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Geek Culture / Are we still doing the TGC Webring?

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KeithC
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Posted: 16th Jan 2008 02:36 Edited at: 6th Feb 2008 04:28
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Haven't seen much on this lately, other than it went down. I wanted to know if I should include it in my new site.

-Keith

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 16th Jan 2008 02:57
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It was brought to my attention not long ago. I've been trying to get in touch with Josh about it but he's never online and hasn't responded to the email I sent him yet. I'm assuming Jess may have forgot to renew the DNS, because Coder's Turf is still up. Don't worry about linking back for now, after I get in touch with Josh and Jess to see what's going on I'll post here and let everyone know what's happening.

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KeithC
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Posted: 16th Jan 2008 03:03 Edited at: 20th Jan 2008 19:23
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It's still going to be a few weeks before the main site is online (just the forums for now); but I'd like to include the graphic on the first upload. Anyways, as soon as you know...

-Keith

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 16th Jan 2008 03:09
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np, once I know I'll be sure to let everyone else know what's going on. Also, drop me an email when you get your site live, I'll link you on our website after its overhaul is finished . Well, Agent Dink will anyway, he's redoing our website from the ground up so I don't know how anything works yet, lol.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 16th Jan 2008 06:06
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I'll tell him to, I'm practically his boss anyway.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 16th Jan 2008 06:30
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Too bad I already saw this thread Rami. And no you ain't my boss... Once we have salaries it won't be can you do this... it will be do this by such and such time or else we're screwed.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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tha_rami
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Posted: 16th Jan 2008 06:33
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Once we have salaries, we'll talk about deadlines. Talk about them. Negotiate. You know I'm good at that .

I just hope Gil doesn't read this, else we'll demand a salary for Untitled.


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 16th Jan 2008 22:24 Edited at: 16th Jan 2008 22:24
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My books must be messed up, I could've sworn Dink was the Art Director and webmaster, lol. And once you guys have salaries, nothing is going to change deadline-wise, we'll still work in the same format we're in now, you'll just be working more hours . Hooray for extending 14-hour workdays!

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Tom J
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Posted: 16th Jan 2008 23:01 Edited at: 16th Jan 2008 23:04
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Even before the domain expired, the webring had been forgotten for quite a while. Maybe when the domain is renewned, we could do a better job of promoting it

For example, having a section in the next newsletter or bringing it to the FPSC communities attention. I believe there are many resources sites over there that aren't part of this.

edit: Oh, and ill just post the CT subdomain again for anybody who doesn't have a clue whats going on: http://tgcwebring.codersturf.com
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 16th Jan 2008 23:31
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Well, people were still registering for it (last registration was in December), but a lot of people didn't understand about linking back and all that, so at face value it looks much less active than it really is, hehe. The biggest problem is that the ring has more people subscribing than it has visiting... that needs to get worked on, hehe. After we sort out the domain issue, I'll get in touch with Vink and see if we can get this in the next newsletter, and I'll make a thread over in FPSC chat as well. Any other ideas you might have would be helpful .

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xplosys
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Posted: 17th Jan 2008 00:22
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The link backs on my site currently direct to koetsuaboshi.net. Pretty girl, but probably not what people would be looking for. Well maybe....

Anyway, this is pretty common. The concept and inception of a website are much more appealing than the maintenance and promotion. Getting your site seen, used and showing up in search results is a job done daily. Unless someone is dedicated to making the site a success, it won't happen.

Two things. First, if someone needs help with search engine optimization, I would be happy to assist as time permits. Second, I still own FPSRING.COM, and if someone is going to take up the job and maintain the site, I would be happy to point it to the TGC Webring site, as I'm not using it.

Best.

fpsFREE.com - for FREE FPSC Content
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KeithC
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Posted: 17th Jan 2008 03:39 Edited at: 20th Jan 2008 19:24
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Ozark Games still gets quite a few hits daily; so when you're done, I'll make it a sticky in the General section there. That should help.

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Zombie 20
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Posted: 19th Jan 2008 11:48
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Quote: "I just hope Gil doesn't read this, else we'll demand a salary for Untitled.
"


*cough* lol


Coffee coffee coffee coffee coffee coffee cappacino, JAVA!
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Aertic
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Posted: 19th Jan 2008 14:10
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Yep, Im the only one At ozark Game's, Now its BDG.

FPSXtreme Developer member.
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Inspire
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Posted: 19th Jan 2008 20:35
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You keep posting that everywhere, Tatters.

