Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / PS3 is selling better then PS2 and 360

Author
Message
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 20th Feb 2008 15:52
LOL, 16.4%!

My 360, my sons, my brothers, a friend from work, all 3-ringed in the last 6 months. Out of the 7 or 8 people I know with a 360, half them have had this problem. I'm still waiting on the shipping box for my other 360, I actually bought a replacement and plan to sell on the reconditioned one. I even know someone who's 360 is suffering real bad wireless connections with the new motherboard, so that's got to go back again.

M$ should ship a cake back with your 360 by means of an apology, or some free points, we're too busy being grateful for them fixing the problem so reasonably efficiently - let's stick it to them like they do to us!.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 20th Feb 2008 15:55
Quote: "The Xbox 360 has a 16.4% failure rate"

Is that the figures from a third party warranty company though, or did they cover all of the 360 warranties?


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 20th Feb 2008 17:36
Quote: "Thats because there isn't a FREE alternative which is as good. The same cannot be said for 'Live'"


Cool, what's this free Live alternative that is as good as Live? I'd love to know.


Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 20th Feb 2008 18:01
Quote: "Cool, what's this free Live alternative that is as good as Live? I'd love to know."

PSN, of course!


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
Zombie 20
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Nov 2006
Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 20th Feb 2008 20:44
sigh..i'm quite happy with wi-fi and friend codes personally, but hey I'm just a simpleton I suppose, no hassle, no fees, just me and my buds racing mario kart.


Coffee coffee coffee coffee coffee coffee cappacino, JAVA!
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 20th Feb 2008 21:28
Quote: "PSN, of course!"


Oh sweet, and could you enlighten me on how it's as good as Live? Myself and thousands of gamers who think otherwise would love to know


Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 02:08
Jeku, thats what most of this thread has been about. Keep up! Its all in the posts.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 02:23
I've re-read the posts, which is why I'm asking So far you are the only one in this thread that I can see that says the PSN service is equal to the Live service, so I'm honestly confused. Like I said, I haven't even heard that from pro-Sony blogs and journalists


Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 12:25
Well, to recap - just for you - PSN is free and does almost everything that Live can do. The only things mentioned on here which PSN does not yet do is the access to instant chat while inside games (invites) and achievements. The update to access the XMB in-game is now completed and will be rolled out shortly which will look after the friends list access and voice, text and video chat. Home will add its version of achievements when it comes out in a few months (hopefully). Personally I don't consider achievements an important feature as its really just for bragging, although you will apparently be able to unlock special extras by achieving certain goals. There isn't really anything else missing. On the plus side, PSN is much less restricted in download sizes (compared to Live Arcade) and allows developers much more freedom to deliver content themselves such as user generated stuff - download and upload. Home will of course add a huge social networking part to PSN which Live doesn't have... yet.
Did I mention PSN is free?

On a side note, PSN appears to support more simultaneous users in online games too. Whether this is just down to the games themselves I don't know, but most Live games seem to support a maximum of 16 players. Just as an example, the first "Resistance:FoM" on the PS3 supports 40 person online multiplayer matches and the new "Resistance 2" game supports 60 players at once! Nothing on Live seems to come close to that and seeing as I am sure the machine is capable I can only put that down to a restriction on Live. If anyone knows more about this I would be interested to hear.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 12:40
Zappo:
Are the Resistance games played on PSN servers and how is the support on other titles? What have been the major difference between 360 and PSN is the online play capabilities where 360 offers online play on all (?) games while PS3 games where required to host their own servers. It's worth paying for good servers for all games as long as there's no free substitute that works on all games.

[center]
Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 13:41
Well, I believe that PSN users log in to a central system ('PSN') hosted by Sony when they login. This looks after the "who's online" type system for your friends list etc. BUT when you run an online game it connects to the developers servers for that game. The developers then choose how to host the games themselves, which in most cases means having servers in various world regions to make ping times quicker and help spread the load. This way the work is much more distributed and the network is more resilient than relying on a central server and a single point of failure. If one server goes down, it doesn't take out all PS3 online gaming. In most cases the worst that will happen is that you cannot connect to your regions server for that one game, so you either pick another regions server (if it doesn't automatically fail over) or play a different online game which will be unaffected. Just out of interest, I have not experienced any downtime on any of the PS3 games I have played yet.

The flexibility and freedom of letting developers design and look after their own online systems (if they wish) allows for such things as the uploading of user designed levels for games like LittleBigPlanet, and their own custom P2P type gaming systems if they want to develop them.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
Kentaree
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2002
Location: Clonmel, Ireland
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 14:05
Quote: "If one server goes down, it doesn't take out all PS3 online gaming"


Quote: "Well, I believe that PSN users log in to a central system ('PSN') hosted by Sony when they login"


Kind of contradicting yourself there I think. I would believe XBox Live would have something similar, the login servers would be separate from the gaming servers, and I sincerely doubt they're all in the same place, because then people all over the world (apart from where the servers would be based) would be complaining about ping times. The only thing I can agree with from your last post is that it *might* give developers more flexibility, I don't know how much freedom microsoft gives developers.

Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 14:22 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 14:32
Quote: "Kind of contradicting yourself there I think"

Not at all. If a gaming server goes down it doesn't take out all online gaming from all developers. The central part of PSN will be much less stressed as it doesn't look after any of the games and is therefore less likely to go down. There is no reason why this can't be regionized too (I may have just made that word up ) and fall back to other regions in the event of connection problems.
(Edit:I should make it clear that I don't know for sure if this is how they do it, but it should be.)
The Xbox Live system does work differently as all the recent downtime demonstrated. People were able to login but could not play any online games at all.
Quote: "The only thing I can agree with.."

So you don't agree that load sharing and distributed computing makes for a more reliable system?


