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DarkBASIC Discussion / Ultimate Pong!

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TDK
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 20:51 Edited at: 24th Feb 2008 13:57
[Edit] To avoid confusion with earlier versions, only the last posted version of my Ultimate Pong zip will be available to download. (This will always be in the last download post in the thread).

All other download zips will be removed from my server and as such will create download errors if clicked on.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Whenever a newcomer to DB and the forums posts asking for help with their first project - an RPG or MMORPG, we rightly come down on them like a ton of bricks.

After telling them to be realistic, we usually tell them to start with something like Pong and forget the RPG until they know what they are doing.

But, there's Pong... and there's Pong...

I wrote a 2D version about thirty years ago and since then, counted myself as no longer a beginner and didn't really need to bother with it.

However, just recently, mention of it on here got me thinking about how the 'ultimate' game of 3D Pong would look. You know, all the bells and whistles, sound and nice special effects.

To cut a long story short, I started writing my first proper game of pong since around 1975.

What I thought of then was although there are lots of us who yell "start with pong", how many of you who join in would be willing to put your money where your mouthes are and actually write it?

So, this is me throwing down the gauntlet!

If anyone else is interested, all you have to do is write the best looking 3D pong you can and at the end, we can all vote for our favourite version.

If it's not only me doing it, we can discuss timescales later, but I'd be looking at doing it properly over a good few weeks (or even months).

As long as it sticks to the basic two paddles and a ball concept, you can enhance it as much as you want. Really go to town if you like!

You can post WIP's/screenshots in this thread, or just present the finished article, but NO DBA CODE! Only post your exe plus any required media (of which there are absolutely no restrictions) in a zip file. Obviously as single Build Final is OK too.

Right - anyone else up for it?

TDK_Man

Latch
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 21:12
This sounds fun! I hate to admit it, but I never actually coded an outright pong game.

Enjoy your day.
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 22:34
Oooh, that IS tempting. Let's start coding!


TB3ITBPOMITW
Buck1000
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2008 23:21 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2008 23:22
Well, this could be fun, but are there any good tutorials on the physics of pong?

By the way, can it be written in DBPro?
TDK
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 01:44
Quote: "are there any good tutorials on the physics of pong?"


None that I've seen - I'm just making it up as I go along.

I have to admit that it's not easy making the CPU controlled paddle not look robotic.

Quote: "By the way, can it be written in DBPro?"


I was thinking that.

I know this is the DBC board, but it's an exe only challenge, so I can't see why not - it's still Dark Basic...

Might even get a few DBPro experts showing us what can be done when you use a 'proper' Dark Basic!

TDK_Man

n008
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 01:56
Ooh, this looks interesting! I may put my current project on hold and go rewrite my old pong game!

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Pixelator
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 02:24 Edited at: 4th Feb 2008 02:26
i almost got a game of pong done, but the physics if the algles got me. im going to finish 6th grade first.

greek:

πήρα σχεδόν ένα παιχνίδι του pong γίνοντα, αλλά τη φυσική εάν τα algles με πήραν im πηγαίνοντας να τελειώσουν την 6η τάξη πρώτα.

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TDK
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 04:01 Edited at: 4th Feb 2008 04:05
Well seeing as a few of you sound interested, here's what I've got after two evenings worth of coding.

To be honest, it's not very refined and has so many things wrong with it, they aren't worth listing.

But, it does demonstrate what I had in mind. As well as having rather dodgy collision, I ought to say:

1. Don't choose 2 Player mode as it's not working.

2. There's no end to Single Player mode - just press Esc when you are bored - probably after approximately 10 seconds...

I have lots of ideas for more bells and whistles too.

Ultimate Pong V0.1a attached (if attaching a 4MB file works).

[Edit] It didn't! Uploaded it here.


TDK_Man

n008
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Posted: 4th Feb 2008 21:58
WOW.

That was the coolest pong game!