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Aertic
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Posted: 20th Jan 2008 12:35
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No I dont, This Is my second Time I said that.
Ah, Whatever.
I think you should just post you're New web in the Ring anyway.

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KeithC
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Posted: 20th Jan 2008 19:25
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There isn't much member activity at Ozark Games; but we still get a steady stream of visitors daily.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 03:23
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The webring is by no means dead yet, but it's certainly heading that way. We need to revitalize the TGC Webring before it's too late. Rami and Agent Dink proposed that we make a new webring over from scratch. The webring has always belonged to the community as a whole, every feature that exists was born out of the community democratically allowing it to exist, and we have no intention of letting that change. So, we need to discuss something, as a community. Do we:

(A) Review the webring and get Josh to perform mass upgrades to the site, and begin a massive overhaul of the webring as it stands currently

~ or ~

(B) Make an entirely new webring from the ground up. The new one would still belong to the community, 150%. Everything will still be handled with the same democratic system we used to create the first one, regardless of who hosts it. It'd be the same webring but with new features and a new home.

It mostly comes down to how much free time Josh has right now, and how much he has in the future. If we overhaul the current website, it's going to take up a lot of his time, and keeping things moving fluidly will involve Josh adding the webring to his regular duties... on top of Coder's Turf, it might be an overload. We could host it elsewhere and re-build the webring from scratch, with the administrative stuff spread out over more than one person, and naturally keep the features everyone likes and maybe add new features that people want. So long as the host understands that the webring is the property of the TGC community and not something they have absolute power over.

The only reason a major overhaul is necessary is because the rules of the webring go largely unnoticed. The queue for websites that are pending approval is staggering, mostly because people try to submit their websites without linking back to the webring. We need to make changes at the design level so the rules are more forwardly presented, so people stop submitting websites that us moderators can't approve. Like, the ability to have the submitting person provide us with a link to where they link back to the webring. And a clear definition of the rule regarding linking back might help as well . So anyway, yeah, we all need to start discussing this and work out what to do/ where to go from here. It's time to rally the community and save the webring

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KeithC
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 13:12 Edited at: 24th Jan 2008 13:13
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Well, I'm looking to set up my main site sometime next week; so I'm not sure the ring will make it on there for a little bit (unless you're using the same address as before).

I'd say build it from the ground up....but....since time is a concern for Josh; I'd say keep it the way it is for now, and build the new one slowly. Then migrate all the current members over manually...and then do a grand opening/advert campaign. I plan on catering to mulptiple communities myself; so the ring would get some crossover audience. I have a small section on my main site that I made specifically for affiliates; so the webring would go there.

Are we allowed to make our own graphic button for it...or will there be a specific one to download?

-Keith

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Tom J
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 20:02 Edited at: 24th Jan 2008 20:02
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I don't mind either way but you should check with Josh first (with time available and how he feels). A new one would be pretty cool though. Maybe one with a TGC - style look
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th Jan 2008 23:27
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We could alternatively host it elsewhere. I have some bandwidth I'm not using, and I can't speak for Agent Dink but I think he could spare some as well. Depends on how free Josh is for an overhaul really, I don't want to "cut josh out" or anything but it's something worth mentioning if he doesn't have a lot of free time. I'd also like it to look more like TGC, and there's a few other changes I'd like to see as well. I'll talk to Josh on Messenger soon and see what we can do

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Tom J
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Posted: 25th Jan 2008 17:37 Edited at: 25th Jan 2008 17:37
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Ive got a load of bandwidth, cos there is little of interest on my site (besides the games at the moment). Seriously I have used very little of it
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Tom J
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 20:26
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*bump* This is getting lost towards the bottom of page 3, and any further and this thread could have been completely forgotten about.

@Matt: Have you contacted Josh yet? I was wondering if the CT forums would be a quicker way of talking to him (if that hasn't already been done).
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 23:02
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I never see Josh online these days, mostly because of our time difference.

@ Agent Dink, Rami, and everyone else on my Yahoo friends list: My computer has been acting up all week and getting online has been hit or miss, and trying to get on messenger services (yahoo, MSN, or xfire) today has kicked me off the net entirely, to a point where I have to reset my router to get back online . I hate sending personal messages over the forums but I don't think I have much choice right now, so, sorry to everyone else for having to read that lol. I'll have it worked out as soon as possible!

