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Geek Culture / Wierd PS3 backwards compatability

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fik
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Posted: 7th Jan 2008 14:34
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Just found something really odd. My new PS3 40gig (yeah to late after price drop too get a 60. they disapeared very fast with no annoucment I noticed !!) So I knew it wouldn't play my PS2 games no problem as still have it. But just had to see what would happen if I tried. Just says PS2 format not playerble or words ro that effect. Then just for the sake of it. Don't know really why, I tried a PS1 game and much to my suprise/amazement it let me set up a vertual memory card and run perfectly !!!
How's that for crazy backwards compatability can't play last gen game but gen before it does . Never seen this advertised
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Roxas
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Posted: 7th Jan 2008 14:38
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The 40gb version doesnt have PS2 Emulation..


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Zappo
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Posted: 7th Jan 2008 14:40
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The PS3 will always have PS1 compatibility, its only PS2 compatibility which was removed in the 40GB version. You can buy and download PS1 games for your PS3 through the online PSN store.


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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 7th Jan 2008 16:13
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Quote: "its only PS2 compatibility which was removed in the 40GB version"


Which is precisely the absurd situation fik described.

Looks like we might be able to resurrect all those PS1 games that won't run on a PS2.

Any guesses at what the PS4 will do?
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 7th Jan 2008 16:16
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Do you have the original spyro games? Because that totally makes up for not having ps2 compatability.


Superman wears Chuck Norris PJ's
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Zappo
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Posted: 7th Jan 2008 17:39 Edited at: 7th Jan 2008 17:39
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Quote: "Which is precisely the absurd situation fik described."

The PS1 is an awful lot easier to emulate than the PS2. It was a much less powerful machine so the PS3 (and half decent PCs for that matter) have no problem emulating all of the PS1 hardware in software, just as fast as the original.
PS2 emulation requires a lot more work which is why it has had several updates to fix particular games which wouldn't run under emulation. These fixes, patches and improvements require lots of time and money which has to be paid for somehow. Because the PS3 hardware really is 'new' and different and not just an update of older/existing technology, the only sure-fire way to make all PS2 games work would be to include the PS2 hardware inside. That would make the price go up instead of down.
Its certainly disappointing that they chose to remove PS2 compatibility but its not really absurd considering the biggest complaint about the PS3 was its price tag. If they continued to provide the emulation then they would have to continue to update it and spend money on it. Personally, I would rather their time was spent on improving and adding new features rather than running old stuff.

Luckily for me I bought a 60GB one before they sold out but I don't really expect to see any more updates to the PS2 emulator part of it. Besides, it runs everything I have thrown at it and I don't play many of my old games any more anyway.


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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 7th Jan 2008 20:51
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I'm so frustrated with Sony. Besides ganking the customers with the price, they decided to ganking them by taking out the PS2 compatibility with that version of PS3. Just another way of them trying to man handle you into getting the 'better' version of the PS3.

I'm also mad at Sony for failing miserably with the PSP. The games pretty much suck, and the system is hard to use for half of the potentially good games out there because it doesn't have a second analog stick...

Oh! But wait, lets redesign the PSP! Ok! Cool! Whats the biggest new feature? The PSP's screen turns... WTF? How about... just turn your hands??? Lulz... #fail if you ask me. They should have just added in another analog stick... Or designed it with one in the first place. Not sure what they were thinking.
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 7th Jan 2008 22:06
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Or given it a less stiff analogue stick that's actually a stick and not a sliding Ludo counter.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Zappo
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Posted: 8th Jan 2008 01:00
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Quote: "Just another way of them trying to man handle you into getting the 'better' version of the PS3."

There is only one version of the PS3 available here now - the 40GB version without PS2 compatibility. They ceased making the older version so there isn't a 'better' version.


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Krilik
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Posted: 8th Jan 2008 09:34
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Quote: "I'm so frustrated with Sony. Besides ganking the customers with the price, they decided to ganking them by taking out the PS2 compatibility with that version of PS3. Just another way of them trying to man handle you into getting the 'better' version of the PS3.