"I have faith, that I shall win the race, even though I have no legs, and am tied to a tree." ~Mark75
Buck1000
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 01:46
Ok then I think I'll give it a shot. I made a small 2D pong game when I was first starting out in DBPro, but I could never get the physics working. Or the AI. In other words, you could never win, as the computer would always have the same y position as the ball

But heck, I'll give this a shot! By the way, can you use external media and then just include it in the EXE?
TDK
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 01:50
Quote: "That was the coolest pong game"


You should see it now!

Quote: "can you use external media and then just include it in the EXE?"


From the opening post: "Only post your exe plus any required media (of which there are absolutely no restrictions) in a zip file. Obviously as single Build Final is OK too."

So yes!

TDK_Man

Libervurto
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 02:31
i made two pong games about 3 years ago
In one you had to beat different coloured bats 1-on-1 and if you did you gained the colour of the bat, if you beat all 7 you end up with a rainbow striped bat

I was annoyed by the lack of sound so I made a second basic pong with my own recorded sounds (me making noises ) I even did the theme tune, it was pretty funny.
They're on my old computer that got fried, it's actually my new computer so I'd better get it fixed
I'll upload my pongs if I can get at them.

Sinani201
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 04:35
How come all the DBPro people come to the DBC board when there's a thread talking about DBPro or a comparison with DBPro?? I find it fascinating that they know if there's a DBPro thing in progress...

Seriously, how do you make the little blue text come up below your message?
TDK
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 08:53 Edited at: 5th Feb 2008 08:56
A lot of users have both and frequent both boards - but only tend to post on the Pro boards I guess.

Anyway, I have to say that I'm quite pleased with how my version of 'Ultimate 3D Pong' is turning out.

V2 is now quite playable as I've ironed out many (but not all) of the collision and ball problems.

No difficulty levels yet, but it is actually beatable!



Can anyone beat it to 21?

The next version will have a few surprises!

Anyone else got anything to show?

Download V2 (4MB) here.

TDK_Man

TheComet
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Posted: 5th Feb 2008 16:25
@TDK

That Game is good! The Only Pong game I`ve ever made is in "UFO-Party".

Here`s the Link to download it:
http://www.thecomet-ufo-party.blogspot.com/

I dont think the physics are outstanding...

TheComet

Oooooops!!! I accidentally formated drive c.
Sinani201
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 01:30 Edited at: 6th Feb 2008 02:46
You made a Pong minigame in UFO party? I didn't see any pongs in those first three minigames you made. Did you make more minigames?
@TDK
You took away the SuperTeleporters! (or at least that's what I call them) They were so fun!!!! I actually put more skill in the game (to aim for the teleporters.

Seriously, how do you make the little blue text come up below your message?
TDK
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 03:22
Quote: "You took away the SuperTeleporters!"


Don't worry - they will be back... and I like the name!

I'm hoping to incorporate a different 'mode' for each game level - and in game level I mean every time either player scores a point, another random 'mode' is selected.

This includes the SuperTeleporters which will rise from the ground and when hit by the ball will sink - only to pop up in another part of the play area.

In other modes they will move around or there will be a whole row of them and you don't know which one it's going to pop out of!

The ball now heats up a bit each time you hit the force field walls (which also cause sparks to fly). When it gets too hot, it implodes into a small ball (physics laws completely ignored there folks) and you have to hit a block of moving ice to cool it down and get it back to normal size.

There will also be walls which rise out of the floor at random - and other little things wandering about to distract you.

I also have ideas for magnet pads, wind tunnels and blocks which change the angle of the ball.

Lots to do!

TDK_Man

Sinani201
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 04:32 Edited at: 6th Feb 2008 04:50
Sounds cool! I was always wondering, how'd you get the music without any media? Memblocks? Hidden Files?
[Edit to avoid double-post]
I was working on a nice 3-D paddle for my game, so I opened up my Anim8or and got this:

Please give some constructive criticism when giving feedback.

Seriously, how do you make the little blue text come up below your message?
TDK
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 04:44
Quote: "how'd you get the music without any media? Memblocks? Hidden Files?"


Go back and read my opening post again!

TDK_Man

Sinani201
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 04:49
I didn't see anything about how you got the music in there...?