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
Kentaree
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2002
Location: Clonmel, Ireland
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 14:39
Quote: "So you don't agree that load sharing and distributed computing makes for a more reliable system?"


Of course I do, but that wasn't the point. The recent XBox live downtime didn't affect everyone, which shows there's at least some level of distribution there, as well as the fact that it's practically impossible to have 1000s of users play different games on the same server anyway, so distribution doesn't only become a good idea, it become a necessity. As to why XBox live went down I don't know, there was obviously a single point of failure somewhere like a faulty router or whatever, but it was definitely not one single game server that 1000s of people play games on.

Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 15:04 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 15:07
Of course everyone doesn't play on the same server on Live, but having all online gaming as well as logging on and purchasing games etc. on the same system (and by 'system' I mean connected together under the one big MS umbrella) then you are less resilient than having each game looked after by different servers, on different networks by different companies. Its the same reason why professional companies who rely on Internet access usually have secondary connections using a different ISP and different cabling where possible. Less chance of one fault breaking everything.
That was the point I was trying to make.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 15:31 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 15:33
If people are paying for server access and it's handled by a single company then not only do you get servers for all games but they will in the long run have better service and maintenance because it can be built up over time. A XBL or PSN server network can be created as flexible and resilient as money can buy, as long as money is coming in it can be improved.

There's nothing saying that having PSN servers would ban developer made servers for uploading content, or that Sony couldn't provide for that as well (which I think they should). The whole idea of a paid for service is that you get more out of it, like I know that the games I buy have online servers and that any problem will be fixed ASAP.

Server maintenance and Internet access costs money. If the developer or publisher is to pay for this then they have to cut costs elsewhere, like shortening production time (less levels/content) or charging more for their games. They also need to make their own system which requires programming and will most likely come with bugs. If Sony handles it the developers have less to worry about.

[center]
Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 16:54
Quote: "like I know that the games I buy have online servers and that any problem will be fixed ASAP"

Well, if games companies want you to continue to buy their products they will fix any online problems pretty quickly. News of unreliable online play spreads like wildfire and does a lot of damage to sales. Like I have said before, paying for a system sadly does not make it more reliable - as has been proved.
Quote: "Server maintenance and Internet access costs money. If the developer or publisher is to pay for this then they have to cut costs elsewhere, like shortening production time (less levels/content) or charging more for their games."

Not necessarily, and hosting their own servers can mean much more functionality than Microsoft allows. Once the system is set up and working there is probably little cost in maintenance. Games servers will be under most stress while the game is new, once that period has passed they will have less work to do and so require less maintenance. High bandwidth for most companies is there already and besides, most games should be using a peer-2-peer type system now (e.g. Call of Duty 4) so the server would only be used for things like finding games and storing ratings/scores.
Quote: "They also need to make their own system which requires programming and will most likely come with bugs. If Sony handles it the developers have less to worry about."

I would hope that any developer who is not capable of writing and testing their own online system would just use a pre-existing library to do the job. Online play is such is an important part of modern gaming I am sure there are buckets of premade systems available. I would expect there to be some libraries supplied with the SDK as it certainly contains some Network Platform (NP) utilities for things like accessing and editing your friends list from within games.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
jasonhtml
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Mar 2004
Location: OC, California, USA
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 16:56
Quote: "M$ should ship a cake back with your 360 by means of an apology, or some free points, we're too busy being grateful for them fixing the problem so reasonably efficiently - let's stick it to them like they do to us!."


i got a free 1 month subscription card when they returned my xbox for the 2nd time

Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 21st Feb 2008 18:09 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 18:13
Quote: "Well, to recap - just for you - PSN is free and does almost everything that Live can do."


Okay, now you say almost. Which one is it?

Quote: "The update to access the XMB in-game is now completed and will be rolled out shortly which will look after the friends list access and voice, text and video chat."


I'd love to read about that if you have a link. Did somebody already post it? I haven't heard about this yet, and I subscribe to the official PlayStation RSS feed.

Quote: "Personally I don't consider achievements an important feature as its really just for bragging"


Well, like I said, most video game journalists would disagree with you on that. I don't know how many times I've read or listened to the guys on IGN, Gamespot and 1UP talk about being achievement and gamerscore addicts. I'm like you and don't really care, but I still will get the 360 version of a game over the PS3 because the performance is usually higher and you have a centralized achievement system.

You forget, achievements are for ALL 360 USERS. This is not a pay-for thing.

Quote: "although you will apparently be able to unlock special extras by achieving certain goals."


Hmm, hardly new. You're familiar with unlockables, right?

Quote: "There isn't really anything else missing."


Let's see: 1- the amount of demos, i.e. there isn't a playable demo for *every* single PSN game, as there is on the 360. That's a little ridiculous on Sony's part as more people are likely to buy the product if they can play it first.

I was just reading an interesting article on the complaint that the PSN demo and game updates are few and far between. I believe the additional content is equal to the 360s, so at least it's something.

2- download speed is atrocious. I've already said this, no need to reiterate.

3- want to simultaneously download something while watching a movie? Too bad. Oh, and if you turn off your PS3 then go back to your DVD or BD, forget about automatically going back to where you where. There's no automatic bookmarking system. On the 360 you can even take the DVD out of the drive, put it back in and it remembers.

4- lack of players on PSN. You mentioned having 40 players in Resistance. What's the point when there aren't more than 40 players playing at the same time anyway?

5- installing all the games after downloading. Argh, annoying. This is not due to a smaller download size, either. You'd think the games would be compressed, but I have never found a game that was under 300MB on PSN. The largest 360 XBLA game I downloaded was 191MB, and didn't need an install. The download sizes for games that are on *both* PSN and 360 have larger downloads for PSN, and require an install. Why!?!?

And again, all 360 owners can download these games. It's not subscription based.

