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Geek Culture / game developers playing games

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aluseus GOD
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 19:38
Do the makers of a game beat a game faster then the average consumer with an official guide?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 19:42
Game makers are just regular people

I would say they are slower because they like to take in the beauty of what they're playing, but maybe that's just me


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 19:51
Well... I released a demo awhile back for one of my old games and well... No one could beat it for a good few tries. I could beat it in under 5 minutes So yeah, the person making the game knows all the little secrets and shortcuts, so he could potentially beat the game faster.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 19:58 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2007 19:59
Bungie played Marathon on the hardest difficulty setting with just fists to ensure it wasn't too hard for the players

Most developers will have played their own game to the death before it's released so they will be amazingly good at it (the main reason why so many games are too hard on newbies). But there will always be those players (if the game is good enough) that will become even better.

How good are the makers of Guitar Hero at playing the game? They are known to hold presentations while playing the game on expert. That is: talking about something and playing a song without looking at the notes

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gbark
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 20:17
Well I know when I'm making a game in DBPro, it's incredibly easy, but when other people play it they start to die on the first level.

I'd say in most cases, the developers are about the best of the best for that particular game.
Raven
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2007 21:19
Quote: "Do the makers of a game beat a game faster then the average consumer with an official guide?"


Depends on the games adverage audience really.
Bungie and Production Studio 5 (Resident Evil guys) are well known for being about to beat their own games with their hands tied behind their backs (that was an exaggeration but they are too sodding good at them)

I've not yet beaten a single Resident Evil on anything but Easy mode (well except Resi Evil 4, which frankly was basically an FPS) and Oni, out of the 30 or so people I know who've played it I'm the only one to have beaten that.. which was bloody tough on Easy. The dream level in particular is extremely difficult.

That said they are usually the exception to the rule though.
I mean most development teams I've been on, we have cheats for ammo and health or such so we can play through a section from a technical point of view. If everything is good then often the environment engineers (and/or production staff) will then go through without the cheats to make sure it feels right. Tweak aspects, make sure health and ammo are in the right places, checkpoints or savepoints don't feel to far away, etc..

Unless you end up obsessively playing the games, you generally don't get to good at them. Last project I worked on, no one in the office had time to really sit down and play it through without doing it specifically to make sure either the engine was doing what it was suppose to, if aspects were balanced, if there was enough time to complete objectives, how well the ai reacted, etc..

As a result until release most of us never really played it for enjoyment sake. There was another project I worked on where frankly I hated the new control system they had added as well as the stupid targetting system. Basically felt totally unplayable, still never been able to complete it to date simply because of that. In-fact from memory, only the fans have been able to beat it without cheats.

Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 21:09
I worked on Madden and I still don't know all the rules of American football--- does that answer your question?

Osiris
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 21:18
I dont think anyone does...

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2007 21:59
yeah, not even the refs

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 03:44
Oh! I memorized the rules of American football, except just not yet.


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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 03:50
Well, I know the rules. Americans that don't are dorks.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 04:33
Quote: "Well, I know the rules. Americans that don't are dorks."


Or have better things to do with their time.


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Osiris
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 05:40
Lol the developers must pay their games, to debug it.

Also, watching football is boring, I would rather play it.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 06:14 Edited at: 4th Nov 2007 06:16
Quote: "Also, watching football is boring, I would rather play it."


American Football is the worst sport to watch... aside from Soccer (European Football) Soccer is just plain dullsville. At least in football the object is to smash into people with virtually no rules.

Playing American Football is fun though. Never really tried Soccer, but it doesn't look very fun.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 06:29
American football is strange, you guys like your breaks don't you
I tried to watch the Miami Dolphins v New York Giants that was at Wembly but it just kept stopping and starting and nothing really happened. It went back to the studio and I thought "is that half time? what's going on?" and so on and so forth until I resoundingly proved that the sport is rubbish

but really, all sport is a good thing isn't it. Chess aint a sport, chess is a strategical game, and I hate the way people immediately associate the word "game" with childish things that don't matter, everything is a game, this is the longest sentence every, I don't know how to use commas properly! Ahhhh

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Jess T
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 08:32
Quote: "Lol the developers must pay their games, to debug it."


Not necessarily.
They have dedicated game testers for playing through it to make sure it is actually playable, and they do kinds of stress tests.

The developers have set boundaries and test-beds that the code must adhere to. They test for these, and if that section works, they move on. It usually only involves testing a tiny part of the overall game at a time.
Hence, they rarely actually play through it (unless, of course, it's a small indie game like pacman, etc).

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Thraxas
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 10:35
Quote: "American Football is the worst sport to watch... aside from Soccer (European Football) Soccer is just plain dullsville."


Words fail me... How anyone could think football (soccer) is dull is beyond me...

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gamebird
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 15:52
I'm american and watch (american) football, but even I don't like how it pauses so much. That's what tivo is for.
bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 15:56
There's always the condensed games


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Deathead
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 16:36
Quote: "Words fail me... How anyone could think football (soccer) is dull is beyond me... "

I know. American Football is good. But I'm more NHL. American football is far beyond strange. They don't use their feet! They use their hands! So how is it football I don't know. I'm guessing americans don't think of the names meanings.

Digital Awakening
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 20:23
Deathead beat me to it. In American football you kick the ball only a few times per match but in real football (soccer) you are not even allowed to touch the ball with the hands unless your a goal keeper or you do a throw-in.