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 1st Feb 2008 23:09
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Ok Matt, it's cool, I have some stuff pending your approval, but it can wait. I'll just work on other stuff

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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Jess T
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 13:37
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I let the re-registration slide for the domain name.

Sorry guys!

No excuses. So we'll either have to try and buy it back, or get a new domain name (tgcwebring.com would possibly bring more traffic).

Nintendo DS & Dominos :: DS Dominos
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 15:26
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If we were to redo the site - may I suggest Drupal?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 17:38 Edited at: 4th Feb 2008 17:39
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[edit: nm]


Hurray for teh logd!
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Jess T
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 04:33
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You would say that, wouldn't you, Nick?

Jerico... Josh hosts the site, so either way, he's the one you should talk to.

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 05:09
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Quote: "I just hope Gil doesn't read this, else we'll demand a salary for Untitled."

I demand a salary for Untitled.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 09:12
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Quote: "Jerico... Josh hosts the site, so either way, he's the one you should talk to."


Nah, I was just offering the domain, but then I realized that the setup would be a giant pain (cuz i'm using it for hosting members on subdomains), and I'd be willing to spend the 7 bucks just so I wouldn't have to monkey with it


Hurray for teh logd!
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 12:52
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Quote: "You would say that, wouldn't you, Nick?"


Its because I'm a Drupal Fanboi - I cant help it

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tha_rami
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 00:33
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Quote: "I demand a salary for Untitled."

You're right. A salary would be appropriate. I demand a salary too.


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 00:35
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Quote: "You're right. A salary would be appropriate. I demand a salary too."

But you're the "manager", so you have to come up with the money to pay me (and yourself, if you happen to have any left over) with.


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tha_rami
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 02:43
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Quote: "But you're the "manager", so you have to come up with the money to pay me (and yourself, if you happen to have any left over) with."

You'll have to ask the treasurer about that.


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 12:33
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Any chance this thread could be kept mildly on topic rather than turning it into a debate about salaries for a "company"?

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tha_rami
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 12:35
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Not a company, don't worry, just a magazine. Do read it, it's called Untitled and it's in Geek Culture in PDF, JPG and about games .

Back on topic, you lousy sea-dogs! arr!


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Jeku
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 17:28
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Isn't a CMS like Drupal a bit overkill for a small webring? Why can't it be a nice one-page site with a bunch of links?


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Tom J
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 17:32
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Thats what it was in the first place
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 00:00
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A CMS is overkill... But would have some nice features, eg easy integration for a voting system.

A one page site with a bunch of links suffices though. Although how would you propose people request addition of links? Good old fashioned email maybe?

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Tom J
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 18:41
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Quote: "A one page site with a bunch of links suffices though. Although how would you propose people request addition of links? Good old fashioned email maybe?"


Once again, that's pretty much spot on to what the webring was in the first place It was just one page with links and an email with which to contact the webmaster, to update the links.

Couldn't you just have a webform of sorts which autosends the form data (about the site) to a moderator/webmaster, who can manually then add it to a MySQL database? I mean it makes little difference timewise to the old system which also had the stuff moderated before it was properly submitted?
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Jess T
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 04:16
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Doesn't Google penalize sites that are simply link-mongers?

I'm pretty sure that a system like what is there now will have a better page rank (given that it has some content other than just links), and will be more useful to people who come across the site looking for other like-minded sites.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 06:39 Edited at: 8th Feb 2008 06:39
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Quote: "Once again, that's pretty much spot on to what the webring was in the first place It was just one page with links and an email with which to contact the webmaster, to update the links."

When you submit a website currently, one of the moderators (me or Dabip usually) sees your website in a queue, and we have to go and inspect the website manually to check for content, a link back to the ring, and other stuff. Josh set up an internal system for us where we can contact you directly if there's an issue, but as it stands, it's a pretty great system, and I like how it's set up.

Quote: "I'm pretty sure that a system like what is there now will have a better page rank (given that it has some content other than just links), and will be more useful to people who come across the site looking for other like-minded sites."

Yeah, I like the current system, with some slight modification to make life easier for mods of course. I very much want a confirmation system in place that directly shows us where the link-back to the webring can be found, and I want that to be a mandatory, non-optional step in registration, so people understand that they absolutely must link back to the webring to have their sites approved. It's a bit of a pain going over every single website that's submitted to search for a link, hehe.

Sorry for being away guys, I'd lost my internet for a while and I've only been online in short spurts since then, having a problem with corrupted data on my HD .