6- finally, who can forget XNA? This was just opened up on Xbox Live. Anyone can get the XNA Game Launcher right now and play free indie games, made by free professional industry tools like Visual Studio.

These are available for anyone to play, regardless of paying.

Quote: "On the plus side, PSN is much less restricted in download sizes (compared to Live Arcade)"


This is false. As far as I know the max size was 64MB over a year ago. They've lifted that restriction when Castlevania SOTN was released on XBLA.

Quote: "and allows developers much more freedom to deliver content themselves such as user generated stuff - download and upload."


Source link? Again, you must not have much experience with Live as many of the games offer community levels, etc.

Quote: "Home will of course add a huge social networking part to PSN which Live doesn't have... yet."


Well you can't really call Home part of PSN, can you? It's a downloadable program like any other PSN game. Also, Sony have said they will be charging microtransactions for any sort of customization for the player. Hmm...

Quote: "Did I mention PSN is free?"


Well you've seen from my list that there's a reason why it's free Like I've said before, once Sony's PSN network catches up with Live's (if ever), I guarantee it will not be free, or it will be a tiered-system like Live. The PS3 put Sony in a lot of trouble financially, and they are responsible to their shareholders like any other public company, and will remove unprofitable things if necessary.

Well, you haven't convinced me about this:
Quote: "free alternative which is as good as Live."



Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 00:03
Quote: "Okay, now you say almost. Which one is it?"
That doesn't make any sense. It does almost everything Live does, and is better because its free and more flexible IMO. Which one is what?
Quote: "I'd love to read about that if you have a link."
There have been hints over the last day or so:
http://www.dbtechno.com/gaming/2008/02/20/sony-drops-more-hints-of-in-game-ps3-xmb/
There was confirmation posted on the official Sony Playstation site which was obviously released too early and has since been removed. I take that as confirmation that its done but awaiting an official release. There is some brief info here:
http://kotaku.com/356238/playstationcom-shows-then-pulls-new-ps3-network-features
and here:
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/14/in-game-messaging-for-ps3-spotted-on-official-site/
Quote: "Hmm, hardly new. You're familiar with unlockables, right?"

Of course, but these extras can be things like furniture for your virtual Home. They make it look nice but they don't really serve a purpose apart from the 'look at my apartment' brag value.
Quote: "but I still will get the 360 version of a game over the PS3 because the performance is usually higher and you have a centralized achievement system"

Home will provide a centralised achievement system too, and the performance thing is debatable and dependant upon the game.
Quote: "1- the amount of demos,... complaint that the PSN demo and game updates are few and far between."
There are updates to the PSN Store every week but I don't pay attention to the stuff on Live so I can't say how that compares. Are there really demo's for EVERY 360 game on there? That would be quite impressive.
Quote: "3- want to simultaneously download something while watching a movie? Too bad."
Okay, that's not possible right now but you can carry on downloading while doing anything else. You can view videos as they download (streaming) and don't have to wait till its finished. I don't want to get into a feature debate about the console itself but if I did I would have to bring up that you can download files from the Web on the PS3. These can be any type of file, for example UT3 levels from fan sites. My own site has several PS3 themes I have created (using Sony's tools) which can be downloaded and installed right from within the Web browser.
Quote: "4- lack of players on PSN"

Nice try. Not true.
Quote: "5- installing all the games after downloading."
Its one extra click and a couple of minutes at most. Time must be very precious to anyone who complains about that.
Quote: "And again, all 360 owners can download these games."
Even those with a Core console?
Quote: "6- finally, who can forget XNA?"
Yes, XNA is a great feature. Of course, the PS3 can be booted to another OS such as Linux so you can write and compile your own software there (it supports Open GL ES) and there are plenty of free Linux development tools to choose from - you aren't stuck with one. This can actually be done on the console too with a cheap USB keyboard and mouse. I expect some nice free SDKs for the PS3 in the future from the OpenSource community, but at the moment it is a bit more tricky than XNA.
I know playing other peoples XNA games has been opened up now, but does this mean you can write stuff yourself and play it on your 360 without paying the £100 a year for an XNA account? That would be cool but I see no mention of it from the recent announcement.
Quote: "This is false. As far as I know the max size was 64MB over a year ago."
It was 64MB, now its 150MB if I remember correctly. It was upped but there is still a limit.
Quote: "Source link?"
You need a source link to show that developers look after their own gaming servers on the PS3? Its pretty easy to find - just Google.
Quote: "Well you can't really call Home part of PSN, can you?"
Yes you can. Its where you will view your own and other peoples achievements, meet other people and start multiplayer games or chat. I see it as a place where the majority of 'out of game' time will take place and so will become an integral part of PSN. It is free and you need never spend any money if you don't want to, unless you want to buy new things for your virtual Home. Perhaps they will open up an online virtual Ikea?!
Quote: "The PS3 put Sony in a lot of trouble financially, and they are responsible to their shareholders like any other public company, and will remove unprofitable things if necessary."
But surely you have seen the news of the recent increase in hardware sales (beating Xbox 360 sales last month) and that the PS3 games division is in profit. With reduced production costs they expect the hardware side to be in profit in the next fiscal year too, and that was predicted before HD-DVD took a nose dive. Its all looking good from here.
Quote: "Well, you haven't convinced me about this:
Quote: "free alternative which is as good as Live.""
No surprise there I think your mind was made up long ago.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 00:08
Quote: "This is false. As far as I know the max size was 64MB over a year ago. They've lifted that restriction when Castlevania SOTN was released on XBLA."


This isn't to say anything against what he said being false, but XBLA title originally could only be 58MB in size.
It was extended to 150MB back in March 2007 to coincide with the new 128/256/512MB Memory Unit releases.

The reason for this was entirely so that people who only had the Core (now Arcade) could still download any of the titles on Memory Units alone; given purcahses are download locked to the Unit it is downloaded to unless you have attached the purchasers Live account to that given peice of hardware.

