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Geek Culture / Light a candle in memory...

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Mr Z
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 13:16 Edited at: 8th Nov 2007 14:52
It happend.

Something terrible, something aufull. Sometimes, when people are pushed over the edge, they try to drag everyone with them.

This happend in a neighbor to me. A neighboring country, that is. In Finnland. An student in an school (don't know his or her age) took weapons to school and shot 9 people to death, and hurt meny others.

In memory of the people lost, and of their familys, light an candle tonight at nine a clock.

I know I will.

Take care,
Mr Z.


EDIT:

Nine a clock Swedish time, which is about 1+ Greenwitch time.

When your love leaves you, it hurt. But when she wants you back, when she reallize leaving you was an mistake, who am I not to take her back, if I still love her?
Digital Awakening
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 14:27
That is always sad when it happens, and it happens far too often these days.



On a side note I would like to notify you that "an" should only be used before words starting with a vowel: "an apple", "an orange". If the word starts on a consonant "a" should be used instead: "a car", "a dog".

Also, if you wish to specify a clock you may also wish to specify a time zone so that candles are lit at the same time in all countries

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Roxas
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 14:41
Yes.. And because of that we needed to be silent in school like every hour... So annyoining..

All i can say School = Evil

Anyways there was similar indicent in Ylöjärvi few years ago too

Nah.. All i can say he was stupid.. And his videos are in net still..

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Mr Z
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 14:54
Didnt know that an simular thing have happend before. But still, this is tragic. Humans. We can be so wonderful to each other at the same time as we can be so cruel. But we must never loose the hope, in that we can do better.

When your love leaves you, it hurt. But when she wants you back, when she reallize leaving you was an mistake, who am I not to take her back, if I still love her?
Accoun
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 15:15
Quote: "We can be so wonderful to each other"

I think it cold be considered an "against the human nature"...
And good, that THIS TIME it wasn't like "he killed because he was playing computer games"...

Make games, not war.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 15:48
It's a sad think when these things happen, it usually sickens me - there are some pretty screwed up people in the world.

Any is there any more details of the incident? Such as why they did it etc.

Though look on the bright side, it's Finland, therefore we won't get this stupid controversy with blaming people who didn't commit the crime and those responsible I hope will be held to blame. I can have more faith in the justice systems in that part of Europe more so than the UK and USA.

I hope the person responsible does pay for their crime and I give my sympathies for the families and those effected by this.

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Zombie 20
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 15:53
I shall light a candel for those lost to this world, I'm sorry for the loss MR. Z. Sometimes, bad things happen but it will always be the memory and actions taken to remembering their spirits that will overshadow the ill fated event.

Zombie

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Mr Z
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 17:06
I did not loose anyone, but I have an huge sympathy for the people that did loose someone. Im like that. My ability for empathy is great, and I dont want to have it any other way. Its an vital part of and, and one of the things that separate me from the person who did this.

And he did suffer for his crime. By killing himself.

Quote: "I think it cold be considered an "against the human nature".."


We humans are capable of wonderful things and awful things. This was an awful thing. And its the awful things that are noticed. Mostly. But if you take an look, there is light .

Quote: "And good, that THIS TIME it wasn't like "he killed because he was playing computer games"..."


I hate when people say computer games or music is behind things like this thing.

Quote: "Any is there any more details of the incident? Such as why they did it etc."


Its in swedish, but here is an article about it:
http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.129991

And apperantly he upploaded videos on youtube where he told the world why he did it. It was an crusade agains humanity. He hated humanity...

When your love leaves you, it hurt. But when she wants you back, when she reallize leaving you was an mistake, who am I not to take her back, if I still love her?
Roxas
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 17:18 Edited at: 9th Nov 2007 14:08
He was too genious.. If anyone reads his toughts about humans you will see how genious he actually was.. Thought i know.. Too genious is almost same thing as sick at this kind of people (schizophrenic)..

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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 17:22
Quote: "And he did suffer for his crime. By killing himself."


