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Geek Culture / Steam.

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Venge
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 07:08
Okay, maybe I've been living under a rock for the last few years, but I'd never played the Half-life series or anything from Valve for that matter, and I was intrigued when I heard about the Orange Box. 5 games in one seemed like such a good deal, so I asked for it for Christmas. When I opened it this morning, I couldn't wait to try it out...However, my computer isn't connected to the Internet due to no phone jacks in my room and that I don't play many online games anyway. The only computer with a connection is my parents', which is several years old and slower than a turtle smoking pot.

So, I was disappointed to find that I'd need an Internet connection before I could even install the games, presumably to download updates or whatnot. So I popped it into my parents' computer and Steam installed just fine, and came up with a window to download the five games on Orange Box. Wait a minute, though. If I've still got to download the games, what the hell is the purpose of having 2 DVDs in the orange box? What happened to buying a game on a disc, popping it in, and playing it??? I started downloading Portal at about 1 pm today, (I've got 1 Mb DSL) and by 9 pm it was finally done. Now I could play the game on my parents' computer, except that it crashed on the first loading screen. So I searched for the folders containing Portal, to transfer them to my computer. But what do you know, they couldn't be found on the computer, by the built-in search engine anyway...

Hmmmm. So I clicked the button in Steam to "Backup the game file" and another window popped up asking where to backup, etc. Then I initialized that and it started "compressing and saving" the files...Time remaining: 39 minutes.

So about 45 minutes later, I check it again. It's made some progress, about halfway across the bar, but time remaining is now 43 minutes. What the hell.

So here I am. With a game hidden somewhere on a computer that can't play it, and its too late at night to wait for it to finish backing up so I can transfer to my computer. And even then it might not work, since Steam apparently needs Internet access every time you try to play a game.

Does anyone else have The Orange Box and has had these problems? I think it's the most ridiculous system for gaming ever thought up...I mean who would think of selling a disc without a playable game on it, and requiring all users to connect to the Internet to play even single-player games?!

Well, I'm going to sleep now. Maybe I'll try again tomorrow...

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Dave J
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 09:44
I've got the Orange Box (which was a great purchase mind you, Portal is fantastic, of course ) but I've never run into any issues that others have talked about. I don't know if the Australian version is different but mine installed all the games from the 2 DVD's without issue. I still need an internet connection and everything's done through Steam because it's put in place more as a security system. The idea is that each serial is locked to a Steam account so you can't burn or pass your game around to your mates, meaning they can't all play it from just one copy.

Anyway, I didn't have any forced downloads, only an optional update which I was able to decline. Having said that, I have heard others claim they've had to download the entire game despite owning a physical DVD (or 2, in this case) but it didn't happen to me.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Lover of games
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 10:24
and besides, once you install the games, you can run them in off line mode. had to do that when i lost my internet connection for a few days.

"Originally I was going to have a BS on it but you know how that would be. I can't walk around with the letters BS on me." More or less a qoute by Syndrome from Jack, Jack, attack
Alsan
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Location: Germany - Nähe Kassel
Posted: 26th Dec 2007 12:05
When I bought Half Life 2 on release, we still had 56k and it was a absolute pain in the ass to install it.

The note that you need an internet connection on the package was so small, you couldn't read it with a microscope.

It took hours to install, hours to update and one day to figure out how the offline mode works (it wasn't like clicking on one button and it worked, for me anyway).

Luckily I have DSL now, otherwise I wouldn't buy any Steam products.

@ Orange Box: I'd love to play Episode 2 and Portal, but the Orange Box really sucks. I bought Half Life 2 and Episode 1, why do I have to pay again for them? The Black Box would be so cool, only god knows why they cancelled it.

Thraxas
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 12:32
Quote: "I bought Half Life 2 and Episode 1, why do I have to pay again for them? "


You can gift them to your friends so it's not like no one can play them... Plus you can buy Portal and HL2 Ep 2 on their own off steam... it's not like you HAVE to buy the orange box to play them...

