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Geek Culture / DBP linux....yes I know 'not again'..

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Baggers
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 03:11 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2007 03:12
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Hey guys, first ff I'm not here to ask questions..and I'm also not here to say it works! because it doesn't, but it is slowly creeping in the right direction.

As many of you know Wine is a program for linux which pretends to be windows to fool programs into working...and its never worked with darkbasicpro.
Now I've been seeing how increasingly good it is at running directx programs (Max Payne runs beautifully!) and thought i'd see if I could coax DBP into doing something on wine.

Here are the results:

Ok so here you can see the finished installation and install of the patch


Followed by the obvious first program to test...a "Hello".
The compiler works beautifully, and feeds back to the IDE very well. As you can see I'm using codesurge as the standard editor is even more prone to falling over in Linux that in windows (hard to believe yes!)


Theres the output!


Now the real meat and potatoes...a directX object, yup, ive had multiple cones and cube spinning while sounds played and faded in and out...very neat


Help files


Just showing it really is gutsy gibbon



So no I'm not saying wooo lets linux it up...as currently its crap (any kind of textured object or manual handling of sync and it throws a wobbly). But its getting there and is something to keep an eye on.

Who knows aye?!

Sorry if this interest no-one but I love all the open source market and if DBP worked I may finally be able to drop the windows partition!

M.I.A is pending
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Keo C
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 03:26
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Long live the tux.
Interesting find at any rate.

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 04:44
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But for end users it makes no sense. It makes sense for us developers who might not want to have windows installed, but the people who play your games will be running them under windows. Otherwise they will have to install Wine and get it working, which is not feasible.

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Keo C
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 05:08
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Your post confuses me Jeku. I thought you'd program it in Linux, but label it as a Windows only program.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 06:20
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What if your end user's use linux and they want a game to play? Sure they will have to use Wine but aren't they used to that already?

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Keo C
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 06:26
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I still don't understand his post...

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
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TKF15H
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 07:04
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Quote: "Otherwise they will have to install Wine and get it working, which is not feasible."

DBP requires Direct X 9.0c to run in Windows, I don't see how requiring a recent WINE build in Linux is less feasible.

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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 07:39
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Quote: "DBP requires Direct X 9.0c to run in Windows, I don't see how requiring a recent WINE build in Linux is less feasible."


Of course it is. Installing anything in Linux can be tricky enough (unless you're computer savvy). Well, I guess you're right, as most Linux users are already computer savvy enough to use it in the first place.

Quote: "I still don't understand his post... "


Basically I said there's no point in running DBP in Linux unless you're a developer and you prefer the OS. But you can't export the game to Linux, so your "customers" still have to have Wine running. It's just an observation.

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Twisted Steel Software
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 08:47
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How... The.... did you get that working? I couldn't seem to get it to run no matter what... it always failed. What did you do to get Wine using DirectX 9.0c??

Thanks,
Jim

Intel Pentium 4 3.40 Ghz HT, 1.5 GB RAM, Nvidia Geforce 6800, 19" Dell CRT Monitor ... I need to upgrade ^-^
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Jess T
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 09:50
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Quote: "Installing anything in Linux can be tricky enough (unless you're computer savvy)."


Have you tried the newest package managers?
They're damn sweet - installing almost anything is easier than in Windows.
Provided you don't need any extra repositories, or have to compile from source, then I can almost guarantee your every-day user can install and run WINE under Gusty Gibbon

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Manic
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 11:47
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Quote: "Basically I said there's no point in running DBP in Linux..."


sure, but that's not to say it's a bad thing that you can (to a degree) I don't think this thread is calling on us all to burn our copies of Windows just yet.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 14:41
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Nice one! Looks pretty good, it would be certainly something to keep an eye on for improvements as we know some people are huge Linux fans. Of course the whole 'is there a point to running it on Linux?' I think, yes there is, I mean if it works well then it could be something to work with - say you prefer doing your music, texturing and modelling in Linux it kind of helps with the pipeline of a project or you generally prefer using Linux to Windows. Though at the moment it's pointless as Baggers said it doesn't work very well, but as they improve Wine, changes are it'll get better.

