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Geek Culture / Stuck in a chinese proverb - Anyone gone to school wondering what they're really doing there?

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 04:33 Edited at: 5th Dec 2007 04:36
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The young man approaches the old man sitting by the town gates. "What kind of people are in this town?" asks the young man. "Well, what kind of people were in your previous town?" the old man asks in return. The young man replies "My previous town was full of a-holes". To which the old man says "Well then, you'll find nothing but a-holes here too"

Forgot the source for that.

Wanted to get a little insight from the geek community. The first semester of college is coming to a close so I figured it's a decent milestone to comment on the school so far. I'm in a 1 year Art & Design Foundation program. Unless something amazing happens in the second semester, this program will continue to be known by it's students as "Certificate in doodling". Going to school for Art is of course different then doing a regular degree for something where you don't have to draw, so I don't expect all responses to be consistent with each other.

I just feel like what we are doing is okay at best, but only if it was free. I would be satisfied with the program, but I didn't find it worth the tuition and costs. Reflecting back on the story above, maybe it's just a personal problem with myself. I get huge assignments in "design theory" class. Here is a giant canvas...shade it all in. We spend literally 4-6 hours on these projects, mindlessly doing work that is neither complex or difficult, but merely time consuming. And when I bring it in the next week, I don't really feel like I've learned anything, I'm simply glad it's over. The professors are not really all that. With the exception of one, most just show up, talk a bit, give a project, and leave.

I'm only doing all of this because the program is a prerequisite for the 3 year graphic design program, but I don't even wanna do that anymore. I don't really know where my graphic work stands on an industry scale. When I show it to people, many say they like and believe I should be already working as a graphic designer. Others say they like it, but tell me to go spend 3 years and mountains of cash on school anyway, just to be on the safe side.

I am trying to currently work on the underrated skill of reading between the lines. People are telling me that yes officially I should have a degree to work...and then kind of hinting what "employers" really want to see. To be frank, I've seen a lot of crap designers employed with good salaries. After everything I've seen, the only thing I know is that actual skill plays a minor part in getting a job as a designer.

I'm just lost in general. Has anyone gone through a similar feeling?

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Osiris
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 04:49
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Well to tell you the truth. My professor who worked all around the world for drawing concepts and storyboarding in movies and for video games has seen many people walk into an interview with nothing but a sketchbook and landed a 80k a year job. He said all the people would do was take a blank sketchbook with them on the way and make some gesture drawings of people doing whatever. So really you don't need a degree, just talent.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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tha_rami
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 04:57
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What I've found is that if you're good, you should just apply to every open job listing you can find. Build your CV as a portfolio CV, instead of the usual chronological CV. Get your stuff out there, but not on the internet only. Sending a letter with some samples of work to any open position usually triggers more of a reaction.

Overal, some nice college papers saying you can do basic graphical stuff with the autograph of some uninterested guy in suit (who happens to be the director of a school, college or university) will help you getting jobs, but just sending around stuff can never hurt.

It's not as if it's easy without that degree. You'll have a harder time proving yourself, so that degree itself cannot hurt. Skills and work experience are the things you need most, though. The last one being the hardest.


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Jeku
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 05:51
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I've seen people get hired at work who don't have "art" degrees. One of my friends is an Interface Designer-- a damn fine one at that-- and he has a degree in software engineering. Other people have art diplomas. One girl came here a few years after high school. Another one of my Interface Designer friends came to his interview with a book full of graffiti he did on tunnels, and that landed him the job.

I wouldn't turn your back to schooling, but in the end I agree that what matters is your talent. Some people can never learn the art side of things, so if you're good at it don't let it go to waste. You can keep looking for jobs when you're at school, and then if you get a job offer you can always go back to school in the future.

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Preston C
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 07:08 Edited at: 5th Dec 2007 07:09
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With my first semester coming to a close in a week, with the finals afterwards, I can somewhat agree with you. Many of my classes are general, over-complicated drivel where all I really do is sit around and waste time doing repetitive work.