I didn't have any trouble installing the games either... they installed off the disc...

[center]
CattleRustler
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 12:46 Edited at: 26th Dec 2007 12:46
Steam is a great system imho. Usually people who have trouble have crappy computers, or crappy internet connections (non-broadband), or just don't get the concept of anyi-piracy - or some combination thereof.

Venge, get a long phone wire so your modem can connect your "best" machine to the internet. Install the bulk of the games from the dvd's (which it sounds like you may not have the first time), then run the games from your computer. That transfer idea isnt going to work iirc.

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
Venge
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 14:01
Even if I do connect my computer to download get these games, will I be able to play the games afterward, without a connection? It seems like whenever I try to click on something a box comes up trying to initialize Steam...

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Venge
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 14:53
...........
Well now I feel stupid...
Since Steam popped up when I put in the disc, I figured that was the only way to get the games...Just now I went to my computer and clicked the cd drive to start it up again and "reinstalled" the games, which led me to a window that had never come up before and I could just install them from the disc. 20 minutes later, they're installed. Guess I have to connect my other computer now so I can get "updates" and put steam in offline mode.

Modelled and rendered in Blender. Free software ftw.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 16:05
exactamundo there chief

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General Reed
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 16:28
Steam is AWESOME!

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

Alsan
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 17:26
Quote: "or just don't get the concept of anyi-piracy"


If it would work! The pirates don't have any problems with crappy limitations or internet activation, because even those Steam games are cracked after 1 week (maximum). Another example is Bioshock.. honest consumers can only install it like 5 times (don't know it exactly) and have to activate it online, pirates just unzip and play.

This whole copy protection trend in recent years doesn't bother pirates at all, it just makes it more attractive to do something illegal than buying it and having that much trouble with silly activations.

At least for 56k Users. I admit that I really love to see my Steam account and all the games I could play, and with DSL the activation shouldn't be much of a problem.

@ Thraxas: Yeah, great, I can give them away for free. Even if selling wouldn't be forbidden, who would even consider buying those two games if he could have the whole thing in the Orange Box?

Yes, I could buy them separate and download them. But I'm a package fetishist, and with my DSL Light (384k) connection it would take years to download them.

KeithC
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 17:51
That's my point with the whole "Steam" issue (and others like it); why are they making it harder for the honest folk to play their games? When pirates can download and play the game in less time than it takes us to even install it, with Steam. It's just ridiculous. Those of us on dial-up (because there is no other option in our area) cannot possibly download games of that size (or even the updates).

All Steam is doing is increasing the numbers of pirates out there, nothing more. To be fair, I should call up Valve support and ask them how I should go about playing the game I bought. After that's done, we'll see how I feel about it.

-Keith

Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 18:18 Edited at: 26th Dec 2007 18:26
Quote: "All Steam is doing is increasing the numbers of pirates out there, nothing more."

You should contact Steam with these 'facts', I'm sure they'd be interested to know that what they are doing is making piracy worse.

I can only think of two types of people that would make such statements: a) the minority of people with problems with the system, and b) people that are annoyed because they can't easily pirate the games.

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KeithC
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 18:43
So you're suggesting I pirate software Ben? From what I've read when HL2 first came out, it wasn't a "minority" that had problems with the system.

David R
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 18:52 Edited at: 27th Dec 2007 00:29
Quote: "When pirates can download and play the game in less time than it takes us to even install it, with Steam"

Quote: "If it would work! The pirates don't have any problems with crappy limitations or internet activation, because even those Steam games are cracked after 1 week"


Most of the 'cracks' rely on fake/weirdly set-up steam accounts to function; which can be shut down once they're identified. Besides that though, cracks only ever usually work for a short while.