[Off topic]
Uh, I was going to email you Baggers, but may as well ask the question as I'm posting in this thread anyway. Have you seen James at all at Uni or in any of your lectures? He hasn't been back to the flat for over a week and didn't say anything about being away. Cheers.[/offtopic]

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Baggers
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 15:53
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Wow, interesting kick off we've had here:

Lets run down:

Jeku
"It makes sense for us developers who might not want to have windows installed"
And that's really the only reason I'm excited by it. Its not for everyone to drop windows, as 2000&XP is a good operating systems...but for those of us who use Linux as their primary system (myself for example) and would love to do away with their windows partition, having to care about viruses etc..It could be a great boon.

"Otherwise they will have to install Wine and get it working, which is not feasible."
Now I'm still a Linux newbie, much of what goes on behind the scenes baffles the crap out of me...but setting up wine (in ubuntu at least) is simpler than windows installations:

go to the equivalent of the start menu and click add/remove...the add/remove window will open...type Wine in the search box


Tick the box that says wine...then click apply.
Wine wil be downloaded, installed and setup on your computer.

This is why I really like ubuntu, its getting towards a level of userbility I could recommend to normal people...its still a couple of years off in my opinion but its still a impressive feat

Anyhoo enough fanboy-ism from me, windows still works and is supported by everything so is great.

"Sure, but that's not to say it's a bad thing that you can (to a degree) I don't think this thread is calling on us all to burn our copies of Windows just yet."
Exactly in the end of the day, having the choice is the best thing.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 15:57
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Interesting, how good is Wine's DirectX9 support now? I tried to run DBP on it a few months back and it wouldn't run programs at all because wine was saying it had an older version of directx than DBP needs to run.

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Baggers
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 16:06
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Kentaree: That wasn't actually wine's fault!..it was down to a bug in DBP.

I found out about it on this bug report:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=110973&b=15

It was a case of obtaining those files and putting them in the system32 directory...a rough work around yes but I was just interested in the potential of getting dbp to compile rather than user friendliness!
(oh search google for the files, they are freely downloadable-or nab em from your windows partition)

Again the direct x support is interesting, it seems to work well with many games (WOW fans are worshipping wine and cedega) but something in DBP's texturing it really doesn't like...I'll try and find a way to record the system log as its running so I can hunt down the cause of the crash...its like a detective game!

However even with those files installed most (anything with textures for example!) programs in DBP will still crash spectacularly!

But hey-ho its a start!

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Keo C
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 17:28
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Quote: "Basically I said there's no point in running DBP in Linux unless you're a developer and you prefer the OS. But you can't export the game to Linux, so your "customers" still have to have Wine running. It's just an observation."
Ohhhh Thanks for taking the time to explain that.

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
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David R
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 19:01
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Quote: "Otherwise they will have to install Wine and get it working, which is not feasible."


It is very feasible - just include it as part of the [game's] install, in the same way that any win32 game installs DX, or the PhysX driver. If win developers can automate the install of PhysX runtime drivers, I'm certain automating the install of wine is no big deal (+ if you distrib via a package manager, then you can just say it's a dependency)


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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hessiess
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 19:06
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an even easer way to install wine on ubuntu


learn blender, you will never regret it.

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Baggers
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 20:47
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hessiess: Very true!...though I'm a big fan of the GUI side of things as its the only way Ubuntu will every be a viable replacement to windows for the average user.

Are there any Ubuntu users with Nvidea cards out there...I'm running up against some issues that I think may be down to the ATI drivers being crap (though ATI have finally opened up and improved the linux drivers...but they are a few days from release) and was wondering if thee is anyone i can work with to test some thing out?
Please post here if you wish to help! cheers.

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John Y
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 21:43 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2007 21:43
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I had a play in a Virtual Machine, and can confirm Wine has come a long way since I've last used it.

If you want to use Synergy Editor, you will need to download, or copy across GDIPlus.dll. Other than that it works great.



Synergy Editor - Available in the WIP forum

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hessiess
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 22:21
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Quote: "hessiess: Very true!...though I'm a big fan of the GUI side of things as its the only way Ubuntu will every be a viable replacement to windows for the average user.

Are there any Ubuntu users with Nvidea cards out there...I'm running up against some issues that I think may be down to the ATI drivers being crap (though ATI have finally opened up and improved the linux drivers...but they are a few days from release) and was wondering if thee is anyone i can work with to test some thing out?
Please post here if you wish to help! cheers."


are you using nvidia or ATI? you say about nvidia, then go on about ati?

for nvidia 6/7 series


sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx


for 8 series

sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx-new

learn blender, you will never regret it.

