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Geek Culture / The Programs i Own

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LeeOAwesome Games
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 21:41
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Hello there

the programs i have are
FPSC
model packs 1,2,3,9
DBPro

Third party programs
Magic FPS
Milkshape
Photoshop elements

what im basically saying is there any other programs i need to be successful in modeling, texturing and making fps ready
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 21:48
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You have everything you need. There are plenty of other useful programs around though that can help you along even more. Check all the FPSC and DBP stickies.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 21:49
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My recommendation: Keep Milkshape, but learn Blender too. It's much more powerful.


TB3ITBPOMITW
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LeeOAwesome Games
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 21:58
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thanks agent dink, and thanks insert name here
but are there any third party programs i should get?
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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 22:04
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True. Blender IS more powerful, but the user interface is MUCH harder to learn. Don't let that discourage you, though. If you successfully learn blender, you'll never go back to milkshape.

...but I am the ferret king!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! tremble before my ferret minions!

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 22:06
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I have a blender render running now. Ah my wonderful armatures...


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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 22:17
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Quote: "Don't let that discourage you"


i gave up literally straight after i realised i couldn't click somewhere on a drop down box and unclick on the thing i wanted. Some people can be very picky about the interface (like myself) and the simplest thing could drive them insane.

like those weird habits some/alot of people have like being unable to stand switches left on etc.

I only bought milkshape for one thing really, and that was the amazing amount of formats it can import and export to, even if your not using it for modeling it is a brilliant i any development pipeline.

then again i think blender has loads too, i didn't really take much notice after the whole 'drop down click annoyance'.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 22:22
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OMG Jon's entered the room! <Bows>

Quote: "i realised i couldn't click somewhere on a drop down box and unclick on the thing i wanted."


Heh, just press A.

Quote: "then again i think blender has loads too, "

It does, but ironically very few of them are that useful, or at least in my experience they haven't been.

A good alternative to Milkshape for file converting is Lith Unwrap, which is free. It does UV mapping too.


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Duplex
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 22:24
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I don't particulary like programs which try and act big and try and use there own GUI instead of sticking to the nice windows (XP of course, I hate Vista)theme.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 22:27
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I think you'll find that if Blender used the XP GUI then you'd be forever clicking tabs. The Blender GUI makes it easy.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 22:50
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It'd be even easier if it had Cinema 4D's GUI...

Sorry, I'm another person who is driven crazy by Blender's GUI and isn't prepared to learn all of the keyboard short cuts, as I like to learn them casually (and to do that, I like to have a stable GUI system to use in the backgroud, EG I've been using the click menu for the bevel tool in C4D for a while, but it wasn't that long ago since I decided to start using the shortcut)

I like the interface of an app to be intuitive, so when I open a new program I can become acquianted with its features and then apply what I've learned in other 3D apps and get started (like I have with Carrara pro)

As for apps (to the thread starter): You'll find you have more or less sufficient tools (just learn them properly, rather than take short cuts, I mean a lot of people seem to think a subdivide model with a couple of extrudes looks good and will run fine in the game, when it is neither, also in-app procedural textures won't work, you have to use an image, luckily you're using Milkshape, so you can only use image textures. )

Milkshape is a good program, I'm not too fond on its modelling part, the animation and exportation are fantastic for its price, not to mention easy. But perhaps if you download Wings3D (free) you might find a modelling part to a program a bit more easier to work with.

You might need a UVMapping program too (to prepare models for your textures) and lithunwrap (free) does the job swimmingly.

Other than that, I think you have the right toolset, now you need the right mindset and knowledge (if you don't have it) to make your games.

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DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 22:52 Edited at: 6th Feb 2008 22:55
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@INH
Quote: "A good alternative to Milkshape for file converting is Lith Unwrap, which is free. It does UV mapping too."


Really I always thought it was just a file converter

@LeeOAwesome Games
Well if you try Blender the first thing you need to do is learn the hotkeys, you know how slow it would be to try and use blender without hotkeys? Very slow. Anyway if your looking for a program that is very powerfull and does not have a very compicated GUI then you should try Wings3D, in my opinion its alot easier to use if your a starting Game Development.

Edit:
Seppuku Arts beat me to it.


If it was illegal to be stupid we'd run out of room.
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Oolite
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 23:42 Edited at: 6th Feb 2008 23:43
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Quote: "Really I always thought it was just a file converter"

Clue is in the title mate (insert cheesy thumb up smiley)

Blender has a lot of power behind it and a hell of a lot of useful features, slow in a lot of areas and the UI has to be one of the sloppiest and confusing GUI's i've ever come across, but what do you expect from a free program? Its like Scarlett Johansson wants to have sex with you, only she's doesn't know what the hell she's doing and ends up fiddling around for hours before giving up and not acheiving anything at all.
Its the best you're gonna get for paying sh*te all and people should realise that, its way to easy to download any of the expensive programs and tutorials are in abundance for them, they only work really well because a team of people are paid to make them work well, not just a bunch of programmers who do the odd spot of touching up to an open source program.
If you put the time and effort into anything, you'll reap the benefits sooner or later, it just takes time and effort and you need not give up, scarlett johansson would probably get there in the end...

