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Music & Sound FX / Although we don't set the rules, what do you think the rules for this should be?

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Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 17th Oct 2007 22:54
Well with a new section of the forum, comes new problems that we will run into... So here is a place to suggest things that you think should be considered "rules" for this board.

My ideas.
1. Just because somebody posts a sound effect, or track here to listen to doesn't mean its open, royalty free to use. Ask before taking.
2. Unless you are researching what sort of sounds the people of TGC like, don't flood here with "What's your favorite band?" or "I LOVE THE BACKSTREET BOYS" posts
3. Don't post that which is not legally yours
4. Don't ask someone for the newest [insert band name] torrent


Any other ideas people?



~*~ Go Go Pwnzer Rangers ~*~
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 17th Oct 2007 22:57
How about:
Don't post five second 'what do you think of my music/SFX' posts with little effort put into the sounds.

the rabi

Jeku
Moderator
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Posted: 17th Oct 2007 23:01
Those sound like good starting point rules. To me this can be a mix between WIP and Game Design--- i.e. post your work here for criticism.

Benjamin
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Posted: 17th Oct 2007 23:05
A lot of people want stickies now don't they.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
Deathead
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Posted: 17th Oct 2007 23:47
No...*Posts some random rules*lol

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120... when will you learn?
BiggAdd
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 00:26
Quote: "A lot of people want stickies now don't they.
"

Exactly what I was thinking.

Does this mean Jeku is our resident Mod over at the music boards?


Its finally here!
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 00:27 Edited at: 18th Oct 2007 00:36
5. And no porno music please.


Come see the WIP!
Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 00:42
*Bow chika bow wow*



~*~ Go Go Pwnzer Rangers ~*~
Xenocythe
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 00:45
Other than the rules we are making up as we go now, I don't think any stickies are necessary.


So far so good

Meh. Signatures. Lame :p
Grandma
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 01:17
Quote: "*Bow chika bow wow*"


Don't do that ever, ever again. Don't, or i'm gonna have to make a call. Yes, a CALL!

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

Making yesterdays games, today!
jasonhtml
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 02:58
those rules seem to cover most of it...

and to add a little to rule #1:
Quote: "1. Just because somebody posts a sound effect, or track here to listen to doesn't mean its open, royalty free to use. Ask before taking."


everyone should state its status at the top of their post.
Examples:
-Royalty Free(anyone can take it)
-Upon Request(you MUST ask before using it. also tell the person what you will use it for)
-Royalties Only(can be used only if the correct royalties are paid)
-Personal Property(this is for people who are really critical about their sounds/music(like me) and they don't want anyone using their creations in any way. if they put this up, don't ask them if you can use it, the answer will be NO.)

this would keep people from saying the classic, "Oh, i didn't know i couldn't use it." if we all state how we intent each piece to be used, it will keep a lot of problems from starting.

demons breath
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 04:38
good plan, especially the modified/extended rule 1

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 08:28
Lol never asked for a sticky... why is everyone talking about stickies?



~*~ Go Go Pwnzer Rangers ~*~
Zombie 20
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 11:28
All sound like good rules, now remember too..criticism is not making fun of people, so don't take it that way and don't do it guys. It takes a lot of guts to put up what we have made and we're all mature folk so I don't think this really needs to be explained anymore than the intial sentence.

Zomb

Van B
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 14:36
People posting media should say what they wish the license to be, be very clear if you don't want people to use your music, or in what manor you want it to be used.
Same applies to sound effects but really I think that people should only post sounds that they are giving away for free, otherwise it's just silly to expect people to listen to a sample that the can't use.

We're going down... in a spiral to the ground...
jasonhtml
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 17:07
Quote: "I think that people should only post sounds that they are giving away for free, otherwise it's just silly to expect people to listen to a sample that the can't use."


well, people also want crit. on their music for their game, but they don't want other people to take it!

demons breath
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 02:16
yes but there's a difference between music and sounds.

If the sounds sound like what they're intended to, then you can tell. For example, if your door or footstep sound effects sound more like a pig attempting to rap or a chicken clucking along to a jolly polka then you will most likely notice that something is amiss (unless you are deaf, in which case I would suggest getting someone else to handle the audio anyway).

Music is more subjective, a matter of taste, and a lot harder to judge impartially. Therefore, it makes sense that Van B has made this distinction.

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 21:49
Quote: "Quote: "I think that people should only post sounds that they are giving away for free, otherwise it's just silly to expect people to listen to a sample that the can't use.""


That sounds pretty retarded... Thats like saying "if someone posts a v0.1 of something they are working on in program announcements, i should be able to take it and say it's mine"

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's too big
demons breath
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 22:10
I agree with it though. At the end of the day, it's just Sound FX which would be affected, not music. It kind of goes without saying that you wouldn't use music without the author's permission.

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 22:30 Edited at: 19th Oct 2007 22:31
Heres how it is... If i spend my hard time capturing, and editing sound effects, just because i post it here for you to give a critique on does NOT MEAN that you can go forward, use it, sell a commercial game with it, and not owe me anything... That concept is just stupid... respect other peoples hard work. if they post it here they are not agreeing to give it out open, and royalty free. i dont care how much you want them to, its just not how it works.

demons breath
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 23:02
Fair enough I suppose.

I've never even tried to make a sound effect so I don't know how hard it is.