I only watch 2 sports: Curling and K-1

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Jonny_S
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 22:17
Never watched american football, I watch alot of boxing/mma though and I like watching match of the day (Football/Soccer program) but only really watch the England games.

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 4th Nov 2007 22:48
Quote: "Words fail me... How anyone could think football (soccer) is dull is beyond me...
"

Because all you do is watch people kick a ball up and down a field, and a couple times a game manage to kick it into a net . I don't really like watching any sports, but, other than golf, soccer would probably have to be the most boring .


Aaron Miller
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Posted: 5th Nov 2007 01:03
All sports are boring to watch. Rather their fun or not is debatable... But in order to watch them, I swear you'd have to have the imagination of a 3 year old! Or just enjoy being with friends (If you watch it with friends and such).

In fact, that's the ONLY time I watch sports is when free food/drinks are involved, or friends are.


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demons breath
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Posted: 5th Nov 2007 01:39
Yeah I do watch England lose in whatever world cups we're in, just because it's an excuse to get a group of mates together and have a few drinks.

Van B
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Posted: 5th Nov 2007 13:35
I think for some, game creation is really an advanced sandbox game, where you have absolute control over everything.

That's the way I see it at least, I mean even as a kid I'd rather mess around making games than play them - packages like SEUCK and 3D Construction Kit made it easy, I guess DBPro fills that gap once you know it well enough. The games I prefer these days are sandbox games, like Oblivion and GTA - most other games tend to bore me before very long. I'd spend hours designing levels for Farcry on the XBox, then only play them once or twice - for me the fun is in pushing the limited supply of objects to make something unusual. I stopped buying Tony Hawks games when they stopped including a level editor - I used to have so much fun with that, making crazy jumps, getting a good sequence of ramps, that sort of stuff is infinitely more appealing to me than being able to record your own video. Maybe I'm just a control freak, but there's something satisfying about knowing a level inside out because you made it, especially when you can play other people on your created level.

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Raven
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Posted: 5th Nov 2007 14:19
I enjoy watching both EFL and NFL, as well as NHL.
Although on the whole they're just not that exciting really to watch most of the time, every so often there are really good games that rekindle that whole love for watching the sport; but most of the time they're quite boring and the breaks in NFL are beyond irritating when it's a boring game.

Find F1, MotoGP and AirRace really fun to watch though no matter what.

Still all sports are more enjoyable to play than watch.
Baseball and Cricket are certainly those games that only when playing are really enjoyable even slightly.

I probably know the rules to NFL far better than I do to EFL (especially given they keep changing them, especially the off-side rule).. and Cricket I honestly don't have clue the rules too. Too many retarded names for things puts me off wanting to.

Quote: "In fact, that's the ONLY time I watch sports is when free food/drinks are involved, or friends are."


Definately true.. watching something on your own is just boring and a little sad. A bit like drinking on your own, then you're just getting drunk to well drink. In-fact I prefer to do quite a few things as a group activity even if others aren't doing anything but keeping conversation.

Programming, and Artwork are about the only things I can just sit there on my own doing. Everything else, generally prefer doing with others about to talk to. That said I'm quite a social person on the whole, which is quite odd mind cause online RPGs I rarely talk to people in-game, usually just someone sitting next to me lol

Quote: "I think for some, game creation is really an advanced sandbox game, where you have absolute control over everything.

That's the way I see it at least, I mean even as a kid I'd rather mess around making games than play them - packages like SEUCK and 3D Construction Kit made it easy, I guess DBPro fills that gap once you know it well enough. The games I prefer these days are sandbox games, like Oblivion and GTA - most other games tend to bore me before very long. I'd spend hours designing levels for Farcry on the XBox, then only play them once or twice - for me the fun is in pushing the limited supply of objects to make something unusual. I stopped buying Tony Hawks games when they stopped including a level editor - I used to have so much fun with that, making crazy jumps, getting a good sequence of ramps, that sort of stuff is infinitely more appealing to me than being able to record your own video. Maybe I'm just a control freak, but there's something satisfying about knowing a level inside out because you made it, especially when you can play other people on your created level."


For me, game development is just as enjoyable as games because it never seems to get boring. There is always something else to do, especially if you're developing with others about.. then again that's probably another point about testing what you've worked on. Usually in a development team you've got others around you to use as guinnie pigs, while you tweak.. and visa-versa. Sometimes they'll pip in while your testing out a section and such making suggestions.

Can't really imagine what the game development process would be like for solo developers, certainly doubt it is any where near as enjoyable.

greenlig
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Posted: 6th Nov 2007 00:15
I must admit I don't play games that much. At least I don't finish them hahaha. I enjoy games that amuse me for a while, and are easy to get into, ala x-moto or something. That said, games that I deem important enough I do finish.

Don't know how far the Poms are into their cricket, but here in Aus, if its a sport, you watch it. Cricket is a great game. Haha, I live about 2km from the place where Ricky Ponting grew up, and I made out with his cousin one night!! Beat that!! The test against Sri Lanka starts Thursday which is great. I find football(soccer) to be very entertaining. Even just watching the players for their skill is great, and when there is vested interest, ie Chelsea playing, its great to watch!! Playing it is better I'll admit, but I could see it being boring if you weren't very good at it.

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