No, he didn't suffer in the end. He took the coward's way out so he doesn't have to own up to what he did.

Mr Z
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 18:43
Well, my point was that he died.

When your love leaves you, it hurt. But when she wants you back, when she reallize leaving you was an mistake, who am I not to take her back, if I still love her?
Roxas
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 18:49
Quote: "Well, my point was that he died."

And thats good..
We dont need trash like that in our country..

I can clearly see that european union starts to make same laws as amierican has.. this country starts turning just like america..

I wonder why i haven heard lot of murders from asia.. Is that really that inconnect country? Seriously.. I rearely heard anything about that country!

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MonoCoder
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 18:53 Edited at: 8th Nov 2007 19:01
He didn't suffer, he died quickly (I imagine so, since it was a gun), and on his terms. Basically, he got away with it.

Bustard. His whole "humanity is overrated" philosophy is crepe too (well, for the most).

EDIT: Asia's a country now?
EDITZ: Ok, he didn't die quickly. Bah.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 18:54 Edited at: 8th Nov 2007 18:57
For newsfacts, the murderer died in the hospital from his self-inflicted wounds.

For someone capable of doing this there is no fitting punishment. May he be happier in death than in life - it must take some terrible reason or madness to commit such an act.

My thoughts, respect and prayers to those who died, those who were close to them. That they may find peace. My thoughts also to those who survived such a traumatizing experience. The horror of your friends or peers being murdered in cold blood in a classroom next to you propably marks one for life.

These things show us how fragile life is, and how we should treasure it. All we work, learn and live for can be destroyed in the pull of a trigger or the blink of an eye.


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Roxas
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 19:20
Quote: "Asia's a country now?"


Sorry.. My english isnt so good.. Is it state or how you say it in english? I dont remember anymore..

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MonoCoder
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 19:32 Edited at: 8th Nov 2007 19:33
It's incontinent.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 19:35
No, that's something you are.

The word is continent.

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MonoCoder
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 19:39
Touché.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 20:00
Hem. Candle. Not Candel.
With that past, it sickens me how anyone can be that cruel to their fellows.

Nya!
Well, yes but - wait, what?
Grandma
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 20:43 Edited at: 8th Nov 2007 21:01
I once had the urge to pop a bullet trough some people, but i didn't because even if some people deserve it, they still have a family, friends and a life to look forward to. This idiot probably never thought that mattered.

My condolences to every family and student affected by this, including the shooter for the reason stated below.

From the swedish article:

I did not tell anyone about my plans and i kept them entirely in my head the whole time. Don't blame the movies i watch, the music i hear, the games i play or the books i read. No, they didn't have anything to do with this. This is my war: a one-man war against humanity, the government and the weakminded people in this world! No mercy for the scum of the earth.

Hmm what bothers me is what he must have gone trough to get thoughts like that, he could have been a decent person once... I don't believe people get borned with such an attitude.

Quote: "Asia's a country now?"


That reminded me of this youtube video i once saw were some poeople were asked to name a few countries in Europe, and they had "answers" such as: "the one with the kangaroos" and "Asia".

Edit: typo

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Zombie 20
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 21:47
Quote: "I don't believe people get borned with such an attitude."


Very true, his words reminded me of mine on a rant about humanity..frighteningly close to what I can say. While I am saddened as well to think what made him think this way I only think that way becasue I'm tired and aggravated from working and then the news comes on and I get pissed off, but I would never kill, ever.

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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 21:51
Borned?! Borned?!! BORN!

Nya!
Well, yes but - wait, what?
Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 21:52
Quote: "Borned?! Borned?!! BORN!"

Why do you keep spamming useless comments on random threads? Don't you have anything better to do with your time?

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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 21:58
^ Actually, no. I have been a little tired recently, I apolagise for my recent outbreak.

Nya!
Well, yes but - wait, what?
Mr Z
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 22:29
Somehow I pitty the man. Not that what he did was right or justifiable in any way. I just pitty him for his mental state. Whenever someone starts to think like that, without hope or love, its an tragedy. ANd in this case it had terrible consequenses. Somehow I can understand him. But I would never become like that. I would rather die.