I once had a tinker with Steam and how it 'protected' apps, and I must say they're pretty good at keeping up with cracks. I'm not promoting piracy etc. but a common 'hack' which appeared after the demo of Rag Doll Kung Fu came out was fixed within a week

[removed by moderator]
Whether you advocate piracy or not, please don't post instructions about it on these forums -thanks CR


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Alsan
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 19:05
Well, I don't know a single game which hasn't been cracked atfer a week or two (except for online games of course). As it's not very wise to talk about that stuff here, and I'm sure it's also forbidden in the AUP, I'll just say, that there are loads of cracks for Half Life 2 and other steam products that don't rely on faked steam accounts and work completely offline, without steam. Forever.

Look at Oblivion, it isn't copy protected at all and became a bestseller.. It's just the quality that makes the sales and not a fancy copy protection.

Chenak
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 23:54
I had insane problems with bioshock, for 2 weeks it would ask for online verification and all it would do is tell me it could not connect to a server in order to get a verification thing. In the end I lost all interest... Its not even an online game wth. I did manage to get it to work in the end at the cost of £7.50 to call tech support and get them to email me a code. I was not amused.

Steam works fine for me though at the moment anyway...
Jeku
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 00:06
Quote: "From what I've read when HL2 first came out, it wasn't a "minority" that had problems with the system."


That's because 20 million people were downloading it from Steam's servers on day one. Valve offered anyone who pre-ordered to cache the files on their hard drive well in advance of release. I did that, and was able to play HL2 on day one.

RalphY
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 00:14
I didn't even pre-cache it and I was able to play HL2 on day of release. Just installed it from the DVD and then let steam connect to the internet to update it. Took about an hour in total iirc.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 07:45
Quote: "So you're suggesting I pirate software Ben?"

I don't remember saying that - guilty conscience?

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Osiris
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 08:25
Idk what you guys did, but when I installed it all I had to do was put in the CD and let it install a little, connect to steam to "Authenticate" it, and installed the rest from the CD. So well, mine was a quick install. Try disconnecting and putting in the CD again.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
Thraxas
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 09:27
I have never had any trouble with Steam which is probably why I like it so much... I can understand though that if it isn't working for you it's probably a real pain...

[center]
KeithC
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 14:39
Quote: "I don't remember saying that - guilty conscience?"

You seem to have an issue with me personally, let's keep it to e-mails and off the forums.


I did try installing it again; after steam updated itself (around an hour on dial-up), it actually started installing the game from the disk. Then I had to update the game itself, which only took 10 minutes (recent copy must have most of the updates). Finally it allowed me to start the game, but during the initial cutscene (when you phase into the train car) my computer gave me the "blue screen of death". I tried starting it up again, and it happened at the exact same instance. Tried it a third time, with the same result. Each time I had to do a hard reboot. Finally I did a disk defrag (been awhile), fired up the internet (still think that's stupid to have to be connected to play), and tried it again. This time it actually worked.

I played quite awhile last night, though the wife wasn't too happy that I got it working.

Anyways, I still think it's a big hassle to play a game that you buy as a hard copy; but, for now, I'm just happy to get to play the game.

Now I've got to figure out why my Christmas present (Company of Heroes) won't let me play either. Tried calling THQ yesterday, but they were closed.

-Keith

Insert Name Here
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 14:58
Quote: "You seem to have an issue with me personally, let's keep it to e-mails and off the forums.

"

I think he was joking.


Sudoku arts, the rabi and Nancy DrewG
Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 15:16 Edited at: 27th Dec 2007 15:20
Quote: "You seem to have an issue with me personally, let's keep it to e-mails and off the forums."

Chill, I have no problem with you. All I'm saying is that I'm not accusing you of anything.

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Venge
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 21:52
Portal was fun. Too bad it only took 2 hours to beat

Anyway, I figured out the problem and it's solved. So you can lock this and throw it in a dungeon with cake.

......

The cake is a lie...