Just to follow suit


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AndrewT
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Posted: 6th Feb 2008 23:59 Edited at: 7th Feb 2008 00:00
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I think that if you really take about a month or so to learn your way around Blender, (most likely) you'll find that it's actually very well-designed. However, there are some people who just aren't fit for the Blender GUI; you might be one of them. But you shouldn't forget about Blender just 'cause others say the GUI is bad, you should at least try it for yourself to see if it's your kind of program. If it isn't, then you can go back to MilkShape. But trsut me; if you do find that it's right for you, you'll never use another modelling program for the base of your modelling again.
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DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 05:40
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Quote: "But trsut me; if you do find that it's right for you, you'll never use another modelling program for the base of your modelling again."


Thats just kinda like saying "If it's right for you it's right for you" Makes alot of sense(I'm serious even if it sounds like i'm not).


If it was illegal to be stupid we'd run out of room.
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 06:11
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Take 24 hours to get to know Blender's modeling tools. You won't regret it

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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Osiris
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 06:36
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Where is a good place to learn blender for someone like me who has never been able to figure out a modeling program except for making like a square, but not being able to do anything with it?

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 07:55
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http://www.blender.org/education-help/

Theres tutorials, and video tutorials right on the blender site. I watched the videos and they gave me a good jump start on Blender.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 09:15
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Quote: "Take 24 hours to get to know Blender's modeling tools. You won't regret it"


I have learned to use blender and I can model in it I just don't think it really beats Wings3D in the modeling area. Although it does beat Wings3D in rendering and animation which are pretty much non existant in Wings3D.


If it was illegal to be stupid we'd run out of room.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 10:48 Edited at: 7th Feb 2008 10:49
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Well, if you have the money to spend then a professional 3D program is really great.

IIRC 3D Studio Max and Maya works similar to Milkshape (although worlds apart). Personally I prefer Lightwave 3D which I think is more hands on and artistic. I wanna upgrade to LW9 since it can render without 3D perspective which is prefect for 2D graphics, but here I am stuck with LW8 (which I got as a free upgrade from LW7). LW has the best renderer on the market (last time I heard anyway).

A full version of the latest Photoshop is a good idea too. At least in Sweden Adobe have some great deals for full licenses for students (that can be used professionally as well). Thinking of signing up for a class some day just to buy the whole CS package. Illustrator doesn't hurt once you have learnt it, really useful too.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 11:04
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DA is right about the pro-packages, though they are a lot of money for the hobbyist, hence your toolset is adequate for making games - the more expensive ones are just more professional and feature packed.

On that note, be careful with packages like Cinema 4D and Carrara for game-making, Carrara isn't good for exportation, and Cinema 4D's default .x exporter isn't good (but you can download xport, a plugin that's a far superior .x exporter) but again, they're expensive in comparison too.

Lightwave I think is fantastic for game export and animation, plus it's easy, I've played around with LW 9 (trial and PLE) and I found it exported beautifully into the .x format.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 11:25
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I've got Dreamweaver CS3 (legal), Photoshop 7 (legal), Maya 8 (student), Blender (legal!!!) Darkbasic Classic (birthday present)... Notepad, too.


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 11:58 Edited at: 7th Feb 2008 11:59
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Seppuku:
Ah, I did not know that LW9 have native .x export. Now I really want to upgrade.



Another really great feature in LW (since v8) is that you can "bake" textures. Take your model, use whatever material settings you like, load it up in Layout and set up the the lights, now bake it and you get an UV-map that have all the materials and lights baked into it. You can use a high detail model and then apply the texture onto a low detail one. Well, I guess it was more useful when 3D hardware could not do what it can do now. Don't know if v9 can do more interesting things in terms of textures.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 12:34 Edited at: 7th Feb 2008 12:36
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Wow, Newtek Europe have really fast support. I just installed LW8 and contacted them through email about my change of address and email and asked about free updates for LW and problems registering my free license of UV Edit Pro that I received 4 years ago.

It took them less then 40 minutes to change my registration info and get me a link to the free 8.5 upgrade and ask me about my UV Edit Pro serial number

BTW, they are really great at sending out free upgrades and UV Edit Pro (3rd party plugin) was worth around €100 back in 2004 and they gave it for free to all 7.X users before the launch of 8.0 You often get some great deal when buying as well. I got 10 training DVDs when I bought LW7 so many years ago.

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Keo C
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 15:55
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Quote: "Blender (legal!!!)"

I would llike to see an illegal version.