I'm also mad at Sony for failing miserably with the PSP. The games pretty much suck, and the system is hard to use for half of the potentially good games out there because it doesn't have a second analog stick...

Oh! But wait, lets redesign the PSP! Ok! Cool! Whats the biggest new feature? The PSP's screen turns... WTF? How about... just turn your hands??? Lulz... #fail if you ask me. They should have just added in another analog stick... Or designed it with one in the first place. Not sure what they were thinking. "


You could just buy a PS2... They're like $100, and wait for the PS3 to drop in price again.

PSP having no good games is a myth... Metacritic lists 52 PSP games with a score of 80 or more. Nintendo DS has 45. Same with the PS3 having no games. 41 with 80 or more. Xbox 360 had 40 with 80 or more between 2005 and 2006. And 41 in 2007. Wii has a measly 13 with a score of 80 or more.
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Dazzag
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Posted: 8th Jan 2008 09:59
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Quote: "You could just buy a PS2... They're like $100, and wait for the PS3 to drop in price again"
Think a brand new PS2 from a high street store still sets you back about $185 in the UK. And don't even ask about PS3/HD-DVD players. Good olde rip-off-Britain...

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Kentaree
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Posted: 8th Jan 2008 10:46 Edited at: 8th Jan 2008 10:49
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Quote: "Because the PS3 hardware really is 'new' and different and not just an update of older/existing technology, the only sure-fire way to make all PS2 games work would be to include the PS2 hardware inside. That would make the price go up instead of down."


How exactly? Remember when the US and Japan got the PS3 with the PS2 emulation hardware, and Europe got it without, at a higher price?

[Edit]: Oh, and Krilik: The 360 has 81 games with 80 or more on metacritic...

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Kentaree
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Posted: 8th Jan 2008 12:04
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Hardly, wasn't it the case that the same price in euros as it was in dollars, it was more than a markup of just 21% as it would be over here (Ireland) if it was just taxes.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 8th Jan 2008 12:35 Edited at: 8th Jan 2008 12:40
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Quote: "Xbox 360 had 40 with 80 or more between 2005 and 2006. And 41 in 2007."


Quote: "Oh, and Krilik: The 360 has 81 games with 80 or more on metacritic..."


Thank God, there's an agreement.

It strikes me as odd to have a console without backwards compatability nowadays. I could also just buy a NES, SNES, N64 and GC, but I assume we all agree its nothing more than service to 'include' them in the Wii. Personally, I still think lack of backward compatability is one of the weakest points in the PS3: selling your old console in favor of a new one isn't a really odd thing to do and people unlike you and me, contrary to unpopular belief, assume that there's such backward compatability. I guess we'll have to wait until the PS4 for that.


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Chenak
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Posted: 8th Jan 2008 21:00 Edited at: 8th Jan 2008 21:08
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Quote: "Sony made big loss with the very first models that had PS2 hardware integrated. That's the whole reason why they switched to software emulation. The higher price in Europe is due to taxes."


No, last I heard the PS3 was delayed for MONTHS because of them trying to get tax cut off, and apparently it did go through so they got it in tax free, but they still increased the price more so than the other countries, and thats with the crap downgrade. Even with taxes it still is way over the top compared to everywhere else.

Quote: "you could just buy a PS2... They're like $100, and wait for the PS3 to drop in price again."

Why the heck? NO. Sony said that the xbox360 compatibility was a pile of rubbish compared to the ps3, now it doesnt have ANY. Why should I settle for less when other countries get the console for cheaper and with near full backwards compatibility, what did europe do to deserve it lol.

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Roxas
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Posted: 9th Jan 2008 15:11
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Quote: "Why the heck? NO. Sony said that the xbox360 compatibility was a pile of rubbish compared to the ps3, now it doesnt have ANY. Why should I settle for less when other countries get the console for cheaper and with near full backwards compatibility, what did europe do to deserve it lol."


Cuz sony said that 40gb version will cut out some features to get it cheaper to normal..


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tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Jan 2008 15:21 Edited at: 9th Jan 2008 15:22
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Some features is not equal to rendering my whole 30-games PS2 collection useless.