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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 22:29
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Ok, I must install the new Ubuntu then. The screenies look nice

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Keo C
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2007 01:50
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Quote: "Ok, I must install the new Ubuntu then. The screenies look nice"
If your lazy (like me) Try Wubi.

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
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Jess T
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2007 02:20
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For a long time now, I've been looking at Running a Windows Partition in VMWare which means I keep my current partition, and just run VMWare when I need DBP or MS products, etc.

Problem is, it's a lengthy process, and learning Linux isn't something I have time for at Uni (however, I do know a decent amount, and have my drive partitioned with Feisty Fawn)...

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Baggers
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2007 02:42 Edited at: 23rd Oct 2007 10:15
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John Y: Sweet! will give that a try later.

hessiess: I'm using ATI, sorry for not being clear. Its just that some of the errors I'm getting when running DBP programs are errors that often are associated with ATI drivers so I was looking for Nvidia users to test certain features.

Jess T: Does your VMWare windows allow full access to your graphics cards' capabilities? as my virtualbox windows setup runs a virtual graphics card and thus is a bit slow.

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Jess T
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2007 02:55
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Baggers,
No idea, haven't set it up yet, but I would say that it's more than likely a virtual graphics card

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Baggers
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Posted: 31st Oct 2007 21:10 Edited at: 31st Oct 2007 21:11
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A little bit of a bump up here, just seemed silly to start a new thread on such an obscure subject. (Also if no-one is interested I'll stop posting until I have a major fix)

Ok to business...I have, finally, got textured objects loading!...but only to a point. DBO's work, but the convx file hates running under wine so loading in X files is a no-no currently, also seems to kick up issues loading .3ds files, but then again they don't really work in windows!
If anyone out there has any knowledge of convx.dll, namely, what its dependencies are please post.

I have also found out exactly why objects and files weren't loading, and that was quite simply that under wine, DBP programs look in the ubuntu home folder, not the directory they are run in...was a kick myself moment when i found that but rather that than anything more complicated..

anyhoo the result is you can load .dbo objects and load images to use as textures, see below.


So yeah that the only news so far, as fa as I can tell, the other native modules work fine but I'll test those soon (sound definitely did!)
Also I'm going to see if User created dll's work, I need newton physics and blue gui!

M.I.A is pending

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 02:00
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Quote: "What if your end user's use linux and they want a game to play? Sure they will have to use Wine but aren't they used to that already?"

Then they'll have to buy Windows now, won't they?


Nice though! Very interesting to see how the wine software is coming along.



Cheers,

-naota

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
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Baggers
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 02:25 Edited at: 1st Nov 2007 02:26
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And yet more progress...still very slow on my pc as the ATI drivers are poo but BlueGUI works just fine!

Man this stuff is clever!

M.I.A is pending

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Jess T
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 03:30
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Nice work, Baggers...

Maybe once you've got it all down, you could do a write-up about the process of getting it to kick over (eg; dependencies, etc), as I'm sure they'll feature it in the newspaper!

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Roxas
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 08:45
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Could you test some big projects?

I've always wanted to change back to linux but the wine support wasnt then that good so i couldnt

Tough im thinking of "dual-boot"

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Baggers
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 10:14
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Jess T: Sounds fine with me, I'll probably reinstall ubuntu and do everything from a fresh installation step by step and document as I go.
It would be nice to find another user who is using ubuntu (not just in virtual form) with a nvidia card so we can see how fast it will run.

Roxas: I heartily recommend the dual boot. I just find ubuntu a nicer place to work (hence the misssion to get DBP on there!) but I still have a stripped down XP running to code most things on and game. 'Tis a nice combo!

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hessiess
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 10:23
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only im using ubuntu 7.04, default kernal. only problem is i don't own dbp, because i couldn't get it working corectily on linux.

learn blender, you will never regret it.
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Baggers
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 11:03
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Damn, yeah it shouldnt matter whether you use feisty or gutsy (I wouldnt like to try on much earlier versions than that) as long as wine is up to date.
I wouldnt recommend buying dbp just yet though!

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Kentaree
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 11:06
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@Baggers: New ATI/AMD drivers are out which increase performance by orders of magnitude, if you read the Phoronix site there's an article on there where they tested the new ATI drivers on linux against the newest drivers on Vista, and to everyone's surprise the linux ones were faster.

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Jess T
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 13:33
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I'm running Ubuntu 7.10 (the latest LTS release), but I don't have any latest software.