But we must remember one thing. Our world is for the living. Honer the dead, and live your life for the future.

All this, about that 18 year old mass murderer, is just so terribly tragic. What I feel for the famelies that lost someone. People lika this arent born to it. They are made it.

When your love leaves you, it hurt. But when she wants you back, when she reallize leaving you was an mistake, who am I not to take her back, if I still love her?
Jeku
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 22:32
Quote: "apolagise"


Apolagise?! Apolagise?!! APOLOGIZE!

Grandma
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 22:36
Quote: "Borned?! Borned?!! BORN!"


Each to their own, i prefer borned.

Are you going to criticise me for making up words? Then go criticise Shakespeare or something.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 8th Nov 2007 22:59
Why do these crazy people always shoot up schools?
Where they bullied or something? Losers!
He said something like he was going to execute everyone who he thought were weak and a disgrace to humanity... then shot himself
Isn't he still alive?

Quote: "Somehow I pitty the man. Not that what he did was right or justifiable in any way. I just pitty him for his mental state. Whenever someone starts to think like that, without hope or love, its a tragedy."

True, I think we should give lethal injections to people who get like that. It's too dangerous for them to be alive, and costs too much to contain them in a mental hospital.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 00:20
Come on, we can do like the guy was evil, but most likely, he was just psychologically unstable. I daresay his thoughts and feelings must've been a living hell for the guy.

I feel sorry for him. I really do.

(My original comment is up somewhat in the thread, for those who think I'm not sorry for the victims).


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Kieran
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 08:33
Where?! Where?!! WERE!

Visit The Aex.Uni Forums

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 14:58
Quote: "
And he did suffer for his crime. By killing himself."


Didn't suffer enough in my opinion.

But yes humans are both capable of good and evil and it's really about the choices we make - people have this apocalyptic view of humanity - that human nature is a selfish one, which appears from what the media tends to focus on, disasters tend to make the front page, not positive acts, because newspapers sell better when 'shock horror, something bad has happened' - though I'm not saying good stuff doesn't appear, just not as frequently and creates this image of evilness in human nature.

Human nature is just well, whatever it is for you - is your desire to do good, bad or be neutral.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 15:13
I don't believe in really intentional evil from anything with a conscience. There must always be some sort of notion of 'doing something that's good'...


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Mr Z
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 16:37
Some people know whats right and wrong, but they cant feel it, if you get what I mean.

And about the human nature, see the movies "Blood Diamond" and "Shoting dogs". Both movies show the dark sidea of the human nature, but also that there exist good people, avan in the dark. The priest in "Shoting dogs" is my hero.

Humans are in nature not evil or good, they are just humans. Its our choises and perspectives that decides whats good and evil.

When your love leaves you, it hurt. But when she wants you back, when she reallize leaving you was an mistake, who am I not to take her back, if I still love her?
Roxas
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 16:41 Edited at: 9th Nov 2007 16:41
Quote: "Its our choises and perspectives that decides whats good and evil."


Yes.. School = Evil

Also there isnt anything in law that says i need to be pupil who gets 10+ from every test

I have kinda long list of everything i have done in my school

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Kentaree
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 16:52
I just think it's ironic that he killed those people, then couldn't manage to kill himself instantly by shooting himself through the head...

Mr Z
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 17:30
Maybe he wanted to die with pain...

Or something happend so it just did go wrong for him when he tryed...

Or he couldnt do it...

When your love leaves you, it hurt. But when she wants you back, when she reallize leaving you was an mistake, who am I not to take her back, if I still love her?
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 20:06
Quote: "Apolagise?! Apolagise?!! APOLOGIZE!"

Hahaha. That made me laugh.
Yes I have learnt my lesson.
Quote: "I just think it's ironic that he killed those people, then couldn't manage to kill himself instantly by shooting himself through the head..."

Indeed.