Seriously, how do you make the little blue text come up below your message?
Buck1000
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 05:04
You use it like any other time, with an external music file that you load. Then you just check off the box "Include media files in EXE" and put the music file in the list of media to include. Of course this may only be in DBPro...
TDK
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 06:14 Edited at: 6th Feb 2008 06:21
Quote: "I didn't see anything about how you got the music in there...?"


Build Final!! It does mention that in more than one post!

Quote: "how'd you get the music without any media?"


I repeat - read my previous posts. Where does it say anything about any version of Pong not being able to use external media?

TDK_Man

Libervurto
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 15:21
@TDK
Nice game, I think you should make more of the 3D aspect (moving the bat up and down as well as side to side)
How did you do the text? Is it a load of images that you put together using the sprite widths?

TDK
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 17:01
Quote: "I think you should make more of the 3D aspect (moving the bat up and down as well as side to side)"


I had that in there but as it was too hard I took it out. When the ball gets going, it's hard enough coping with moving left and right!

I can put it back as an option when the Options menu is added. I'm adding a control option for using the mouse - at which point moving up/down as well, even I might be able to cope with!

Quote: "How did you do the text?"


Yes, everything is just sprites.

TDK_Man

TheComet
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 17:38 Edited at: 7th Feb 2008 19:00
@ TDK

I love your game and have made these "force towers" to put in each corner of the board. I thought it would look good for a source for that lightning to come from when the ball hits the edge.

@ sinani201
Yes, I`ve made 2 new mini-games, one is called "space race" and the other "Hide or explode". I can`t talk about that here, so why don`t you keep track of that game on my website:Click here

(file attached)

TheComet

Oooooops!!! I accidentally formated drive c.

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Latch
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Posted: 15th Feb 2008 10:24
@TDK
Are those your textures from a DBC challenge?

I'm still trying to piece together an entry. Everytime I start, I get distracted by creating a single shape or texture and get nothing done!

Enjoy your day.
TDK
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Posted: 15th Feb 2008 15:34 Edited at: 15th Feb 2008 17:21
Quote: "Are those your textures from a DBC challenge?"


Yes - but only because the program started off as an example of how good you could do a 3D version of Pong without using external media.

Once I had the idea of making it a challenge, then not allowing 'proper' media was a bit daft. As such, in the current version I've started using .X files and better textures.



TDK_Man

TheComet
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Posted: 15th Feb 2008 19:50
@ TDK

I see you have used(or made a similar force tower by yourself) the force towers from my post above. I like the first floor texture more than the one you have now...

Keep it up

TheComet

Oooooops!!! I accidentally formated drive c.
TDK
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Posted: 16th Feb 2008 01:57
Oops! Sorry, you must think I'm a right prat!

I meant to post the following, but forgot all about it. I'm a little embarrassed now...

The tower idea was a good one, but first of all your model wouldn't load into TrueSpace. What was it made with?

Anyway, I downloaded 3D Explorer, converted it and was then able to load it and I would have used them if it weren't for the fact that they were 1276 poly's each. That makes 5104 poly's for all of them.

So, as I liked the tower idea I basically copied them as close as I could to what you did (but taking off one 'arm' as the force fields only run down two sides).

The current naff textures I used only because I couldn't replicate what you had done, (I'm so-so at modelling but a lot worse at texturing).

However, although they are more or less the same shape as yours, they are only 205 poly's each, making a total of only 820 poly's for all 4 towers - much better for DBC when there are lots of other models and things going on.

I've attached what I did. You are welcome to re-texture them if you can/feel like it, though you may not be able to get so good a finish as it is now so low-poly.

I hope it didn't seem like I was stealing your idea - I did mean to post and tell you what I had to do - it just completely slipped my mind.

So for the record, the towers were completely TheComet's idea and design - I just copied it to make a low-poly version!