Microsoft have since lifted the restrictions to 480MB for XBLA.

This said this is ONLY for Live Arcade titles, and not titles released across the rest of Live Marketplace. So the original comparison between the whole of PSN (which has no "Arcade" section as such, specifically aimed at small fun arcade titles) against XBLA is a bit silly on the whole.

Quote: "Its not the normal downloadable content I am referring to. Its the fact that for some reason MS won't allow Epic to let people download user generated content, i.e. the user made levels for UT3. Its definitely not Epic's fault as they have done this for the PS3 without any hassle at all - in fact Sony welcomed it. After all, the more free content you can provide, the more games and consoles will be sold and the more players will be online. Everybody wins.
Epic also released the utilities to convert user created UT3 maps to the PS3 format for free and you can stick them on a USB memory stick to play them on your console. I would say they are going out of their way to try and make it easy for the players."


Unreal Tournament 3 has yet to be released for the Xbox 360, and I have no idea behind the reasoning to why this is. I highly doubt you do either though; and I'd further doubt this is due to "Microsoft's restrictions on user created content"

You are entirely free to share Microsoft XNA titles with anyone who has an XNA Creator Club account; which will be free in the coming months. Halo 3 also has a HUGE community based upon sharing screenshots, movies and levels created with Forge.

Although you're limited without subscription to Bungie (NOT MICROSOFT) on how much space you have to share with people, there is no limitation on how much you can store on your own HDD.

Forza Motorsport 2 and Need for Speed ProStreet both have just mind-blowingly large online communities for sharing car designs; which can be up to 100MB EACH in size depending on the complexity of the upgrades and paint-job. As well as unlimited screenshots and movies you can share over Live and from the Forza 2 website itself.

Quite frankly, you say there are limitations and Microsoft are deliberately trying to stop user-content; if anything they're going the opposite route. Personally I do hope they introduce an approval system to XNA titles when they add the sharing system on Live Marketplace itself, because I like the idea of not downloading buggy pieces of crap with zero quality to them.

Quote: "I would hope that any developer who is not capable of writing and testing their own online system would just use a pre-existing library to do the job. Online play is such is an important part of modern gaming I am sure there are buckets of premade systems available. I would expect there to be some libraries supplied with the SDK as it certainly contains some Network Platform (NP) utilities for things like accessing and editing your friends list from within games."


Xbox 360 Software Development Kit and XNA both have built-in libraries for networking along with helper libraries so that you don't have to recode network stuff from scratch.

All of which can be use with Xbox Live features if you choose, but it is not required; the SDKs themselves will provide the guide support as standard without doing anything, if you choose though you can alter how the guide is accessed and what additional options you'd like to have.

That is all built-in support, not something each developer has to make themselves like they do currently on the Playstation 3. With a standardisation this also means that less issues will arise from game to game doing the same tasks. Leaving developers to actually concentrate more on the actual multiplayer aspect of the game than features games expect.

If a developer runs out of time, atleast on the 360 those features are all there as standard... on the Playstation 3 they will often opt to drop them as "non-essential".

Quote: "Personally I don't consider achievements an important feature as its really just for bragging"


Prior to playing games with achievements I would've said you're right, but I've found myself over time becoming more and more in to the whole achievement stuff.

I won't say it's not about being able to brag a little, but they actually make games more fun and interesting really. Especially games like Portal for example (which btw I only have on Steam, but they now have achievements), where you can complete it within an hour; but the Valve guys setup the Achievements basically like a system of "Try and pull this one off!" stuff.

After completing the game I took another 6 or so hours trying to get the achievement to destroy all 30 cameras in the game. Some of their achievements are extremely fun to try and get... it's like on Episode 2 there is another to killing a hunter with it's own weaponry; which I would've never thought of if there wasn't an achievement.

On Steam they're certainly not for bragging rights as you can't even see what others have in them yet. It's more about personal satisfaction, and things to attempt once you've completed something and might become bored running through the same story again. After playing games with achievements for a while you certainly miss not having something to aim for.

I mean before I'd just try to complete a game. Now I have little landmarks, even for the next time through the game.

Quote: "Well, you haven't convinced me about this:
[quote]free alternative which is as good as Live."
[/quote]

Steam for Windows, is an excellent free replacement.

You have friends, messages, community groups, an online store, achievements, ability to swap between any game installed without the need for ANY discs if it's bought through Steam.

You can install digital backups of physical games sold over Steam.
Download performance can vary but generally good, and will background anything.

Most games come with free tools and SDKs for modifications, which also will appear and run through Steam. It's compatible with ANY installed game, even if it's not on Steam; and you can use it's friends features by simply adding it to the list and running via Steam itself.

Steam is on-par with Live, and is free. However it is only on-par as both systems still have their downsides.
Steam is better at somethings, Live is better at others. Both have a few features the others don't just yet; but they kinda compliment the features they lack.

Something I do like about Steam though is Games for Windows will ALSO run while it is active. So you can have both systems running.
For example I have Universe At War on Steam, and while talking to my Steam friends; I can also talk to those on Xbox Live as well as use the Live or Steam services for Servers plus earn Achievements on both.

I see a few games in the future doing this when published via Steam.

Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 00:26
Quote: "Its one extra click and a couple of minutes at most. Time must be very precious to anyone who complains about that."


When you work 10-12hours a day, then you can tell people that a few extra minutes isn't much. Time is a precious thing, especially if you have to leave something download overnight not being able to do anything else on the console until it's finished because network performance is so damn bad half most of the time.

There might be 6million PSN users, but they're certainly as hell aren't playing games; but wasting bloody bandwidth.

Quote: "Home will provide a centralised achievement system too, and the performance thing is debatable and dependant upon the game."