Nya!
Well, yes but - wait, what?
Roxas
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Posted: 9th Nov 2007 22:17
http://retecool.com/uploads/mirrordir/Sturmgeist89.htm

O_O That man is really sick.. Tought i cant disagree either what he wrote sometimes.. But still sick!

He even uploaded his plans.. I damn hate that sick dude.. Now finland will turn out new USA.. There even born up new group who are following this guy footsteps.. Also there was news that all this user nicknames are used every day even the guy is death! WTF?

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MonoCoder
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 00:26
Quote: "No mercy for the scum of the earth! HUMANITY IS OVERRATED! It's time to put NATURAL SELECTION & SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST back on tracks!"


Apparently, the scum of the earth is best found studying in school, and natural selection actually involves randomly picking them off with something totally natural like a gun. Oh, and survival of the fittest involves failing at suicide.

Good grief, how did he manage to breathe?

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Jeff032
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 01:13 Edited at: 10th Nov 2007 01:15
Quote: "you'll never read this...but I'd pat you on the back if I could friend"


(from comments in above link)

Somebody needs to shoot this guy...

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 01:40
Quote: "http://retecool.com/uploads/mirrordir/Sturmgeist89.htm

O_O That man is really sick.. Tought i cant disagree either what he wrote sometimes.. But still sick!"


It's a little ironic - 'I hate man for his evils, I hate the society because it is screwed up', yet he sinks to that level and makes it worse rather than better. If he really disliked the way things are, surely he'd fight FOR it, rather than being a bigot and achieving nothing but a bunch of dead bodies and broken people...Not only is a maniac, but he wasn't the smartest one of the bunch - though claiming a philosophical mind...

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Libervurto
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 02:49
@Tha_Rami
I agree with you that this guy was probably a tortured soul that was abandoned by society, but some people are too screwed up to be helped and if they are a danger to others they should be killed IMHO, you just can't have people that dangerous in the world, it is safer to do away with them.
I just thought, are we allowed to talk about this or is it against the AUP?
This is a sad story in many ways, that this guy was screwed up for so long and apparently no-one knew it, and that he needlessly killed himself and others (don't know how many).
This is one of those bad things that you really can't draw any positives from.
You could be killed tomorrow by some idiot that doesn't know what he's doing, you can't stop it happening. A few people are insane and lots of people are stupid, just hope you're lucky enough to stay out of their way.
I know this is a long rant but i just realised I said "he", has anyone ever heard of a girl going insane and killing loads of people?

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 03:16
Quote: "I agree with you that this guy was probably a tortured soul that was abandoned by society, but some people are too screwed up to be helped and if they are a danger to others they should be killed IMHO, you just can't have people that dangerous in the world, it is safer to do away with them."


That sort of thinking if horrible. You can't have someone executed because of what they might do. I have nothing against the death penalty for someone who has murdered another human being in cold blood.

Now, just imagine that once a government is legally able to do something like killing off a citizen of their country because of what they MIGHT do. How many more evils could abound from that sort of control? We're talking something along the lines of Nazi Germany... Even if this guy was a known mental patient with these symptoms and hatred for the world he has no reason to be killed. He hasn't committed a crime and still has a chance to turn around. I do think he should have been (if the opportunity ever existed) counseled and every effort should have been put forth to help the man. Unfortunately it's too late for that.

What cowards these people are. They can't even stand up to the proper punishment they deserve. What is the point? So many people disgust me. How could they kill innocent lives off and just snuff their own out when they are done. Did these people ever have a heart or any sort of emotions or feelings?

This world is just going to hell and we aren't doing much to stop it

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Libervurto
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 03:33
OK maybe I didn't word that very well, what I meant was that we have thousands of rapists and (in this country) murderers who are criminally insane locked up in mental hospitals, those are the people I would like to see killed, I'm not talking about gunning down everyone who's ever had a mental problem.
I still don't understand why the British government is so lenient on rapists, I heard on the news this guy raped a 10 year old girl and got 2 years imprisonment for it! two years! He could rape the same girl 5 times before she was classed as an adult!
They should at least be castrated, what is the motive for rape? What is there to gain? And why does the government tolerate it.