TDK_Man

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Jeff032
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Posted: 16th Feb 2008 03:36
Not exactly DB/DBP, but a pong game I made for scewing around with effects and stuff so somewhat ontopic.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=124051&b=2&p=0

I'll remove it if you would rather not have it here, but then again, you are a mod so it would probably just be less work for you to edit my post, but whatever you prefer

Tone3e
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Posted: 16th Feb 2008 04:30
Great I dea. I tried making a simple pong game, but it had a lot of glitches. I didnt manage to construct a good a.i. either. Well I think I can go back and enhance it now that I now a bit more about darkbasic. I am suprised nobody had done this before and btw yours looks great TDK.

[center]
Come see the WIP!center]
TheComet
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Posted: 16th Feb 2008 12:13 Edited at: 16th Feb 2008 12:16
@ TDK

That`s fine. You should not feel embarrassed, because it makes me delighted to see the towers in your game. I like helping out.

Quote: "The tower idea was a good one, but first of all your model wouldn't load into TrueSpace. What was it made with?"


It was made with Blender. I exported it to an X-file and it loaded into DarkBasic on my computer. I don`t know many programs that can import x-files. Can TrueSpace do that?

I think the textures for the towers look ugly(No offence). I don`t know if it will look good, but I was thinking of a dark metal texture like this:



(Image File attached)

TheComet

Oooooops!!! I accidentally formated drive c.

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TDK
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Posted: 19th Feb 2008 13:02
Towers now revamped and the above texture used. They are now looking pretty good. In fact, the whole thing is looking much more like a proper game...

But, I now need all your opinions please.

I'm not sure which is the best camera mode to use. So, I would be grateful if you would all let me know if you thing the stationary camera is best or the moving one.

When playing (ignore the bugs for now please), press the left Ctrl key to switch between the two camera modes.

http://www.computechtenerife.com/tdkpong3.zip

And after trying it, vote for moving or non-moving!

Thanks...

TDK_Man

TheComet
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Posted: 19th Feb 2008 19:17
@TDK

I vote for the 2nd mode(Where the Camera tracks the paddel, so moving).

But, (yes, there is a "but") you should smooth the camera movements. Every time I move, it jerks me left or right, making the game uncomfortable. At the top thread you said, your not allowed to post code, so I compiled the short program I just wrote (file attached) to an EXE.

The textures on the towers look a lot better now. The only thing bothering me now, (and don`t think I can only complain), is the texture on the towers are too small. Scale the texture bigger.

@Everybody

Look at the file attached and vote for which mode you like:

Mode 1:Camera is smooth, following the player and pointing to the center of the board
Mode 2:Camera is smooth, following the player and x-rotated to the center
Mode 3:Camera is smooth, following the player

Oooooops!!! I accidentally formated drive c.

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TDK
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 03:50
If no-one is interested in this, (apart from TheComet), I'll delete the thread and create one on the WIP board at a later date.

I don't want to push it because I know a lot of you are busy on other projects and may not have time to download the file and give the feedback I requested in my earlier post.

Anyway, here's a screenie of another level in the game:



TDK_Man

Sinani201
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 05:08
Your pong won't run on my computer! Your other ones work but this new one doesn't. I'm running Vista. Does that make a difference?

Seriously, how do you make the little blue text come up below your message?
Latch
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 09:15
@TDK
I like the camera following the paddle, it's more like being in the game, but I also like having a set camera. I think you should have one more category to vote on - multiple camera views so that it can be switched at will. There should be a straight overhead view to to be like classic pong! But if there can be only one - moving
One other thing, in the reflection of the cheering stands, you should reverse the order of the letters (no big deal, it's just backwards and breaks the illusion of reflection).

TDK, what are the dimensions of the paddle relative to the court? I want to model my 3d pong to the same size.

Let's leave this thread here a little longer, there are at least a lot of people reading it.

Enjoy your day.
TDK
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 13:18
Quote: "One other thing, in the reflection of the cheering stands, you should reverse the order of the letters (no big deal, it's just backwards and breaks the illusion of reflection)."


Doh! I was hoping no-one noticed that!

Quote: "TDK, what are the dimensions of the paddle relative to the court?"


The court is 8.0 units long and 6.0 units wide. The paddles are 1.0 units wide.