You say Achievements are about bragging rights, but most Playstation owners I know do nothing but brag... and to a ridiculous degree.

"Oh I completed GTA San Andreas in a night!"

No word of a lie, that is what I've heard from a couple; both myself and my mate are bloody amazing at that game and it still takes us about 15hours to complete it; cause it's so sodding huge.

But then you have HOME where, achievements are not achievements they're TROPHEYS; honest to god virtual sodding trophey cases. Where you can literally take your friend in and go "look at how awesome I am"... on Live all you do is compare while chatting sometimes has nothing to do with "dude look at how godly I am" but a case of a simple comparison just to see what you or your mate has over you.

We also don't know what form these "tropheys" will come in. Still to me that's one more thing that just really adds to the whole friendless loner culture of the PS3; because can tell you this much, I always hated those jocks at school who felt tropheys were something godly to work towards and just had to show them off. In-fact despite having quite a few myself, you ever come round my home you'll NEVER see any on display; as just because I'm good at something doesn't mean I feel everyone should have their face rubbed in that fact.

Alright so the 360 isn't as visual about it all, but tbh I quite like it being more low key. Home is just going to be like MTV Cribs or Second Life; people thinking they're all "gansta" or shut-ins .. if you've ever seen youtube or talked to half the people who are hyped about the PS3, frankly they're almost always sodding "gansta", "chavs" or some sad loner guy who likes to play final fantasy alone in his bedroom.

Hell my brother really used to fall in to that 3rd catagory until he moved back in with me. Devoute PS2 guy too, but certainly isn't any more. Here we have a PS2, PS3, GC, Wii and 360... the 360 is only ever off when we're both out.

PS3 hasn't been used in almost 2months now, and despite the PS3 we have running PS2 games; he still uses his PS2 Slim to play stuff like FFXII, Splinter Cell Online, Killzone Online, etc.

To me it's quite ironic the PS2 STILL seems to have a much larger community for online gaming but is realistically fairly dead.

Quote: "Even those with a Core console?"


Core and Arcade have always come with Memory Units.
You can also use USB Hard Drives, or purchase an Xbox Hard Disk Drive unit... unlike the Playstation 3 you're not limited to the storage that comes with it without extremely small space, and extremely expensive SD Cards; which is only supported on the larger units anyway.

You know what I like about the 360, is no matter what version you purchase inside it's the exact same console with the ability to upgrade anything it lacks over the other packages.

With the Playstation 3, the package you buy well until recently as they now ONLY sell the 40GB version; changed on what was supported between them. Couldn't change the HDD without voiding the warrenty either.

Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 01:11
Zappo:
One thing can be said. PSN doesn't offer the exact same features of XBL (yet) so it's not as good as XBL. It's free and thus one can argue what is the better, which probably is an individual opinion. If at a point in time PSN and XBL can be compared to offer similar services and PSN remains free then there's no doubt it would be the better choice. Do not say that they are similar now because you personally do not think XBL offers anything more then PSN. Facts and personal opinions has to be kept separate. You do not consider the XBL Gold services to be worth paying for but many others do.

[center]
Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 01:18
Raven, most of your post is opinion so I won't comment on that. I have no problem at all with your opinions. But...
Quote: "Time is a precious thing, especially if you have to leave something download overnight not being able to do anything else on the console until it's finished because network performance is so damn bad half most of the time."

Why can't you do anything else? The console has no problems downloading stuff in the background while you play games, browse the Web, chat, listen to music or watch downloaded videos. If the network is as slow for you as you make out then its obviously not using up much resources, is it?
Quote: "unlike the Playstation 3 you're not limited to the storage that comes with it without extremely small space, and extremely expensive SD Cards; which is only supported on the larger units anyway."

Not true at all. All PS3s support USB mass storage devices, so you can use USB memory sticks, USB hard disks, MP3 players, even my mobile phone works as a storage device! Besides, if you do have a PS3 with memory card slots and choose to use SD cards, they aren't expensive at all - 4GB for under £10.
Quote: "Couldn't change the HDD without voiding the warrenty either."

I don't think this is true either. The official Sony Playstation Blog has said that they don't mind people upgrading the hard disk themselves and even link to a CNET tutorial showing you how to do it. Its very simple as you can use pretty much any 2.5inch SATA drive (just like those in notebook PCs) and it sits in a slideout caddy. You stick in a new drive, turn it on and the PS3 will prep the drive for you. Easy.
The PS3 also has the built-in 'backup' feature to copy off your purchased games etc. onto USB storage so you don't need to download them again.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 01:29 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2008 01:42
Digital Awakening, I agree completely that its personal opinion as to which people consider is better. I already stated that PSN doesn't currently have some of the features that XBL has, and that what I consider to be the important ones are coming soon. Personally I still think in its current state, the way it works and the fact that PSN is free makes it preferable, but I know there are many people who think differently. I just hope they realise that my view is also valid and shared by many others.

EDIT: I just wanted to add this pretty cool link I just came across. Its from the Official Playstation Blog and shows the server setup for "Warhawk". This is a Sony game so they look after the gaming servers themselves, but the way they have written the server side software means that it actually runs on PS3s so users can easily host their own games in a method they call IGS. Its all described better in the posting. The important bit is that they use rack mounted PS3s to host games - and boy, do they have a few of them! Check out the pictures at the bottom of the blog entry:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/08/08/behind-the-curtain-the-warhawk-servers/


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 02:36
Quote: "Quote: "Okay, now you say almost. Which one is it?"
That doesn't make any sense. It does almost everything Live does, and is better because its free and more flexible IMO. Which one is what?"


Argh, so many quotes hehe.

Basically when you said this:

Quote: ""free alternative which is as good as Live.""


You said the PSN network is as good. Now you say it does almost everything Live does. I just wanted to point out the discrepancy in your statements. Not a big deal.

