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Geek Culture / XNA Studio

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Osiris
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Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: Robbinsdale, MN
Posted: 31st Dec 2007 04:15
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I think it would be a much better idea if Microsoft wasn't trying to hoard even more money and demanding we pay a subscription to use it. I mean really, could they not just release it like they did the freaking express edition of C#...you know for free?

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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Cash Curtis II
19
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Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Posted: 31st Dec 2007 04:42
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It isn't even expensive. Nothing entitles us to free products from a company no matter the size.


Come see the WIP!
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Osiris
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Location: Robbinsdale, MN
Posted: 31st Dec 2007 05:25
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100$ subscription fee for a college student is expensive.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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Matt Rock
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Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 31st Dec 2007 06:10
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Since when is XNA subscription-based? This must be new, it was free before, unless you wanted the XB360 license, which cost money.

Seriously, a one-time fee is fine. Subscription based? That's nothing short of theft. Who in their right mind would pay a subscription fee to use a game platform? I mean really, all XNA is is C# inside an environment with some ooh's and ah's, I genuinely fail to recognize why anyone would pay a subscription to use it. And the target audience of XNA are indie developers, not Rockstar or EA or Blizzard, am I wrong? Again, I didn't know they were subscription based (and I need to see a link to this), but if they are, it's rediculous.

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Izzy545
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Posted: 31st Dec 2007 06:18
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I donno what he's talking about XNA is completely free unless you want to develop for the 360.

Check out my books
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Jeku
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21
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 31st Dec 2007 06:24 Edited at: 31st Dec 2007 06:25
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Yah, do some research, man

It costs $99/year if you want to develop for the 360. That is *perfectly* reasonable considering it's difficult and not even legal to develop for most every other home console system.

XNA is totally free to use for Windows. It's more than just a C# wrapper. If you write your game with XNA for Windows, it's incredibly easy to convert it to a 360 project. That can be valuable for many indie developers.

Anyone who thinks $99 a year is expensive for indie developers needs to get a job It's a lot cheaper than any other dev kit for a console. The PSP dev kit is about $15k, for example. Go ahead and buy that if you want.

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Osiris
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Location: Robbinsdale, MN
Posted: 31st Dec 2007 07:51
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Shouldn't there at least be some type of student type thing, like through MSDN? I can get, office 2007, XP, Vista, and a bunch of other software for free from them because I'm a student, but not this?

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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Jeku
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Posted: 31st Dec 2007 09:18
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Quote: "Shouldn't there at least be some type of student type thing, like through MSDN? I can get, office 2007, XP, Vista, and a bunch of other software for free from them because I'm a student, but not this?"


Wow, imagine complaining about getting Visual Studio .NET for free, along with free access to the largest and best game API the world has ever known (DirectX), with an easy to use wrapper for Windows and 360.

For one thing, Visual Studio is industry standard, and MS is giving you that for free. You said yourself that you get Office, Vista, etc. for free. And now you're complaining about a $100/yr. charge to do 360 development?

Argh. I remember paying $400 just for Visual C++

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Chris K
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Joined: 7th Oct 2003
Location: Lake Hylia
Posted: 31st Dec 2007 13:57
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Quote: "Seriously, a one-time fee is fine. Subscription based? That's nothing short of theft."


Pathetic. Who recons this view might be reversed if Sony released a subscription based development platform?

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Chenak
22
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Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 31st Dec 2007 14:12 Edited at: 31st Dec 2007 14:22
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Quote: "
Seriously, a one-time fee is fine. Subscription based? That's nothing short of theft."


Why don't you get the sony or nintendo indi dev kits then. Oh wait... they don't provide dev kits for indis... oh well. Guess you'll have to pay a few £10k for them then which is much cheaper than the Microsoft XNA subscription . Thats not theft is it?

I've played around with XNA as our uni has them in the labs. Its quite a neat thing though I still have to learn c# before I start messing around with it too much

I would be happy if sony and nintendo followed suit and provided cheap dev kits for their consoles... I think sony will never do that, maybe nintendo but they can be funny about that sort of thing too. Still I live in hope. It would be fantastic to make some psp indi games.

Quote: "..I can get, office 2007, XP, Vista.."

