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Geek Culture / Why do games cost so much to make?

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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 19:48
Been wondering lately. what makes developing a commercial game cost millions of pounds? Everything they need is either in their head or on their computers. Where's all this money come from?

Grandma
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 19:50 Edited at: 11th Oct 2007 19:51
Coffee.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

Making yesterdays games, today!
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 19:51
Grandma, you obviously need more. You missed an e.

Grandma
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 19:52
No, i didn't.....you didn't see that.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 19:52
Paying a team of 15 or more skilled people with a salary of $40,000 a year or more. Paying for all the necessary tools, software, licenses, computer systems, marketing and advertising. It's a business. There's a lot of overhead.

GatorHex
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 19:53 Edited at: 11th Oct 2007 19:54
£20k-30k per programmer soon adds up never mind marketing and production costs on top.

Team of 50 x £20k = £1m

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Jeku
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 19:55 Edited at: 11th Oct 2007 19:56
A staff of 50-100 people over 2-5 years to make a next-gen game. If you cut the staff number down, be prepared to increase the years or decrease the quality.

Buying a game engine can cost half a million. Licenses for Photoshop, Maya, Windows XP Pro, etc. for 50-100 people. Then make sure they each have up-to-date computers to increase their efficiency. Oh, and don't forget they need devkits which are not cheap (15k for PSP, more for next-gen systems). Oh, and it's not cheap to buy or rent out office space to accommodate 100 people, and give them enough room so they're not crammed into tight little spaces.

And then there's publishing the game and advertising it on TV, magazines, movie theatres, etc.

Sure, two people can make a great indie game but then you almost never get the attention of the big publishers and nobody ends up playing your game. If you're lucky you can cheaply make a game and get it signed onto XBLA or PSN (Everyday Shooter, Flow, etc.) But you still have to have marketers, dev kits, licenses, etc.

Hopefully I've covered enough here

Zotoaster
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 19:56
It might cost nothing to make it yourself, but when you have a whole group of people with families to feed, they aint gonna do it for free.

"It's like floating a boat on a liquid that I don't know, but I'm quite happy to drink it if I'm thirsty enough" - Me being a good programmer but sucking at computers
GatorHex
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 19:58 Edited at: 11th Oct 2007 19:58
I'm still working on the not doing it for free bit.. somone save me from Aldi/Lidl food

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 20:22
When you look at it closely most of it is taxes in one form or another Not to forget that a huge amount of time is spent on communications and documentation, that's not a problem if you're 1 guy.

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Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 20:40
If you watch the end of fable it tells you how many different meals they paid for :p Thats where all the money from the video game industry goes, to the food industry..

~*~ Life Is Temporary, Gaming Is Eternal ~*~
Raven
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 21:32
Quote: "If you watch the end of fable it tells you how many different meals they paid for"


That's note entirely true, quite a number of people on Credits for games aren't paid out of the game budget but from the gross profits.

Remember there's far more involved in advertisement, publishing, public relations, etc. than there are developing most of the time.
Hell the team that worked on Perfect Dark Zero was 25 people in total; but the credits roll for almost 5minutes with over a hundred names. Only those 25 people were paid during development, the rest were post production, previous platform teams, etc..

The pay-rates of most of the developers ranged from £20-50,000 p.a.
Over the final 24months development time (when the 360 version started development)
Add to this the usage of Havok Physics, Voice Acting, etc. I mean it's good that music was in-house otherwise that's also alot more than it ends up being.

I mean you add in the electronics, software, electricity, etc.
You think "games are getting more expensive to develop", and to a degree this is true as they're taking longer. However teams are generally still the same size as ever for most developers, add to this inflation rates for both pay-rates and middleware.

A decade ago £15,000 was actually a reasonable amount to earn; nowadays however they provide you with enhancements to pay if you earn that little because it's practically welfare.

So the fact that pay has increase over £10,000 minimum per staff member isn't surprising.

You just think about it a while, factor in everything and you can see why it seems like it's begining to cost too much. This said, tbh I think most developers just throw away money most of the time now.

Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 22:02
... I was making a joke about the large amount of fast food that was consumed over the development of the game... Its ok I won't hold the lack of a sence of humor get to me, you are from england afterall (and in case you still dont comprehend humor, IM JUST JOKING)

~*~ Life Is Temporary, Gaming Is Eternal ~*~
Accoun
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 22:41
Quote: "Remember there's far more involved in advertisement, publishing, public relations, etc. than there are developing most of the time."

Yeah, if a game costs $1.000.000 to make, advertising is $5.000.000.

Make games, not war.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 22:49
Staffing mostly, some game engines like Unreal cost a massive amount in itself - plus things like Unreal charge extra per-system you install it onto. But generally the money goes on paying people to do their job, bills, letting (if their office building is to let) and all sorts. Everything adds up in the end, I mean people don't work for free and professionals aren't cheap.



But in the end the profits are big enough.

I shot the sheriff
Jeku
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 23:00
Quote: "But in the end the profits are big enough."


Considering only 1 out of 10 games make a profit, so it's a fairly large gamble.

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 23:15
Is that true? That sounds like a bit low. I'm not pretending I know anything about the subject, though.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 23:46 Edited at: 11th Oct 2007 23:47
Edit:

Oh yeah we're talking about profit not income... lol

I shot the sheriff
Deathead
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 23:50
@INH: I made a new craze! The fake bug craze!lol
On-topic: I think its because of the expence the people get paid and alot of it goes to the publisher. And ofcourse coffee.

-Go onto the forums its nice! Join now!
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 00:29
The game industry have ever since the CD suffered from huge cost in media and not enough sales. The movie industry have it nice, most movies at least break even in the end after it's been to cinema, DVD, TV etc. With games only the big success games really brings in the money and there's only room for a handful.

There's a huge waste of money going on because technology is always moving ahead and much is never recycled yet a lot of effort is put in to make everything perfect or the game may end up not selling at all, it's a tough competition. You also have to rush development (which costs more) or what you make will be too old when it's released.

This is the biggest reason for all the clones and sequels, you want to play it safe when there's a huge financial risk involved.

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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 00:50
@Jeku: Yeah, that would just about cover it.

Quote: "It might cost nothing to make it yourself, but when you have a whole group of people with families to feed, they aint gonna do it for free."
Make 'em!

Quote: "Thats where all the money from the video game industry goes, to the food industry.."


I guess that explains this

@Raven: Good point.

Quote: "(and in case you still dont comprehend humor, IM JUST JOKING)"

I don't get it
(Bit o' Brit humour there for ya, you ignorant unfunny Canadian!)
OK, NOW I'm kdding!
Or am I?

Hmm...

Oolite
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 00:53
The most money goes into paying off sites such as GameSpot to give your game good reviews..



...

Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 00:57
Quote: "(Bit o' Brit humour there for ya, you ignorant unfunny Canadian!)
OK, NOW I'm kdding!
Or am I?"


Noo doot aboot it

~*~ Life Is Temporary, Gaming Is Eternal ~*~
Pus In Boots
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 21:24
lol

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