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Roxas
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Posted: 9th Jan 2008 15:59
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Quote: "Some features is not equal to rendering my whole 30-games PS2 collection useless."


Yes i think thats stupid too.. They could take off some other features.. But there isnt really any than Blu-Ray but you need it to play games :/


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Van B
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Posted: 9th Jan 2008 16:33
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The 360 backwards compatibility is really a hit and miss affair... Halo 1 and 2, Fable, Doom3 - these games work very nicely, some visual glitches in Halo2 sometimes but all in all pretty good support. But, that's about it!, I bought Fusion Frenzy on Live, for some reason it's much slower than it should be. Now I can excuse that with some obscure Xbox original game, but one that they're actually re-selling? - no excuse for that. Plus they need to get a decent back catalogue on the go, there's only about 10 games available - pretty slim pickings considering how many XBox games are out there.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
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Zappo
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Posted: 9th Jan 2008 16:42
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Quote: "Some features is not equal to rendering my whole 30-games PS2 collection useless."

That's a little over dramatic, don't you think? I doubt you would trade in your PS2 to buy a PS3 as the trade-in value just wouldn't be worth it.
I understand its annoying but you should look at the ability to play PS2 games on the original PS3's as a bonus. They didn't try to hide the fact it was being removed and they did it because of all the moaning about the machine costing too much. I guess now that argument has gone you have to find something else to moan about it . Actually, even if they did keep the emulator in (and keep updating it when you moan that a particular game doesn't work quite right) you would probably not be happy about having to buy an adapter to copy your saved games over from your old PS2 memory cards.
Did you complain that the N64 wouldn't play your SNES games? Or that your Commodore Amiga wouldn't play your Commodore64 games? Nope, because its different hardware. Move on. Its a new generation.


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tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Jan 2008 17:49
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Yes, I did complain about my N64 not being able to play my SNES, but back then my parents still paid for my stuff. Maybe you have massive amounts of money, sorry, but some people don't.


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Chenak
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Posted: 9th Jan 2008 20:16
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Quote: "Cuz sony said that 40gb version will cut out some features to get it cheaper to normal.."


Except they stopped making the 60gb version, which doesnt even have the same level of backwards compatibilty as the non european versions. Its really difficult to find the 60gb version over here now.

Quote: "That's a little over dramatic, don't you think? I doubt you would trade in your PS2 to buy a PS3 as the trade-in value just wouldn't be worth it."


£60-70 for a slim ps2 or £40-50 for a brick ps2 isn't a lot? O.o Its quite a bit to me, then again I am a student. I mean £400 down to £340 ish can be a big difference.

Quote: "They didn't try to hide the fact it was being removed and they did it because of all the moaning about the machine costing too much."


Well they did hide the fact from us. They said their compatibility brilliant. Sure understandable that they release a cheaper on with no compatibility, but the more expensive version still had RUBBISH compatibility since they created a cut down version for us. People were moaning about the price because it was DOUBLE the price compared to other countries, and it had less features! Bit of a bad deal for us isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, think its a great machine, just think they are ripping us off because they made a loss selling it cheaper everywhere else. I hoping the get the 80GB version if it gets released here, if not I'm not getting it.
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Krilik
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Posted: 9th Jan 2008 20:16
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Then wait for the price to drop again

I don't see how its any cheaper for you to get rid of an old console for about 1/4 its value to pay for a newer console, than to wait for the newer console to drop in price and keep your old console.
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Jeku
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Posted: 9th Jan 2008 20:32 Edited at: 9th Jan 2008 20:35
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Some people don't have more than a few inputs on their TVs either. I have my Wii, 360, PS3, and HD Cable hooked up to my TV. If I had a PS2 as well, that would really suck. I'm not in that situation, but I can see how that would be annoying.

ESPECIALLY after Sony publicly ridiculed Micosoft for lack of BC on the 360

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Zappo
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Posted: 10th Jan 2008 12:09 Edited at: 10th Jan 2008 13:08
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Quote: "Maybe you have massive amounts of money, sorry, but some people don't."