Here at Uni, it costs per MB, and it's something ridiculous like 300MB to download all the updates. Gotta wait another month to go home and use the normal (slower) broadband.

Once I'm set up, and up-to-date, I'm going to try and switch to Linux full-time, and see what I can get done/if I can live without MS VS (needed for Uni work, but it does run under Wine)...

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Kentaree
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 14:53
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I use linux in work, but I also need Visual Studio, so I installed Vmware and installed WinXP + Visual Studio on it, and it works like a charm.

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Roxas
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 15:12
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Ok thanks baggers

I will install ubuntu then on dual boot!

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TKF15H
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 15:28
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Quote: "I use linux in work, but I also need Visual Studio, so I installed Vmware and installed WinXP + Visual Studio on it, and it works like a charm."


Isn't it really slow? Or did they implement 3D acceleration in VMWare already?

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 15:42
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VMWare is pretty damn rocking imho, not slow at all. I dont think it supports 3d yet but as a server or a general desktop environment its perfect.

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
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Kentaree
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 16:38
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What CR said, it's quite fast (I've allocated it about 750megs RAM, so that helps) and you need to install VMWare Tools for it work at its best with proper mouse pointer speeds, but I don't use it for any kind of 3D

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Baggers
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 17:27 Edited at: 1st Nov 2007 19:42
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Jess T: "Here at Uni, it costs per MB"
Ouch man that harsh, our uni halls connection is free and its a 2meg line.
Vis-Studio runs on wine...wow...will have to try that, I've just been using mono but I don't think .net v2 is fully implemented yet.

Kentaree: Hmm seen mixed reviews on that mate, on the phorox forums a good few people have noted it as slower as the open source driver...but that was on gutsy and could be related to issues with that, I've just dropped back to feisty for a bit to see if DBPro will work on there. I'll give the drivers a go in a minute, I'm just updating everything.

hessiess: Well if you have wine I'm more than happy to send over a DBpro program for you to demo. I'll zip up the extra dll's you'll need with the test program, There's 3 major dll's that need to be added before it will work.


****
EDIT
****
Right I've started putting the tutorial together for getting this running, there is one issue I've run into though, and this is activating the product. Up 'til now I have just been copying my compiler certificates folder over and this did the job. But this is rather ham-handed and I'd like to find a better method. Anyone got any legal ideas for this?

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John Y
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 20:43
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It must be the old version of Visual Studio, the last time I checked it wouldn't even install the .Net versions.

Quote: "Right I've started putting the tutorial together for getting this running, there is one issue I've run into though, and this is activating the product. Up 'til now I have just been copying my compiler certificates folder over and this did the job. But this is rather ham-handed and I'd like to find a better method. Anyone got any legal ideas for this?"


That should be ok, as long is it's the users own compiler folder, and you're not providing it.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 1st Nov 2007 23:34
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This is interesting. I have an dual boot ubuntu + windows xp, which is very nice. And it would be awsome if I could run DBPro in ubuntu with wine.

And beyond that:
Ive read that Half Life 2 works with wine. Never tested it, though.

When your love leaves you, it hurt. But when she wants you back, when she reallize leaving you was an mistake, who am I not to take her back, if I still love her?
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Jess T
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 00:40
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http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=4647
Says that VS works fine

Baggers, yeah, they're tight here at Uni, and it took about 300 people copmlaining for them to drop the prices last year (was ridiculously high), but I still feel ripped off.

Oh well.

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Keo C
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 02:01
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How much does it cost per MB?


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hessiess
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 03:08
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Quote: "hessiess: Well if you have wine I'm more than happy to send over a DBpro program for you to demo. I'll zip up the extra dll's you'll need with the test program, There's 3 major dll's that need to be added before it will work."


post it, with instructions, and il test it

learn blender, you will never regret it.
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Keo C
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 03:11
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I can test also if you want. I have too much free time.


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andrey d
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 06:53
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I have a hunch that you'd be getting a lot more luck if you were to use a nvidia card. Also, I've heard some stuff that Wine has the ability to use libraries that you give it, for example, feeding it some DX dlls? The source wasn't clear on the basics of it so perhaps some of you guys might know or perhaps even have done that before.
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Jess T
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 07:37 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2007 07:39
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Quote: "How much does it cost per MB?"


2.2c (AU) - before this year it was 11c.

I know, I know, it's not much, but look at it this way; that's AU$22.53 a Gig (and AU$112.64 previously)!

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