Image made by the overworked Biggadd.
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RalphY
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 16:25
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The Blender interface is getting a complete overhaul in the current update anyway from what I understand. It will still look pretty much the same but will be much easier for people to make custom GUIs for it, so it wont be to long before you see a 3D Max rip-off version of the interface (actually I think there might already be one).

Personally I never had any trouble with Blenders GUI, might just be because it was the first modelling app I used though.

Oh boy! Sleep! That's when I'm a Viking! | Super Nintendo Chalmers!
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 16:40 Edited at: 7th Feb 2008 16:41
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Quote: "Seppuku:
Ah, I did not know that LW9 have native .x export. Now I really want to upgrade."


I dunno if it is native, I did try it out a while back, so I may have picked up a free exporter, but either way the export was pretty flawless (though I didn't test it on animations) - if you want to ask any questions about the LW 9 upgrade KeithC might be a guy you want to talk to, he runs his owns forums with a PM service, look for a post by him and his sig should link you. (Black Draco Games)



As Rami's post his tools, it might help if I post up my tools, and because and explain what I do with them and how I work them.

Carrara 5 Pro (I lost my Cinema 4D 6 Key, so I managed to get carrara, I would have reknewed it, but I was fed up with ancient software) - I use this for rendering and scene building
Hexagon 2.2 - I use this for modelling and organic UV Mapping
Silo 2 - I use this for organic modelling
Lithunwrap - I use this for pre-set UV Mapping
Milkshape3D - I use this for animation and game export
Photoshop 6 - I used to have this installed, but my computer is here at my flat in Derby, and the proogram is at my main home in Cambridgeshire - so instead I am using Paint.Net for texturing and Carrara 5 procedurals (which conveniently can export as images - though I've not tried that feature yet)
Dark Basic Pro - Game Programming
Torque Game Engine 1.4- For whenever I decide to try any multi-platform game making

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5Louiz
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 16:48 Edited at: 7th Feb 2008 16:55
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Quote: "Quote: "Blender (legal!!!)"
I would llike to see an illegal version."


Keo, he probably was refering to the legal usage of a great program. Probably because piracy of 3D Max, Maya and other great ones happen very often. Or he was saying "cool!!!" in Portuguese. In both cases, I do agree. Blender é legal!!

Edit:
Let me post what I use too:

Blender: Model, UV Map, body paint, sculpt, animation, rendering, simple video editing.
OGRE: Rendering.
Newton game dynamics: Physics. I use it through Walaber's OgreNewt wrapper.
OpenAL: Audio library.
TinyXML: XML parser.
GIMP: Image editor.

And some smaller utilities, of course.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 17:07
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My toolset includes:

Blender, Photoshop CS3, Paint Shop Pro X (but since I got Photoshop I don't have much need for it), InkScape (free), PSPad (free again!), Ultimate Unwrap, 3d World Studio, FPSC, DBPro, Audacity, Open Office, and yes, of course, notepad

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 17:33
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Quote: "Or he was saying "cool!!!" in Portuguese."


How unfortunate, your word for cool being 'legal'...in English to say that something 'legal' is cool would be ironic.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 17:51
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Quote: "the GUI has to be one of the sloppiest and confusing GUI's i've ever come across"


I felt I just had to correct this: Blender's GUI appears sloppy, but it's actually very easy to use and well organized, it's juts a little complicated to begin with.


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5Louiz
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 19:03
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Quote: "How unfortunate, your word for cool being 'legal'...in English to say that something 'legal' is cool would be ironic."


lol. In Portuguese, "legal" is a slang when it means "cool", because it actually means the same as in English. The slang was probably created by a distinct person. Every time an opportunity appeared, the first question was "is it legal?". So "legal" became a permanent "thumb up" signal and, of course, a linguistic subversion.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 19:18
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I suppose having 'legal' mean cool is no stranger than having 'cool' mean good. I mean, cool?


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 19:19
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Oh interesting, hmm might try to employ it into my own slang and see how it catches on.

TGC is the most illegal place I've been to on the internet...something like that right?

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 19:45
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...? How dare you suggest that TGC is uncool... lukewarm?


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 20:39
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Well I was being ironic! Duh! Of course it's lukewarm...

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 20:46
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If something is not cool, is it warm? That's the same logic as gay people saying 'That's sooo straight.'


<Why on earth did that just cross my mind?>


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 20:57
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Hmm...'That's sooooo straight' might be something cool for them to say, I mean I'm sure they don't like the idea of people saying 'that's sooooo gay' when they're talking about bad things.

But, I'm keeping Legal and Illegal for my good and bad phrases.

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Keo C
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 21:10
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Quote: "<Why on earth did that just cross my mind?>"

Hmmmmm.


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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 7th Feb 2008 21:50
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Don't you go getting any ideas!


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Keo C
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 01:43
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Too late.


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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 8th Feb 2008 12:26 Edited at: 8th Feb 2008 12:26
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Seppuku:
The models and animations in The Magic Land was made in LW7, exported with a free .x plugin

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