@ Jess: Did you get my emails I sent before? You didn't write back, there was an unrelated question I asked in them .

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Jess T
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 07:24
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Matt, no, sorry mate, no emails. Send them again, and hopefully I'll get them this time

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Tom J
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Posted: 12th Feb 2008 22:51 Edited at: 12th Feb 2008 22:59
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I managed to whip this up, not just because I had too much free time (school holidays ) but also as motivation to learn MySQL and some more php, so that I can make use of it in the future. The actual layout and colour scheme of it is total crap () but the whole idea of doing it was to get a basic system up and running, at the moment its pretty similar to the original. http://www.gamingc.net/Exp.php (And yes, I know only a fraction of the webring is on there - and also it is only for viewing sites at the moment). Also As far as I know, we havn't consulted Josh as well yet so this example is just an experimental testy thingy at the moment.

I feel it would be a good idea to keep a similar system to before, as that worked relatively well, however a lot of us had suggestions for improvements or changes to the image and features, so maybe it would be better to focus on those areas more than completely redoing how the sites are managed.

But I want to see what everyone else thinks, should it stay sort of like that and the original, or become what Jeku / Nick suggested?
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 12:19
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Tom - its funny you should say that. I knocked this up on Monday in about 1 hour...

http://webring.dbp-site.com/

I'm using the Link module for Drupal and I'm planning on solving this issue so we can count clicks too without losing any SEO value in the links.

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Tom J
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 12:39 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 12:42
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Wow, that site is great Yours is better by many times - but I don't mind too much because my site was partially just motivation to learn some php.

That site sways my opinion a lot, Drupal may well be overkill but it sure does make stuff organized looking.

Only minor crtiticsm is that some tags are very similar, but still different: for example "Projects" and "Project" mean the same thing, but when you click on the Project tag, sites with the Projects tag won't appear. Also tags relating to the products (eg. DBP) might be a good idea, so that somebody can look through all the DBP sites.
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 12:50 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 13:56
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TomJ: The Project/Projects thing was my mistake (thanks for pointing it out!) I made a typo.

Basically, when I fill out the form to create a site, there is a text field for comma separating categories in a 'free tagging' style. Drupal DOES do autocomplete, but I ignored it because I have an ego and I dont take orders from computers hehe. So I typed in Project for one site and Projects for another. Drupal didn't know the difference to automatically created two categories.

I agree about tagging sites "DBP", "DBC" or "FPSC". Very good idea!

Any motivation to learn PHP or MySQL is good so please dont take my attempt as a "mine is better than yours". For a first attempt at a PHP site - I thought yours was good (Waaaay better than my early PHP sites!).

So - I'm going to work on patching the Link module to work with link counters (using jQuery to do an OnClick capture for the webpages and it will do some kind of AJAX/JSON callback to increment a counter). I will enable Comments too if people like. I'm also thinking of enabling one of these modules...
http://drupal.org/project/fivestar
http://drupal.org/project/jrating
http://drupal.org/project/vote_up_down

Any thoughts?

One other idea I COULD do is if people have sites with RSS I can get an aggregator for the webring too... Something like: http://drupal.org/planet

EDIT: Btw, does anyone fancy being a moderator?

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 17:58 Edited at: 13th Feb 2008 17:59
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ok... Update time!

1) Added the VotingAPI and the FiveStar module. Anonymous people can vote (ie you dont need to register). FiveStar also only allows each IP to vote once every 6 hours... This is an anti-spamming rule and can be tweaked if people feel its necessary.

2) Enabled commenting. Comments require moderator approval.

3) Enabled anonymous site submission. These require moderation too (using the Modr8 module).

4) Done some theme tweaking. Please let me know if you notice any weird issues (after trying a force refresh - Ctrl+F5 on Windows, Apple+R on OSX (Safari you have to manually empty the cache AFAIK).

Thoughts?

Do any of those sites have RSS which could be aggregated to produce a "planet" section? I know my 'darkbasicpro' tag on my blog does...

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Tom J
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Posted: 13th Feb 2008 18:19
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Cool, this is making a lot of progress quickly If the submit thing works then I'll add my site

Also, its great to see that you thought my webring page was a good attempt at php, thanks for the positive feedback

If this site is accepted by everyone else then I don't mind moderating, although Matt and Dabip should be offered firstly probably as they are the mods of the old one.

Not too certain what you mean by the RSS "planets" thing, would it be like a combined RSS feed from lots of sites or something of that sort?
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