Quote: "I think you should have one more category to vote on - multiple camera views so that it can be switched at will."


They are already supported to an extent. If you have the very first zip file still, try pressing the left Ctrl key during the game. I've temporary switched to using Ctrl for the camera tracking toggle but will switch back to using it for cycling though the camera angles later.

Finally, I'm now using Sparky's collision dll for the first time and the text file that comes with it mentions getCollisionBounceX(), getCollisionBounceY() and getCollisionBounceZ(), but these functions don't exist. Are they not available in the DBC version?

I downloaded it from here.

TDK_Man

Insert Name Here
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 22:38
I like the way you've created a 'tournament' feel, but I'm not so sure about the reflections. I think they kinda make it look crowded.

Quote: "Lee Bamber - Blame Beer"
-Rick

Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 22:56 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 22:59
@TDK
I haven't been posting because I'm not working on it and don't want to clog the thread up.
It looks awesome, I like the reflections, how did you do it? I assume the mirror objects are clones positioned underneath the board, and is the board itself ghosted? very clever
Is there a way to trick DB into rendering a mirror of the objects below the board without making extra objects?

Could you do a little test for me and try putting a second board in the same position as the first and ghosting it. Will that make it slightly less transparent?

How do the spectators breath?
It'd probably be a lot of work but if you want to make this a human thing then it'd be cool to have a seat on the back of the paddles where a guy is driving it, and a little transparent window for him to look through or maybe the whole thing is transparent or maybe that's another pong game

gUESS
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 23:10
Hi,
If it's still alright I would like to enter my own pong game.
The version I have attached to this post is a working and stable version but it still does not have very many features.

I plan to have it load different levels, along with particle effects depending on where the ball touches the ground, and menu (obviously), and maybe some powerups or obstacles.
I already got the multiple levels and particle system working but I am trying to make it load from a single file.

I have it attached to this post.

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Tone3e
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 01:29
guess that is a really cool looking pong. I especially liked the ball texture. I think that the paddles could look a bit better though. I think that some power ups should make the game interesting.

[center]
Come see the WIP!center]
gUESS
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 01:58
Ya, the paddles are only temporary.
One thing that is holding me back is the fact that I can't decide what I want the paddles to look like.
I was going for something like a force-field effect.
TheComet
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 13:24
@ TDK
How did you make the stars? Are they all plains randomly positioned? Because the game runs reeeeaaaally slowly on my computer.

Oooooops!!! I accidentally formated drive c.
TDK
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2008 02:01 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2008 02:06
You must have quite a slow computer because I have to slow it down on mine! What is it?

Actually I've optimised it a bit since the last version. Will be uploading the new level in a bit...

TDK_Man

gUESS
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2008 07:08
I've also downloaded it and noticed it was a little jerky and slow. I think it seems to be more the paddles than the ball that are jerky (i.e. they aren't really smooth at all when moving. Is that the way the were programmed or the speed it is running on my computer?)

Anyway, it is pretty cool. Especially with the reflective playing field and I thought having a game going on in the bakground was a nice touch.
Latch
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2008 07:15
@TDK + Comet

There's no benchmark to tell if it is actually running slow or if that is the speed of the game. It seems slow on mine but it is extremely smooth. It doesn't look like an FPS problem, maybe just the pacing at the beginning of the game.

TDK, can you include an FPS indicator so that we can compare and see what FPS it is actually running at on our respective machines? Then we'll know if it's slow or just the pace of the game.

TDK, I've had success at running an exe with the same FPS as the editor when the exe is run in windowed mode. You can find the desktop size with user32.dll and GetSystemMetrics. Set window layout 0,0,0 and maximize window to give the illusion that it is running in full screen mode so it looks the same.

Or just run it in a window with a standard resolution so the resolution isn't a factor in speed.

Enjoy your day.
TDK
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2008 10:59 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2008 11:06
OK folks - here's version 4!

It's actually level 3 - the Castle Wall level.

I've done a bit of tweaking with the settings that should have solved a few of the issues raised.