Quote: "and the performance thing is debatable and dependant upon the game."


I've played and read reviews on tons of PS3 games, and the only one that I can recall that had slightly better performance than 360 was Burnout Paradise. Many others have half the framerate and other graphical weirdness. I realize this isn't due to PS3s power, and has more to do with developer laziness (and desire to get the ports done quickly), but it's still worth mentioning.

Quote: "Are there really demo's for EVERY 360 game on there? That would be quite impressive."


There are demos for every XBLA game, yes. I've bought a few PSN games and have been happy with most, but sometimes I'd like to play a demo first. I believe MS forces developers to make demos for all XBLA games, which can be unlocked in about 3 seconds as you don't have to re-download content.

Quote: "Of course, the PS3 can be booted to another OS such as Linux so you can write and compile your own software there (it supports Open GL ES) and there are plenty of free Linux development tools to choose from - you aren't stuck with one."


Hehe, I've heard this same rebuttal from the small army of PS3 owners at work. The only thing they've done so far with their PS3 linux is run a webserver I have yet to see decent PS3 game libraries from Sony--- are there any? Using the PS3 as a PC and making an OpenGL game is hardly worth mentioning. XNA is a suite of tools made and supported by MS for cross-platform game development (Windows and 360). It's seamless, and so easy to get a 3D rotating cube on my TV

As an aside, I'm quite looking forward to Home when it comes out. I am a recovering Second Life addict after all


Krilik
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Mar 2006
Location: Arizona, USA
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 02:49
Quote: "When you work 10-12hours a day, then you can tell people that a few extra minutes isn't much. Time is a precious thing, especially if you have to leave something download overnight not being able to do anything else on the console until it's finished because network performance is so damn bad half most of the time.
"


When you work 10-12 hours days your downloads will be done when you get home. Take 2 minutes to install them.

Quote: "There might be 6million PSN users, but they're certainly as hell aren't playing games; but wasting bloody bandwidth.
"


It also depends on how many people buy the game... I would bet the number online of players relative to the number of copies sold is about the same for ALL consoles.

Quote: "You say Achievements are about bragging rights, but most Playstation owners I know do nothing but brag... and to a ridiculous degree"


*looks at Raven's signature gamerscore*
Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 03:01
Quote: "The only thing they've done so far with their PS3 linux is run a webserver I have yet to see decent PS3 game libraries from Sony--- are there any?"

There is the official SDK but its megabucks - about the same price apparently as the 360 SDK now. Shame really. I do expect there to be OpenSource libraries and stuff coming out especially for the PS3 but I have no idea when. I am sure there are libraries for Open GL in Linux to make life easier but I haven't looked into it indepth yet. I think the IBM Cell SDK is free to download but I expect most people are still writing stuff to run in standard 'PowerPC' mode (which the Cell will run) as that's been around a while and will be easier for beginners. The PS3 Linux community is quite active but I think most people are more interested in recompiling existing stuff to run on it rather than writing new stuff. I would have a go myself but I just don't have the time right now. Perhaps if I get bored with the games I have, or win the lottery and quit work I will finally give it a go
I do think its interesting where people are writing Linux games and using a very small Linux distro to produce their own bootable game disks for the PS3. Its a nice idea and surprisingly Sony encourage running alternative operating systems so don't have a problem with it.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 05:38
Quote: "Why can't you do anything else? The console has no problems downloading stuff in the background while you play games, browse the Web, chat, listen to music or watch downloaded videos. If the network is as slow for you as you make out then its obviously not using up much resources, is it?"


I have 6 games for my PS3 in all.. and I've completed them all; non of which I have any intention of replaying.

I'm still undecided about which system to get Unreal Tournament 3 for just yet, it's about half the price on the PC; but it would mean I could get some more use out of my PS3.. then again the 360 version is due soon with achievements and controller support (which I actually prefer over KB/Mouse combos, plus achievements)

So all my PS3 gets used for is BluRay movies, which as I've said; not touched in in a couple of months so you can guess how many of them I own.

Quote: "Not true at all. All PS3s support USB mass storage devices, so you can use USB memory sticks, USB hard disks, MP3 players, even my mobile phone works as a storage device! Besides, if you do have a PS3 with memory card slots and choose to use SD cards, they aren't expensive at all - 4GB for under £10."


The 360 is capable of pulling media from all of those sources too, however you can use the USB HDDs with the 360 to also run software from. Although personally all I use mine for is storing movies and such I rent from Marketplace.

The capacity is still there unlike the PS3; what's more is I have a fairly cheap SD-Card, which I bought for my SonyEricsson phone; yet I've also recently gone back to the smaller official one because the cheapo one decided to corrupt for no apparent reason. I'll probably get another Sony one after next payday, but frankly the quality from SanDisk (who are the only real alternative right now) is just close to piss-poor.

Right now the ONLY aspect of owning a PS3 I'm looking forward to that is being released as an update soon is streaming games to my PSP whenever I'm in WiFi range. Being able to play my old PS1 titles without having to take up one of the TVs here so my brother can use one of the other consoles at the same time is appealing to me. So far it's the only plus side of the console, BluRay doesn't even interest me cause I'm not paying excess for BluRay when I can download HD movies through Xbox Marketplace and NetFlix. (not just download but also stream!)

Add to this the fact that everyone keeps saying "Oh BluRay on 1080p is sooo amazingly awesome!!", guess what; my HD-TV only does 720p, reason for that is I'm not paying almost double the price for the same size television just to see something in the best quality when HD-DVD looked great at 480/720/1080.

BluRay winning the format wars is REALLY gonna have people loving the excess they have to pay for this so-called "awesome picture quality", eh?

