hire a DX9 programmer anymore, face it, not when they have DX10 programmers to choose from!"


It's not quite that harsh yet. DX9 experience is still invaluable. Maybe if you're still using DX3 or lower you might have to upgrade your skillset.

Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 6th Oct 2007 13:40
Quote: "A developer always produces a new product a few years ahead of it going to market. I think TCG have probably got their timing just right"


We shall see, remember this product is already 5months after when they projected to release it; despite this fact the market still hasn't caught up enough for it to seem financially sound.

I mean one of the biggest differences with DirectX10 over previous releases, is you must have hardware to support it in any form. This also includes having the Operating System.

Yes, the home market has really taken up Vista quite well with at last check 70million people using it worldwide now. The thing is very few have been willing until recently to spend money on DirectX10 cards. Simply because until very recently there were no budget solutions.. as is shown in the Valve survey something echoed throughout many like GameSpy and Futuremark, system spec checkers; is the most common graphics cards are between budget and mid-range not even from the previous generation but often a generation or two behind.

Shader 3.0 cards for example are just becoming popular enough to make it worthwhile creating software that supports it.

You could argue, that a few years back when shader cards were just coming to market that id Software took a big leap and gamble on that the technology would eventually catch up to their engine. The gamble sort of paid off with them leading the pack in what could be done with the technology.. however other companies like Core Design werent so lucky gambling on DirectX9.0 when it was first released.

The question isn't so much is this the best time to act, but realistically ... is TGC big enough a name to pull it off?
If companies like Crytek are having second thoughts about the techonology and frankly they're pretty much a safe bet on if something will sell or not now; then the answer for TGC even with NVIDIA backing them up is no.

It's a simple fact that cards don't sell software, it's the software that sells cards.

Quote: "No body's gonna hire a DX9 programmer anymore, face it, not when they have DX10 programmers to choose from! It's the sad horrifying truth behind it all. If you get stuck behind the crowd of everyone being "assimilated" into the new systems, you're out of a job."


Get a grip, DirectX9 is going nowhere. It takes atleast 12months for transition between software and hardware, with longer and longer development times; I would say we won't be seeing any worthwhile DirectX10 games until atleast this time next year. Even then it's going to take until CES or E3 2008 for other companies to start following suit.

Part of the problem with DirectX10 is as I said above, it's an all-or-nothing move. With DirectX9Ex providing the enhancements between DirectX9.0c and 10.0 bridging the gap between not only Windows platforms but also the Xbox 360 enhancements to DirectX9; frankly it would suggest if any DirectX10 development goes on it's going to take a back-seat to DirectX9 for the forseeable future.

Yes, we've been shown a visual enhancement from the technology; but at the same time we've also been shown that the hardware just isn't there yet to support these enhancements.

Frankly I've yet to see any real benefit over DirectX9 Ex.. I mean I've seen Lee claiming alot of things from the earlier FPSC X10 videos, but quite frankly I've seen Gears of War running happily on a budget Shader 3.0 card at 60fps; and FPS Creator X10 nor the DirectX10 enhanced games imo really add that much (if any real visual enhancement) over that game which is still using old Dx9 technology.

I mean this is all like saying "OpenGL3 will be the end of traditional OpenGL1.x/2.x when it's released", it'll not only take time for people to learn; but also for the hardware to support it; then developers to support it, etc..

the whole process takes much longer than the 9months that DirectX10 itself has actually been officially out of beta. Hell it spent 6months alone in Technical Preview, let alone however long they'd been working on it before hand.

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