The jerkiness of the paddles has been fixed - an error on my part that. Oops...

It does start off slow - on purpose. But it gradually speeds up. Watch the CPU vs CPU match for a minute or two to see what I mean...

Latch:

I've left some of the on-screen readouts on the screen in this version - including the FPS.

I also don't get any slowdown with the build final exe. If anything it's a touch faster.

My problem is that I never get above 61 fps in any program - due I think to the refresh rate of my twin flat screen monitors.

@All:

I have discovered something I didn't know about Build Final...

If I compile as a normal exe, then the exe of Pong is 1.8MB. My media folder contains 6.4MB, so when I use Build Final it should be around 8MB right?

The current version was 34MB!!

In my project folder, I have a Store directory as well as the Media directory. Store contains all my media ready for when I need it and I copy files into the Media folder when I add them to the program.

I've discovered that Build Final includes ALL compatible files in ALL folders of the project directory - whether you have used them in your program or not!

So I moved my Store folder outside the project directory and when I used Build Final, it magically went down to 8MB!

That's why the version 4 exe is only half the size of the V3 exe - despite it having dozens more MP3's, sound effects, models and images in it.


Notes About V4:

* Only Single Player Works Still
* Switch Camera Modes With The Tab Key
* Press F2 To Use The Mouse To Control The Paddle
* Press F1 To Use Switch Back To The Keyboard
* Left Shift Takes A Screen Snapshot
* Added Another Textured Plain Beneath The Playing Area
* Fixed The Stadium Banner In The Reflection
* Un-Squashed The Crowd A Little
* Scaled The Ball Shadow When Bouncing
* Fixed The Towers Textures
* Added Guns To The Paddles For A Later Level
* Added Light To The Paddles When The Ball Hits The Laser Fence
* Fixed Most Of The 'Iffy' Collision
* Added An Impact Flash When The Ball Hits A Paddle

For those of you who are struggling to play even this optimized version because it's too slow, I'll be adding an options screen so you can knock the screen down to 16bit colour and disable the reflections.

Download: here

TDK_Man

Latch
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Posted: 24th Feb 2008 05:13 Edited at: 24th Feb 2008 05:17
@gUESS
Everytime I try to download your program it loads about half then errors out.

@TDK
It plays between 27 and 28 FPS on my machine AMD 1.5ghz. It looks fine - not jittery, plays a little faster than version 3. The sounds and movement seem to be synced up ok.

The options control did nothing.
The exit game button brings up a runtime error 66.

The mouse control doesn't move the paddle any faster. I thought the point of it was to move the paddle as fast as your could move the mouse like the old dial paddle controls.

It's pretty cool though, looks and sounds great - what should the frame rate be? 61?

Enjoy your day.
TDK
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Posted: 24th Feb 2008 06:13
Quote: "It plays between 27 and 28 FPS on my machine AMD 1.5ghz."


For a 1.5Gig Athlon (which isn't ancient, but not exactly fast these days for DX games), that's not too bad. What GFX card do you have?

When I've added the Options, you'll hopefully be able to bump that up a bit by reducing the detail.

Quote: "The exit game button brings up a runtime error 66"


So it did. Now fixed. (It helps if you don't try to stop a sound that isn't actually playing)!

Quote: "The mouse control doesn't move the paddle any faster."


That was intended. Otherwise there's a distinct advantage to using the mouse over the keyboard. Do you think that both should be faster and neither speed capped?

Quote: "what should the frame rate be? 61?"


I don't know. On my machine I get a steady 60/61 fps. I use Sync Rate 0 and use timers.

As I mentioned before, in DBC I never get more than 61 fps and I assumed it was down to the refresh rate of my flat screen monitors. Take the following snippet for example:



What do you get in DBC fps-wise? I have an Athlon64 3.5Gig with 2Gig of DDR2 memory and an nVidia GeForce 8500 GT GFX card with 512MB of memory.

I get 60fps on my machine.

Out of interest, I ran the same snippet in DBP and I get over 1000 fps, so that rules out the monitors being the cause of the problem.

TDK_Man

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