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Geek Culture / Apple and Direct X

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Flatlander
FPSC Tool Maker
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Posted: 29th Jan 2008 00:33
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I am totally Apple illiterate. I have only had Tandy (late 1970s - 1980s) to Pc computers all my life.

Has Apple incorporated MS's Direct X so that games can play on their machine? IOW, can DBP and FPSC run on an Apple? (Guess they're called Macs now).

As opposed to Highlander.
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tha_rami
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Posted: 29th Jan 2008 00:45 Edited at: 29th Jan 2008 00:46
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Would you be male and married, Flatlander? That would make your wife a 'Flatlander woman'...

Got no idea concerning your question.


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
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ionstream
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Posted: 29th Jan 2008 00:48 Edited at: 29th Jan 2008 00:50
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DirectX is a microsoft technology, so the only way to run DirectX games (or windows games for that matter) is to do that whole bootcamp thing and install windows onto the Mac. I think that it works pretty well though, with few compatibility problems.

Drink Pepsi!
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Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 29th Jan 2008 01:53
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I'll stil with my original claim from over the past decade, OGL is better.


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Flatlander
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Posted: 29th Jan 2008 02:46
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tha_rami @ "Would you be male and married, Flatlander? That would make your wife a 'Flatlander woman'..."

Yup, but she is only living in the Flatlands as I am. Any other reference to that is privileged information.

Are the Netherlands mountainous?

ionstream: Thats what I thought. I didn't realize you can install windows on the Mac. Interesting. There is an educational online business (Class.Com) that wants to create game-like programs for their on-line classes. They probably will want to have them available for the Mac as well. So, they may have to do it the hard way with C++ or C#.

Phaelax: Uhhh! I must not truly be a Geek. What does OGL mean? I do love learning new stuff.

As opposed to Highlander.
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WarGoat
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Posted: 29th Jan 2008 02:51
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OGL means Open GL, another graphics API, like DX

Windows Vista, Q6600 2.4ghz, 2gb Ram 800mhz - low latency, 8800 GTS 512 mb
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ThinkDigital
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Posted: 29th Jan 2008 02:58
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Apple computers don't run DX natively, the end. Emulators can try it, but natively it's impossible. OpenGL works on pretty much anything, but many people think it was designed for a future that's come and gone.

"Variables won't, constants aren't."
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 29th Jan 2008 03:49 Edited at: 29th Jan 2008 03:53
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Parallels Desktop for mac is pretty good, but has no dx support I think they are working on adding it.

[href]mod2software[/href]
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Jan 2008 11:05
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On a new Mac with an Intel CPU it is possible using Bootcamp to install Windows and get DX. Mac OS supports OGL (games like Quake). So if you want to create a game that runs in both Windows and Mac OS your best option is C++ and some library that runs on both, like SDL for 2D.

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Flatlander
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Posted: 29th Jan 2008 17:45 Edited at: 29th Jan 2008 17:47
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Hey, thanks to you all.

I will pass along the info to my friend (he's in charge of class development). Yes, I had already told him that using C++ or C# would probably be the best but it's good to get other opinions. This has been quite helpful.

However, I'm not sure if he's ready to implement this as it will require additional "geeks." It would have been cheaper to go with DBP. I'm not sure if they even have a C++ programmer let alone someone who would be efficient at game development.

As opposed to Highlander.
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n008
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Posted: 30th Jan 2008 03:42
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Quote: "Would you be male and married, Flatlander? That would make your wife a 'Flatlander woman'..."


I love that book.

That would aalso make her a line.

Have you been eating bird crap again DrewG? -- Cash Curtis II
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 30th Jan 2008 11:12
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F l a t l a n d e r:
There are other game development softwares out there then DBP, some which works on multiple platforms. Not sure if there's anything similar to DBP though. Search the net.

As for C++ there are stuff like SDL (Free 2D) and DGDK (which you can get for free for MS Visual Studio). There's also a free IDE and compiler for C++, can't remember what they're called. But DBP is easier to code in unless you know C++.

[center]
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Flatlander
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 00:22
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n008, I do too and this is actually where I got the handle from as well as living in the Midwest of USA which is flat. It really doesn't have anything to do with the Highlands Lowlands of Scotland, or is that Ireland. I think it's Scotland.

DA, I'm already programming in DBP and FPSC and yes it is much easier to code than C++. I'm not a math whiz and am getting too old to learn new tricks so whatever is the easiest. I just talked to a person who owns an IMac. He has Windows installed and he is pretty sure that the Direct X library can be installed. He said that he has a basic Video card ATI Radeon (not sure which one though) with 128MB on board memory. I'm going to take one of my sample games and see if it will run. Of course will be installing DX9.0cFeb2007. I will let everyone know if it works. I guess IMac is a pretty new Apple computer that has an intel processor.