No I certainly don't, and I don't understand your point there. They drop the compatibility in order to drop the price and make it cheaper. Surely thats better if you don't have much money?!
Quote: "£60-70 for a slim ps2 or £40-50 for a brick ps2 isn't a lot?"

Can you really get that much for trading in a second hand PS2 on its own? Gamestation sell brand new PS2 slimlines with a game for £99 so I doubt a shop would give you £70 for a second hand console on its own. They couldn't sell it for that.
Quote: "Well they did hide the fact from us. They said their compatibility brilliant. Sure understandable that they release a cheaper on with no compatibility, but the more expensive version still had RUBBISH compatibility since they created a cut down version for us. People were moaning about the price because it was DOUBLE the price compared to other countries, and it had less features! Bit of a bad deal for us isn't it?"

I live in the UK and I knew all about the changes in the 40GB version. It wasn't hidden from me. I have the 60GB version and its compatibility is very good. I have quite a few PS2 games (of which to be honest there are only a couple I actually go back and play occasionally) and it works with all of those apart from the ones which require the Gametrak - which is understandable.
I agree that when comparing the price of UK consoles to those abroad we are being ripped off, but you can say the same for a lot of things (CDs, DVDs, cars, fuel etc). You have to compare UK prices with UK prices or you will always be disappointed. Its sad and annoying.
Quote: "I hoping the get the 80GB version if it gets released here, if not I'm not getting it."

Well, as I mentioned in another post, Sony have come forward and support people upgrading the hard disk themselves. There is a good tutorial on CNET and all you need is a bog standard 2.5inch SATA hard drive. No need to buy a Sony one, or even one certified by them.

There was a news item reported this morning by Eurogamer which might be of interest to 360 owners. It basically says that there may not be any more updates to the 360 BC from now on so if you have any games which don't work now, you could be out of luck.
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=90397

EDIT: Just read another news item saying that Japan will only be able to supply the 40GB PS3 (without BC) from this month. They currently still have the more expensive older 20GB and 60GB models too, but when stocks are gone that will be it. I am guessing they are working on having the same model available all over the world for easier management and to cut costs/prices further. They did say that they will release new models "to respond to end-user preferences sometime in the future", so it could see a return of BC if there is enough demand - but I wouldn't hold your breath.


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Chenak
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Posted: 10th Jan 2008 15:49
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Quote: "Can you really get that much for trading in a second hand PS2 on its own? Gamestation sell brand new PS2 slimlines with a game for £99 so I doubt a shop would give you £70 for a second hand console on its own. They couldn't sell it for that."


I can, but not from gamestation because they try to rip me off Theres a local store that I use which does fair trade prices as long as the machine works. They were offering 70 for silver ps2 slims with 2 silver controllers during christmas because they were quite high in demand at the time.

Quote: "I live in the UK and I knew all about the changes in the 40GB version"


Yer as i said its fair enough to release a cut down version and we were well aware of that. I personally wasn't aware of the 60gb version being cut down compared to everywhere else. Now they have stopped making the 60gb version so now we are stuck with an expensive inferior 40GB version permanently.

The 60gb version does have bad backwards compatibility, however in order for a game to be compatible in my eyes it needs to have sound and graphics working perfectly. A lot of my games I've tried out on my friends machine don't seem to work correctly if at all.

This includes final fantasy 10 and 12, Silent Hill 2, 3 & 4, gta san andreas, Siren, Clock Tower 3 and some other random games. These are not exactly unpopular games O.o Well some of them at least.

Quote: "Well, as I mentioned in another post, Sony have come forward and support people upgrading the hard disk themselves. There is a good tutorial on CNET and all you need is a bog standard 2.5inch SATA hard drive. No need to buy a Sony one, or even one certified by them."


Its not the hard drive size Im worried about, its the features. Backwards compatibility, amount of devices that can be plugged in the thing, HDMI cables not included, lack of ports and all sorts of other little things. Wouldn't normally matter if the 60gb version was still in production but it isn't.
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