Quote: " don't think this is true either. The official Sony Playstation Blog has said that they don't mind people upgrading the hard disk themselves and even link to a CNET tutorial showing you how to do it. Its very simple as you can use pretty much any 2.5inch SATA drive (just like those in notebook PCs) and it sits in a slideout caddy. You stick in a new drive, turn it on and the PS3 will prep the drive for you. Easy.
The PS3 also has the built-in 'backup' feature to copy off your purchased games etc. onto USB storage so you don't need to download them again."


Just cause a company shows you how to do something, doesn't mean it doesn't void the warrenty. Not that I guess it matters much with Sony because even with the warrenty you still have to pay through the nose to get your system fixed.

To get my BluRay fixed when I first got my PS3 cost me close to an extra £100 for sending it off and repairs. UNDER SODDING WARRENTY, hell that was within 2 weeks of purchase!

If I had known it was going to cost that much at the time, and that they wouldn't release it until I paid; I would've simply asked in Game if they could've simply replaced it for me.

Quote: "When you work 10-12 hours days your downloads will be done when you get home. Take 2 minutes to install them."


Wow what a good idea, why didn't I think of that?
Probably cause my brother has a habit of unplugging whatever console is attached to my television and attaching whatever he wants to use; namely the 360. So I've given up and just leave that plugged in now.

The amount of times I've come home thinking "Oh such-n-such will be ready to play now!" only to find the PS3 sitting on the sofa with leads everywhere and my brother on Viva Pinata is beyond me.

I wouldn't mind if like the 360 the bloody thing resumed downloads, but it ONLY does this if you pause the download manually; or something else does it for you. Turning the machine off = Download parts go bye-bye.

Quote: "It also depends on how many people buy the game... I would bet the number online of players relative to the number of copies sold is about the same for ALL consoles. "


See my original comments that Zappo shot down (with no proof to the contrary by the way) about PS3 versions of games selling worse than their 360 counter-parts.

Quote: "*looks at Raven's signature gamerscore* "


It's out of date again, as my score is a little higher now.
That said; it's not as "wow he games alot" as it might seem.

Remember I've had my 360 for what, coming up to 3years now. Someone else on my list currently has 114,000 gamerscore and has only had his for a year.

So 6,600 over 50 games; I don't think is exactly impressive. Especially with a combined 1,500 from Halo 3 and Viva Pinata. It really more shows what I play more of; or maybe just don't totally suck at.

Krilik
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Mar 2006
Location: Arizona, USA
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 06:40 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2008 06:41
Quote: "Wow what a good idea, why didn't I think of that?"

I have 5 consoles hooked up to one input on my television. None of them ever have to be turned off.

Quote: "but it ONLY does this if you pause the download manually; or something else does it for you. Turning the machine off = Download parts go bye-bye."


I don't know what you mean by this. The only time I've seen my PS3 fail to resume downloads is when my frequently annoying cable provider's service seems to fail. In which case the PS3 puts up an error and will only continue the download if you choose to. But I've turned it on standby, turned the back switch off, watched movies, and even changed between a WiFi and wired connection to watch it resume downloading whatever was set to download.

Quote: "See my original comments that Zappo shot down (with no proof to the contrary by the way) about PS3 versions of games selling worse than their 360 counter-parts."


I did, and they are selling worse... Because their target audience is not the same size as the 360s. In fact, 360 games should be selling 170% better than PS3 games, statistically.

My point being, you can't expect to find more, or the same amount of people playing PS3 games, or online PS3. Even if it is free. At least not at this point.

Quote: "It's out of date again, as my score is a little higher now.
That said; it's not as "wow he games alot" as it might seem."


I wasn't implying that you're showboating. I was implying the purpose of the gamerscore was merely to "show off". Achievements really don't mean anything, and neither do Trophies. IMO they're really just cop outs to try and get people to play the game, as if the actual experience of the game isn't worthwhile enough. I hate the so-called "unlockables" that developers think people should work for. If you're going to make people work at least reward players with something that affects the experience. My other annoyance with them is, people seem to think all of the sudden doing what Achievments want you to do is worthwhile, just because they're Achievements. If the game was worth playing people would find out, or at least attempt to exploit the game for all its worth without the motivation of some words and an icon, or 3D model.

It was like the example of the guy who said he beat GTASA in a night... There was no reason to do it. To me, the developers did a better job at getting him to play GTASA than any developer who thinks Trophies and Achievements are mandatory.
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 06:49
Quote: "I can download HD movies through Xbox Marketplace and NetFlix. (not just download but also stream!)"


The NetFlix streaming is already available? Are you sure? Last I heard it was a simple survey of Netflix customers, but it wasn't even announced or anything. I also can't find the option on my 360 anywhere.


Libervurto
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 07:50 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2008 07:52
Quote: "hell due to recent sales I'd actually hazard a guess most are just being used as bloody BluRay players to be honest."

Right on the money raven; I work at a shop that sells consoles and about half of our PS3 customers are buying them purely as blu-ray players.

I also have to say that about 50% of the 360s we've sold have come back faulty, one guy had two that were faulty! maybe he was just an idiot but the third worked fine.

I own a PS3 and I am getting frustrated with the lack of good games, but saying that, there's not much on 360 I'd like either, are we just in a bad spell for games?
Can't wait for GTA IV! I made a thread about it

Oh, I rented Devil May Cry 4 and it sucks ass, I hate it! I had the original on PS2 and really got into it. Although it's not my sort of game the puzzle side kept me interested.

I am using my PS3 as a time machine at the moment, playing PS2 games, I LOVE lego star wars, it's just plain fun!

Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 09:32
Quote: "The NetFlix streaming is already available? Are you sure? Last I heard it was a simple survey of Netflix customers, but it wasn't even announced or anything. I also can't find the option on my 360 anywhere."


NetFlix Silverlight site allows Streaming, that said the streaming on 360 is automatic if you choose to play immediately.