As opposed to Highlander.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 11:03
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There are plenty of different iMacs out there. You can emulate Windows on a Mac but that is very slow. The thing is that if you plan on releasing games for Mac you really must make it run natively in Mac OS because average Joe doesn't bother with emulation and Bootcamp.

While all programming languages are very similar, it's quite a huge step to go from DBP to C++. Especially if you are getting older and don't really have the same interest any longer. DBP gets you very far as long as you only plan on developing PC games.

[center]
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Flatlander
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 16:00 Edited at: 31st Jan 2008 16:02
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Hi DA,

I really appreciate your good advice. However, I think I have not explained myself very well. This info is not for me. It is for a friend who works for Class.com. He wants to make game-like course-ware but not actual games. These learning tools will be used in an on-line course package to high schools. 95% of the computers used are PC's. The other 5%, of course, are Apple. Since these are educational institutions, I don't think they would be considered "the average Joe." My friend has already said that it would not be worth the investment for the company to go with C++ programming.

The schools that have the Macs are usually small and the "game-like" software will be optional. So a school will not have to purchase it. There are a lot of other issues besides the compatibility issue that still needs to be resolved but no need to bring that into play here.

I also, brought up the possibility to him that they could also sell the product to schools that do not use an LMS such as Blackboard or Moodle as this tool is outside the LMS.

Again, thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughts. Sharing our thoughts is a good thing.

As opposed to Highlander.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 31st Jan 2008 17:56 Edited at: 31st Jan 2008 17:57
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DirectX on an iMac is an interesting subject - you can actually do it in the following ways :

A) Use Parallels or VMWare - The former can now run programs which use DirectX 8. Dont know about the latter.
B) Use Boot Camp - can then use Vista and DirectX 10

or

C) Interface with the system developed by Coderus (up to DirectX 9)

If you want to write games for a Mac (as well as Windows and Linux), get BlitzMax.

Visit my web site for real bangin' stuff at http://www.nicholaskingsley.co.uk
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Flatlander
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 01:36
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I was finally able to test a X9 game on an I-Mac. He had VISTA installed and so I had to install a current version of X9. All of my games worked using MAC in this manner without any hitches. X9 on VISTA does not interfere with X10. They are just two different graphic libraries and the DBP and FPSC knows the difference.

As opposed to Highlander.
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David R
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 10:04 Edited at: 17th Feb 2008 10:04
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Quote: "Apple computers don't run DX natively, the end. Emulators can try it, but natively it's impossible."


That sentence makes the grand total of 0% sense.

The problem with DX is not the hardware - although that could be a barrier - the problem is the software. It's an interface between software and hardware.

Obviously, lacking the support files for DX means that it can't work. BUT - having something that has an emulated environment which can put said support files there, and it will work, a la Wine. The reason your sentence makes no sense, though, is the usage of emulation and native. The emulation is not strictly emulation as per se. Assuming it's an Intel Mac etc. it is running on native hardware, and can reach native speeds. The only thing that needs to be emulated are the files / The software layer of DX between itself and the machine.

Mac OSX doesn't run DX natively. It has nothing to do with the computers themselves. Plonk Windows on it, and yeah, it will run DX.


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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Flatlander
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 19:49
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This is a general response. When I first asked the question I had no idea about Apple's so called "Boot Camp" and such. So, I guess instead of Apple doing something with their OS and still maintaining their proprietary system in their own way, they decided to allow the MS OS to run on their machines. I'm sure they have been trying to figure out ways to get some more of the computer pie. I've learned a great deal about the i-Mac recently and it is quite a machine. Having the Intel processor and a compatible graphics card allows it to even use the VISTA OS. Even the Apple OS has changed some by using the UNIX OS as another layer. Seems to work similarly to the DOS layer that MS had always had. You can access the command line layer in a similar fashion and then run UNIX command line code and I assume you can even run a UNIX based program as well. Interesting isn't it? MS has wanted to get rid of the DOS layer and now Apple has a layer of their own.

Anyway, my friend at Class.Com has a decision to make. Go with a programming language that creates games needing DX9 or DX10 and requiring those schools who have MAC only to upgrade at least one computer to the i-MAC hybrid or purchase an IBM compatible. They of course can still go with the harder and in the end more expensive route by hiring a good C++ programmer and create the game for both platforms without DX. I am sure he is in a quandary although as I had mentioned before there is less than 5% of their clients who use Apple exclusively.

As opposed to Highlander.
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