I suppose unless you have a huge array of semi-automatic weaponry, some gangsters, a few dozen modded cars, and some willing volunteers to get beaten to death for the sounds then creating SFX for something like GTA might be a little trickier than I first envisaged.

I thought at first that it would be a reasonably simple task of capturing sounds on a mike. But illegally importing trunkloads of monkeys and boats full of elephants just to make a jungle scene might push up production costs a bit, as well as attracting some unwelcome attention when a neighbour went missing and your new pet tiger seemed significantly fatter...

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 20th Oct 2007 00:53
Exactly my point. If i actually go to the trouble of capturing those sounds why should anybody be able to use it for free just because i post it for a critique... BUUUT just so u know, there are other ways to get the sounds... Some people can actually do pretty good impressions of monkeys, gun sounds CAN be made with cap guns and other things etc... There are actually several games that use a shotgun sound that is really THUNDER! just modified heavily...

jasonhtml
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Posted: 20th Oct 2007 01:47
i agree with nemesis. i dont see how posting my WIP music OR sounds gives anyone the right to take it.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 21st Oct 2007 17:05
That's why you should specify the terms of its usage. Perhaps it can only be used in freeware. Perhaps in a commercial title, with credit of course. Just remember, most things here are freeware, nothing commercial really gets made by members. Competitions are usually the highest form of game release around here.

Picking good sound effects is always a challenge for me, and I have a huge library of sounds to choose from. I think that if you make sound effects to sell you should post a couple of samples and perhaps a long low quality reel of all the sounds. I don't see the point of posting sound effects that you don't want anyone to use, because people will use them and problems will invariably arise. If people do use a sound effect posted here credit must be given to the creator. Personally I credit for everything. In Geisha House I've credited every contribution, down to plugins I've purchased. Otherwise I'd be attempting to pass off the hard work of talented programmers as my own, and that would be wrong in so many ways.

In short - clearly post the usage terms of each piece of media, and expect some usage of anything that you post.


Come see the WIP!
MikeS
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Posted: 21st Oct 2007 18:13
For now, I think less is more as far as rules go. I've always suggusted a sound/music board, and we finally have it. I am very thrilled!

As stated before, always list the terms of the released media, it's just good practice.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)
Lucifer
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Posted: 21st Oct 2007 20:05
i've got an idea, this board should be for discussing making music, letting people hear your songs, discussing game music, or any kind of that stuff. not discussing music you like or to tell people what you like or anything like that, that should go into the geek culture board..

anyone agree?

Lord Voldemort needs no signature!
demons breath
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Posted: 21st Oct 2007 20:11
I disagree, personally, as long as those sort of posts are kept to a minimum. Don't have a dozen of those posts on the first page, just have one for talking about bands you like and suchlike.

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
Van B
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 16:53
Give me a break Nemesis, comparing a sound effect to a WIP project is retarded.
Don't expect anyone to give critique on your sounds for nothing - most of us have better things to do with our time. If your making a sound effect pack to sell, then releasing a few free samples is the only way people will try them for you. If someone posted a few free samples then I would most likely try them and consider buying the pack, if someone posted sound effects with no rights to use them then I wouldn't even download them.

We're going down... in a spiral to the ground...
Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 24th Oct 2007 21:55
Meh your opinion... Im just saying just because someone POSTS something on this board doesnt mean everyone should be able to go "Click! OHHH I LIKE THIS! *sells game with it*" unless the creator says that they can... Its just common courtesy really.

Van B
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 12:29
Yes, and exactly what I said should be done .

Quote: "People posting media should say what they wish the license to be, be very clear if you don't want people to use your music, or in what manor you want it to be used.
Same applies to sound effects but really I think that people should only post sounds that they are giving away for free, otherwise it's just silly to expect people to listen to a sample that the can't use."


Perhaps it would be best to make like an MP3 montage of the sounds in a pack, that way the samples could be layered and very tricky to steal, but it's a neat way to preview sounds because your not having to download individual samples just to see how they sound. This was done with the SoundMatter packs.

From the POV of a developer who isn't too great with sound effects, well often sounds are simply taken from wherever they can be got from, most of us don't sell our games, so when it comes to getting good and free sound samples it's always a struggle - I usually end up in places like A1SoundEffects, where the quality is not exactly overwhelming. People selling games tend to have a more professional attitude to their media though, they're more likely to invest in sample CD's and stuff like that. But if you upload sound samples in .wav format, don't be surprised if they get used in a game with no credit given, no license, it's just something people should be aware of and protect themselves against where necessary.

We're going down... in a spiral to the ground...
Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 17:04
Generally speaking if i upload a sound and want a critique, if people like it and wanna use it in non commerical projects i dont care, it doesnt really affect me, im technically not losing money on it... I just have a problem if someone uses it in a commercial product and i dont even get so much as a "some sound effects by" credit or anything... Theft of my work pisses me off...

jasonhtml
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 17:41
Quote: "Theft of my work pisses me off..."


couldn't have said that better.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 18:29
Quote: " Don't post that which is not legally yours"

I partly agree. What if it's like, "how do they achieve this sound?"?

"It's like floating a boat on a liquid that I don't know, but I'm quite happy to drink it if I'm thirsty enough" - Me being a good programmer but sucking at computers
Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 25th Oct 2007 21:29
By that i was more saying "Dont post someone elses work and say its yours"

jasonhtml
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 19:18
so.... whats the conclusion about the rules?

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