Quote: "I have 5 consoles hooked up to one input on my television. None of them ever have to be turned off."


We have too many devices already plugged in, in the living room.
Too many is a firehazard; used to have a few multi-plugs about cause of so many, but the socket literally burst in to flames one day with overload.

After getting the downstairs rewired we decided it wasn't such a good idea to have so many devices plugged in at once. Besides my electricity bill is quite high right now; £110/month that's just with one of the consoles plugged in most of the time.

Devices on standby still use around 75% of their power useage. It's why my latest PC has been built to slightly greener standards, with bills having gone up by about 15% this quarter; it's just getting too expensive. You don't even wanna know what I pay rent-wise atm for the privilage of living near London.

Quote: " wasn't implying that you're showboating. I was implying the purpose of the gamerscore was merely to "show off". Achievements really don't mean anything, and neither do Trophies. IMO they're really just cop outs to try and get people to play the game, as if the actual experience of the game isn't worthwhile enough. I hate the so-called "unlockables" that developers think people should work for. If you're going to make people work at least reward players with something that affects the experience. My other annoyance with them is, people seem to think all of the sudden doing what Achievments want you to do is worthwhile, just because they're Achievements. If the game was worth playing people would find out, or at least attempt to exploit the game for all its worth without the motivation of some words and an icon, or 3D model.

It was like the example of the guy who said he beat GTASA in a night... There was no reason to do it. To me, the developers did a better job at getting him to play GTASA than any developer who thinks Trophies and Achievements are mandatory."


Achievements are like common-goals to work towards really. That you can compare at a glance.. it extends the life of games, not very often makes them the reason for purchase.

Although 1000G from Avatar:Legend of Anng within 2minutes of playing; yeah that's kinda the exception. (which btw no, isn't on my list lol)

Quote: "I own a PS3 and I am getting frustrated with the lack of good games, but saying that, there's not much on 360 I'd like either, are we just in a bad spell for games?"


I'd say have a look on Live Arcade or Xbox Originals. Some good new games on there right now.

Finally.
GEARS OF WAR 2 - Officially announced and release set for November 2008

Checkout the new tralier from GDC, no gameplay but hints at the story and a REALLY cool chainsaw scene ^_^

Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 09:40
Not trying to drag this off topic, but has anyone tried the XNA club games yet? - Only tried a couple, but damn that Jelly Car game is awesome!, it's sorta like a mix between line rider and Poco Loco, well worth checking out.

One thing I like about Live, is how geek friendly they are, there's developer diary videos, XNA club games will ease their way in, Live just gets better and better. Is this sort of stuff coming to PS3?, like user created games?
Now if they could get some more arcade remakes (nobody love Bubble Bobble or Black Tiger?) then I'd be happy, although a few XBL Arcade games are pretty good, like Switchball.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
Zappo
Valued Member
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2004
Location: In the post
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 11:02
Quote: "The 360 is capable of pulling media from all of those sources too"
Really? You can browse the Web and download files using the 360? Its news to me.
Quote: "BluRay winning the format wars is REALLY gonna have people loving the excess they have to pay for this so-called "awesome picture quality", eh?"
Yep. Seems to be the case.
Quote: "See my original comments that Zappo shot down (with no proof to the contrary by the way) about PS3 versions of games selling worse than their 360 counter-parts."
I did provide proof - the REAL UK games chart information based on units sold, and not that 'guestimated' chart site you pointed to. Most weeks, the PS3 game sales in the all formats top ten are less than those of the Xbox360 but they have the same number of games in the top ten so the difference isn't as much as you'd like to make out. There have been weeks where the PS3 has had more games in the top ten.
Quote: "Devices on standby still use around 75% of their power useage."
I hate to pull you up again but this is not correct. Here are the figures from an independant test:

PS3
193.6 Watts playing games
177.17 Watts at Idle
1.9 Watts on Standby (about 1% of idling power)

XBox360
185.1 Watts playing games
157.54 Watts at Idle
2.5 Watts on Standby (about 1.6% of idling power)

Wii
17.8 Watts playing games
13.5 Watts at Idle
9.6 Watts on Standby (with Connect24 On) (about 71% of idling power)
1.3 Watts on Standby (with Connect24 Off) (about 9.6% of idling power)

The full report is available at:
http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-356-1.htm


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
Krilik
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Mar 2006
Location: Arizona, USA
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 20:10
Quote: "I am using my PS3 as a time machine at the moment, playing PS2 games, I LOVE lego star wars, it's just plain fun!"


Why wouldn't you just go buy The Complete Saga on the PS3 then? It has online multi, and new levels, unlockables, and characters?

Quote: "Devices on standby still use around 75% of their power useage. It's why my latest PC has been built to slightly greener standards, with bills having gone up by about 15% this quarter; it's just getting too expensive. You don't even wanna know what I pay rent-wise atm for the privilage of living near London."


Not in standby, like Zappo said. Leaving in on while downloading though I'm also wary of.

Quote: "Achievements are like common-goals to work towards really. That you can compare at a glance.. it extends the life of games, not very often makes them the reason for purchase."


Which I still don't understand how it extends the life of games just for the sake of it. The only positive thing about it is the fact that its proof of doing it. But you can do everything in the game that Achievements or Trophies want you to do, without the actual Achievement or Trophy. To me, all it is, is a system to casually integrate what hardcore players have been doing for years, but now you're "rewarded" for doing it.
Kentaree
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2002
Location: Clonmel, Ireland
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 20:42
I see achievements of a variation on RPG levels, you unlock them and build your profile up, just like you would with levels in RPGs

Libervurto
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 22nd Feb 2008 21:33
I once tried to 100% complete GTA San Andreas, but after a while I got really bored and wondered why I was doing this, it stopped being fun.

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-19 22:20:52
Your offset time is: 2024-11-19 22:20:52