Urm... I'm part of the academic alliance for microsoft and they don't give away Office... only MS Access. How did you get Office for free?
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CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
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Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 31st Dec 2007 14:19
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or get Visual Studio 2008 Express (any flavor) + DGDK for free
(MS and TGC teamed up)

C++ version already released, C# & VB.NET w/ DGDK.NET releasing January 2008

My DBP plugins page is now hosted [href]here[/href]
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Cash Curtis II
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Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Posted: 31st Dec 2007 16:28 Edited at: 31st Dec 2007 16:29
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Quote: "Shouldn't there at least be some type of student type thing, like through MSDN?"

Develop Windows games, then. Why is developing on the Xbox so important to you? If you have no money it's not likely you'll be making anything commercially viable.

We should be thanking Microsoft, not complaining. No other console company makes their console accessible to indie developers at all.


Come see the WIP!
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Matt Rock
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Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 1st Jan 2008 03:00
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You guys ALL misunderstood what I was saying. If this cost money to develop for Windows, I'd have a problem with it... that would be greedy, end of story. The 360 dev kit subsription is fine by me, I thought that was fairly clear from the ENTIRE thread .

Quote: "Pathetic. Who recons this view might be reversed if Sony released a subscription based development platform?"

Sony did have a cheap dev kit (for the PS1 anyway), Net Yaroze. And on numerous occasions I've said I'm ticked off about Sony making the PS3's dev kit overpriced and difficult to work with... you of all people should know that, I'm sure I've said this, directed at you, a few times in the past . Of the few Sony fanboys on TGC, I'm easily one of the most critical of Sony, but you only read what you want to read

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Jeku
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 1st Jan 2008 10:15
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Matt, stop being a baby Most of us were replying to Osiris, not you. I just think it's funny how you think $99 a year is expensive for indie developers. That is *cheap*.

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dark coder
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Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: Japan
Posted: 1st Jan 2008 10:46
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Quote: "I just think it's funny how you think $99 a year is expensive for indie developers. That is *cheap*."


Says the person who bought a $2k purse.

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Jeku
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Posted: 1st Jan 2008 11:16
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I'm talking about cheap in the realm of video game programming. Hell, DBP cost me $90 Visual C++ used to cost hundreds for a copy that allowed you to sell an app commercially.

If you want to develop for the 360, $99 would be your cheapest cost. Most middleware engines cost tens of thousands of dollars. The game engine we were using at the last indie company I worked at cost $50k. The plant and tree engine itself cost $15k.

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hyrichter
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Joined: 15th Feb 2004
Location: Arizona
Posted: 1st Jan 2008 17:50
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Jeku is right that $99 a year is CHEAP. I mean, I have to pay $95 a MONTH just for the software for my cabinet business (and it's more than worth it), and this is considered one of the lower priced programs out there. I've got to get in the business of making software for cabinet makers -- some of those programs are up in the area of $20,000, with several hundreds to thousands each year in upgrade fees.

I like to get a good deal on things too, but if paying means I get something that'll work and help me do my work faster, I'll buy it.

CodeSurge
Version 1.0 finally released! Code your DBP projects in style. (And save the kittens!)
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jasonhtml
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Location: OC, California, USA
Posted: 1st Jan 2008 17:55
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ya, if $100 per year was a lot, then no one would play world of warcraft

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RUCCUS
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Location: Canada
Posted: 1st Jan 2008 20:32
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You can make more than $100 in a week alone working at McDonalds... whats the problem here?

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David R
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Location: 3.14
Posted: 3rd Jan 2008 16:12 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2008 16:13
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Quote: "I just think it's funny how you think $99 a year is expensive for indie developers. That is *cheap*."


I agree, it is cheap, especially for what you get. My only question is, besides paying for the privilege to dev. for the 360, does this subscription cost actually do anything useful? (i.e is the cost justifiable beyond just filling M$'s wallet)

Quote: "The plant and tree engine itself cost $15k."


Was it SpeedTree?


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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Jeku
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 3rd Jan 2008 18:13
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Quote: "My only question is, besides paying for the privilege to dev. for the 360, does this subscription cost actually do anything useful? (i.e is the cost justifiable beyond just filling M$'s wallet)"


Well, the only useful thing it does is allow your 360 to run the XNA Launcher program. It also opens up a few more things on the XNA website, but you can read most of the docs without subscribing.

Quote: "Was it SpeedTree?"


Yep

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bitJericho
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Location: United States
Posted: 4th Jan 2008 17:44
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Quote: "have to pay $95 a MONTH just for the software for my cabinet businesshave to pay $95 a MONTH just for the software for my cabinet business"


Phew, that's when I make my own software

Then again, if you're talking about software controlling some sort of cabinet making machine.... I guess that'd be a little harder to write


My humble little electronic music community site
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