And this will repeat until my fourth semester.

I'm not going for a degree in art, rather one in computer science, but the first few years for my schedule seem to be more of a "Ok, we'll just jam a bit more knowledge into you that you may or may not use for the rest of your life" in preparation for the last few years which make you apply your previous knowledge more in preparation for actually using it outside of school. In a sense, they're wasting my money. Especially with the general ed. classes they have me take.

I like school, though, even with the extra fluff they force you to take. But, if school isn't for you, school isn't for you. Several friends of mine, pursuing a variety of degrees, have already dropped out of college due to it "not being for them".

I can't say if a degree is necessarily something I'd look for in an artist, but rather the art itself. But I don't know how the rest of the world is. If you think it isn't for you, drop out, save your money, and go try for that job. But if a degree is what is required to get a majority of those jobs, then it might be best to stick it out for the next few years and hope you can learn a few tricks out of it.



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Jeku
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 08:56 Edited at: 5th Dec 2007 08:58
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Remember that a degree is often a good way for an employer to weed through the stack of resumes. He may not even take a look at the portfolios, but use the piece of paper as a way of making a shortlist.

Also, regardless of whether you think you're doing stupid thinks that are "useless", having a piece of paper also shows the employer that you are able to stick with something until completion. In my opinion my University experience was little more than proving to everyone that I don't quit what I start. The fact that most places don't even ask for transcripts is proof of that

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 09:07 Edited at: 5th Dec 2007 09:13
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That's kinda why I drew the line between art jobs and knowledge-based jobs (e.g programming) Obviously an employer is gonna want a degree in computer science. Unless the applicant is a self-made bedroom programmer who's sweeting scholarships left and right thanks to an amazing demo he recently coded, no one will look at him.

Anyone here remember Jonny Ree? I've known him since the earlier forum days, and he was the type of guy that was oozing skill and talent more than guys fresh out of art school. He was snapping up freelance jobs and worked on several actual titles. He dropped his folio off at a college, then I guess decided to screw it and simply work. (Got a good job and re-located to the US)

I just don't see how an employer could sort out a visual portfolio next to peices of paper that say "degree" on them. Good work samples simply jump out at you...anyone would notice it first. Going back to the "reading along the lines" bit I mentioned earlier...yes, many creative directors will sigh and say they want a degree, but what many of them are really trying to say (and I spoken to several) is that they don't want a bunch of kids to think "Oh I don't need school" and start throwing in half-completed portfolios.

This is why I'm actually willing to do an internship first. The cost of breaking into the biz without contacts is working for free like a slave for a short time, but I guess everyone has to do it.

I'm trying to be humble and positive, but it's kinda hard when the professor you're paying huge money for to teach you graphic design is kind of a sht designer.

In the end, this just sounds like a whole "me against the world" thing, where the only thing left to do is just suck it up and work my ass off on getting a job. If that fails, I'd have no choice but to shut up and conform to institutionalized education.

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Chris K
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 10:38
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Email loads of game studios, or design studios or whatever, and briefly describe your situation,

"Hi, I want to be a graphic designer and I am currently at college, but I feel like I am not learning much, or not learning fast enough. I was wondering if you offer any internships, paid or unpaid, that I could interview for as I think I would learn infinitely more in the industry than in the same amount of time at school."

Or something like that, and attach some sample work.
At the very least they will probably give you some feedback on your portfolio.

You can even send the email from a fresh hotmail account, just in case it all goes horribly wrong and they come after you with sticks.

Can't hurt to ask!

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 14:30 Edited at: 5th Dec 2007 14:30
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Interesting when my mother did art and illustration she had more feedback and more things to do, but part of the thing with uni is that they expect you to have some skill understanding hence people like my friend who Does computer architecture is expected to be good at programming (which is isn't)

But at the moment, I think we're in a similar boat, I am doing Creative Writing, we have 4 double modules (modules that last two semesters) they are 'Writer's Reading', 'Representation', 'Storytelling' and 'Creative Practice'. Creative practice is obviously where we build our portfolio, but as far as the workshops go we are just left to discuss it amongst ourselves which is a little annoying because you don't know if you're doing well in eyes of a professional as it's really class mates looking at your work and at the moment the only work set is creative work. I was actually happy today to hear my lecturer comment on a little bit of my work today saying 'she liked it, it was funny, but she would have wanted to hear more of Paris Hilton getting ripped'.