I'm gonna stop this rant because I'm getting myself worked up and going off the subject of this thread.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 04:00 Edited at: 10th Nov 2007 04:02
A friend of mine thinks like you, he reasons that a bullet costs a few cents while keeping someone locked up costs $90 per week (Dutch statistics).

As you might've guessed: I disagree with you. I do agree that some cases are judged really, really soft, and I agree that criminal law (at least in the Netherlands) should be far stricter. Cases like 2 years for rape are absurd. I'd be interested to know if he tries something like that again, though.

The part I disagree with is that we are entitled to decide who lives and dies. Nor should the law, honestly. This kind of reasoning is exactly the same as that gunner had before he commited his terrible act - he felt he was to decide who dies and lives based on personal assumptions of good and evil.

People who are insane, even criminally, should be handled with care and respect for the person as a psychological unstable human being - even if only for their family. That they made victims is terrible, but it doesn't dehumanize them in any way, nor will it help the victims if the criminal is killed.

This guy was most likely a tortured soul. He seems very intellectual if you ask me, from both the pictures and writings. It's just intellect used the wrong way. Jeez. I can't imagine how it must be to... ah crap. Never mind. This is going to turn into one of my philosofy moods.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 04:10
Well, Rami, it really depends on what you believe. Not to bring religions into this discussion, but my personal belief is that God laid out capital punishment for us in the Bible. Here is one of the passages. In a code snippet as to not offend anyone (if you don't like it, don't click it.



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tha_rami
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 04:15
Final point in reply to Agent Dink, to avoid religious discussion. We can continue this on Cogito, Seppuku Arts solution for anti-AUP topics.




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Mr Z
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 10:43 Edited at: 10th Nov 2007 10:45
Regarding executions, Im totally against it no matter what someone has done. You cannot compromise with the worth of an human life, nor can you say it would bring justice. True justince would be to force the man to resurect his victims and se that they will live, but since we cant do that... if someone breaks my watch, I do not have the right to break theirs. But the person who broke my watch owe me an new one.

The only cases where you can say killing is allowed is under extremly, extreme circumstances, and then to directly potect the lives of yourself or someone else. And even then, its wrong (sometimes we stand infront of the choise to do something wrong, and something even more wrong). Killing is always wrong.

You cannot say that you should execute people because it costs to much, an single human life, no matter who, is worth more the planethen all money on t.

This is my view. And just to make it clear, Im an atheist. To prevent this thread from going out of hand, I wont respond to any responce to this post.



Now to something else. Here is an link to an article about two psycologists analys of our guy (note that it to is in swedish):
http://www.vasabladet.fi/story.aspx?storyID=11545

It states that he tried to live up to macho-ideals about how an man should be, to claim the power that should be his but wasnt (from his perspective). Combine this with an increadible need for attention, that wasnt stimulated, some kind of depresion and an luck of hope, and what do you get? This.

When your love leaves you, it hurt. But when she wants you back, when she reallize leaving you was an mistake, who am I not to take her back, if I still love her?
GatorHex
19
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Joined: 5th Apr 2005
Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 11th Nov 2007 14:58
In the UK we used to execute people but found we couldn't bring them back after they were found innocent/setup so stopped doing it!

Guns shouldn't be sold to joe public.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Libervurto
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 11th Nov 2007 15:17
I don't really see capital punishment as a punishment, it's more like just getting rid of bad people, people that might be able to be helped by why bother.
My belief is that if a person rapes or murders someone their life becomes worthless. That is very similar to the Mafia haha
I disagree with the human rights "everyone has a right to live", no they don't! Living is a privilege and you have to work damn hard to stay alive, no one has the right to sit on their arse and do nothing and be kept alive.

aah crap I've got to go back to work!

"You must be someone's friend to make comments about them." - MySpace lied.

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