Modelled and rendered in Blender. Free software ftw.
David R
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 22:39
Quote: "[removed by moderator]
Whether you advocate piracy or not, please don't post instructions about it on these forums -thanks CR
"


Fairly pointless seeing as though I was trying to cite an example of a hack Steam had totally quashed, but yeah, whatever


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Venge
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 22:50 Edited at: 27th Dec 2007 22:51

Now Half Life isn't working. Whenever I try to launch the game, it loads for a bit, then comes up with this:



It only does that for Half Life 2 and Ep1 though....Ep2, Portal, and Team fortress 2 work fine.

Modelled and rendered in Blender. Free software ftw.

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Osiris
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 23:11
Woah, cool error font.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
sp3ng
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Posted: 28th Dec 2007 00:02
one other thing with the downloading,
i dont know if it has been mentioned, but what seems to happen is when you download say halflife 2, you then have a large amount of the core files you need for episode 1 and 2 and a smaller amount of the core files for other source games. therefore when you download these games you dont have to download as much


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Venge
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Posted: 28th Dec 2007 02:11
@Osiris: Yea, that's my window font. I got bored one day and explored the "Appearance" tab of the window when you right click on the desktop and click Properties...

Well, Episode 2 is kinda weird, since I've never played any of the Half life games. I started in a train wreck for some reason, so I just picked up the gravity gun and started throwing stuff around...Hopefully I can get the other ones working.

Modelled and rendered in Blender. Free software ftw.
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 01:31
I just got it today and am installing steam as we speak... And i have dial-up.... I had better not have to download the games...

The Fluffum War - MULTIPLAYER DEMO RELEASED!!!!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=115938&b=8&p=0
Osiris
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 02:23
You don't. Do what I did, just let it connect once. Pull your internet, and put in the disk.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
David R
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 18:46
If it's Orange Box, most of the games don't even have to update, even if you're connected to the net (I found only TF2 had to download anything afterwards)


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Venge
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Posted: 31st Dec 2007 15:10
Well, that was fun.
Can't wait for Episode Three

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 31st Dec 2007 17:00
I'm not a fan of either of the episodes so far. I don't know what it is but something about the episodes "feels" different than hl2 the full game. Can't explain it really. anyone else get that same unexplainable vibe from the eps vs hl2 itself?

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 31st Dec 2007 18:08
Slightly, but I think Episode 1 wasn't near as good as HL2 itself while Episode 2 completely blew both of them out of the water.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 31st Dec 2007 23:12
Ill agree ep2 was way better than ep1, but special effects aside, I think HL2 the full game is way better than ep2, but they arent comparable really. EP2 does show promise that HL3 will be awesome when it comes out

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 1st Jan 2008 00:01
What's wrong with steam?

I worked it out and it's cheaper to just buy ogrange box if you want portal, ep2, and tf2, so I did. I got it on the 2 dvds, and it's currently installing from them. The only problem I have right now is that the last few times I tried to play hl2, I had to delete all the save files before it would work, and f I tried to run it again with new saves even, it wouldn't work. I'm hoping that's gone now, as I've backed up my saves and I've almost beaten it...

I'm really not too crazy about te whole episode thing. Yeah, it's a great idea, but it really felt like ep1 was supposed to be part of a larger game when I played it. I would have much prefered waiting for a hl3, unless maybe the episodes are an interval between hl2 and 3 (probably not, but it is strange that they're not hl 3 episodes...)


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Venge
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Posted: 1st Jan 2008 00:26
HL2>ep2>ep1.

Episode 1 was way too short imo. It also kept freezing, at least 4 times I had to restart the game due to some Directx error, but I could get past the part where it froze on the second try.

Modelled and rendered in Blender. Free software ftw.
Osiris
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Posted: 1st Jan 2008 00:50
I would be alright with the episode things, if they came out more frequently, that or they were longer. However I really liked episode two.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2008 01:55 Edited at: 2nd Jan 2008 02:33
do you still have to be on the internet to play if you do install from the disk?
EDIT: nevermind, that was answered.

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