It was actually something we were discussing yesterday in our Storytelling lecture.

Though I don't suppose it's as bad because we have been set 'background work' and that it is to work towards our final coursework and presentation, meaning researching lecture topics, reading books and analysing them and starting the projects to hand in at the end. Of course our Tuesday lectures go into depth about theory etc. which is a good thing. Mondays are good for analysis, but I too don't really feel I've done much in comparison to say my friend who's doing English (who gets assignments throughout) but looking at the workload he does, the time he spends doing work compared to me I actually realised in that respect we're not that different.

As for difficulty, I've not found it hard, I just have to take in facts about the theory and history etc. and do my work and improve upon it and learn through workshopping.



But if it's not that kind of 'I don't feel like I'm doing much' and that you really aren't doing much, then have a word with your tutors about the course etc. if you're satisfied look at the solutions you've been given above.

[edit]
Double Negative

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GatorHex
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 17:11
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School is a temporary prision to stop kids roaming the streets and robbing houses between 9am to 5pm while the adults are out at work.



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Agent Dink
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 17:43
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Quote: "School is a temporary prision to stop kids roaming the streets and robbing houses between 9am to 5pm while the adults are out at work.
"


Homeschooling FTW!

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El Goorf
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 18:12
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when it comes down to a contest between talents, when two people have equally impressive portfolios, a college/university qualification may be a deciding factor.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 18:20
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Quote: "School is a temporary prision to stop kids roaming the streets and robbing houses between 9am to 5pm while the adults are out at work."


You're thinking of high school.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 19:05
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Quote: "when it comes down to a contest between talents, when two people have equally impressive portfolios, a college/university qualification may be a deciding factor."


That's just what people say because people like repeating stuff.

Or something like that...

Anyways, I think you should go out and apply for jobs when your semester is over, you may not even need to look back at college


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Manic
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 19:13
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Hi Aiki,

I did Art Foundation and then went on to do Graphic Art & Design at Leeds Met, so I guess I'm looking back the other way from you.

Before you ask, I don't have a job in graphics at the moment, i don't have a job at all in fact, due to various reasons, but I'm using this time to work on my portfolio.


Your art foundation doesn't sound too great at the moment if I'm honest with you, although the first term does seem a bit slow, you've got to stick it out though.

It's interesting you've picked that proverb, I couldn't sum up quite so curtly as that (although I doubt whether the original used the word a-Hole).

Basically, you've just come out of secondary school, where you were spoon fed information (don't take it as an insult, we all were). The teaching's intense in secondary school and really full on. In art school it's not.
You complain about disinterested tutors, well it's your job to interest them, not the other way round! Art school is all about self development, working out what you want to do and why.

Sure shading a big canvas doesn't sound like too much fun... but look at this way round... when are you EVER, EVER gonna have so much time to just experiment and do whatever?

Basically, what I'm trying to say, is you get out what you put in, if you stop thinking about how pointless you think what you're doing is, and start thinking about how much fun it is to be left alone to do what you're doing, you'll probably start enjoying it more!

well, that's my thoughts anyway

Manic

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Jeku
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 21:41
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Quote: "That's just what people say because people like repeating stuff."


Uh, and it's true

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Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 21:55
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Your thoughts on school are no different than what the rest of DeVry students have already come to realize. I had a friend who was going to CCAD (really good but expensive art school), but dropped out his senior year to attend somewhere else because the career he wanted had a flooded market and he didn't think he'd get what he wanted with his degree. I believe he went into business. Just about every devry student (including myself) feel we've wasted $60k on an education that taught us very very little.


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