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Geek Culture / Why does Britain HATE first-time buyers!?

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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 12:56
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What the f* is going on!? Wages are low, house prices are high! While I'm stuck making £5.70/hr slaving over a hot soldering iron (pay issue has been raised and shot down at work already, so no chances for negotiation) the average house price in this stupid country is through the roof! (no pun intended). A mortgage for the cheapest place in my local area is more per month than I actually earn! Why is it so f*in' hard to get a foot on the property ladder!? I'm nearing my mid 20s! I should have my own place! No jobs with decent pay and no-one to buy a place with! I don't want to rent, I want my own place. Advice is greatly appreciated! Sorry for ranting, I'm just incredibly frustrated.

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Jess T
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 13:10
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If you're nearing your mid-20's, and you don't have a skill that is more valuable than 5.70/hr, then you'd better start looking at college courses, or getting a second job. Now.

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Van B
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 13:20
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Sonic, really your not earning enough to consider buying a place outside of Bosnia. Have you considered a housing association? - they build and renovate houses then rent them to those on lower income, less than private let's, but more than council housing. These associations often have a buy option after a little while.

Maybe in a couple of years you'll be earning enough to buy the house your renting.

I feel your pain though, I'm kinda lucky in that house prices around here are fairly low (a 2 bed flat in a good area for £66k, not too shabby, that's about £350/month as a mortgage). I'm looking to buy a place, but want to have a smaller mortgage than I could get, It's tricky for me getting life insurance (Diabetic) so it's not always easy, even if you do earn enough.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
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Dazzag
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 13:48 Edited at: 20th Feb 2008 13:48
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My first house cost me £127k in 1999. Didn't even reach my salary with the rule at the time. Now I hear it is about £260k. Using the 3.5 times your wage rule at the time then now you would need to earn about £75k ($150k) a year if you bought it on your own. Although now apparently it is deffo 5 times your wage, and can wangle higher (even at 7 times we are talking £37k a year). We are not talking about a castle here either. Was a 3 bedroom end of terrace in an alright area (not great, but not bad). Now it looks like 50 year mortgages may be the way. Possibly 75 year mortgages. Like in Japan where you leave the place in your will.

Is totally nuts. Would really hate to start on the ladder again now. And I had mates laughing at me cos I left it so long at the time...

Most of the first time buyers I know are normally couples on good wages (£70k+ total income) with smaller houses and good deposits. And they are still paying £1500 a month in mortgage payments. Bit nuts when you consider the same place for rent would only be half as much.

Whole country is now on the idea of not saving at all. Spend it all. Lots of good reasons including getting a council house (or just marry someone in one) and buying the house for peanuts, or get that government scheme where you only buy a % of a house (only if you are struggling though).

Cheers

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Zappo
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 13:52
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Approaching a housing association is a good idea.
I understand your annoyance. Last time I looked the price of renting was not much different to repayments on a mortgage so its not even worth renting for a while and saving up a deposit. I was very lucky and I bought my house before the prices went stupid. Mine is now worth more than 3 times what I paid for it in 1999. Not that this makes much difference because if I moved house, the property I moved to would have tripled in price too so I am no better off.


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El Goorf
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 13:53
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i think u shoudl be asking, why does britain love buying? the rest of europe rents their accomodation quite happily, why are brits so obsessed with owning their own homes?

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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 14:01 Edited at: 20th Feb 2008 14:02
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Quote: "If you're nearing your mid-20's, and you don't have a skill that is more valuable than 5.70/hr, then you'd better start looking at college courses, or getting a second job. Now."


Building power supplies, stuffing circuit boards, examining/packing/shipping orders to customers is worth WAY more than £5.70/hr. And I do a lot more besides. We get paid for any overtime at our normal rate too. Rip off.

Quote: "i think u shoudl be asking, why does britain love buying? the rest of europe rents their accomodation quite happily, why are brits so obsessed with owning their own homes?"


So you can sell it for a profit, perhaps?

Quote: "I'm kinda lucky in that house prices around here are fairly low (a 2 bed flat in a good area for £66k, not too shabby, that's about £350/month as a mortgage)."


The cheapest places in my town are in an area notorious for stabbings, arson, burglary, etc. And even there prices are around £100,000 for a 1 bed flat.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 14:27
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Yeah the property ladder is something I'm scared of, I'm just jumping onto renting a house for Uni next year (instead of living in halls) and sounds like it sucks...and yes it's definitely expensive.

Take other people's advice, whilst renting a house, look for a part time college course and get some skills that'll impress bigger employers. Or changes your job, you're clearly underpaid.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 14:32 Edited at: 20th Feb 2008 14:35
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Quote: "Last time I looked the price of renting was not much different to repayments on a mortgage"
Not from what I saw. An example is some friends of mine who bought a place for about £210k (average nothing special smallish house where I used to live). They put down about £50k in deposit and had a £160k mortgage or there abouts. Think they are paying about £1400 a month for the mortgage. They checked and they would get about £800-900 a month for rent. Way off.

Quote: "So you can sell it for a profit, perhaps?"
Thats how it ends up. I made about £100k in 6 years. Ok, so everything else went up too, but then again I moved out of the country and now live rent/mortgage free Honestly with outsourcing jobs to other countries, the country will be full of chavs soon.

Cheers

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MSon
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 15:10 Edited at: 20th Feb 2008 15:11
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Hi Sonic 91 Software, i feel your pain as im 26, live in manchester and earn £6.50 as a Broadband adviser for BTWholesale im currently looking at renting my first property, and just for rent im looking at £400 to £500 per month for a small 1 bedroom flat, but thats about what i earn in a month.

to buy a place for £125K would be about 9-10 years for me if i never spent money on anythink else, and where i live £125K for a 1 bedroom flat would be a bargin

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 16:47
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£400-£500 for a 1 bedroom flat...ouch! That sucks. I'm glad the houses we're looking at in Derby are £50-£70 a week per person...the old 8 room, 3 kitchen Victorian house was going to rent for £73 a week including bills...shame it turned out that the landlord was crap...so we're not going for that one.

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Exium
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 19:23
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House prices are on the rise again, due to British banks investing into American properties. The investments went bad when the areas of the buildings were trashed/deserted. Now Americans won't buy the houses in which our Banks invested in because who wants to buy a house in a run-down area? Thus they're losing money. A few people who bought the mortgages in America are now getting into severe debt as they was under the impression they had to pay $200/month, until the mortgage was risen to $900/month. They claim the companies never told them that the mortgage will rise.

Now we're expected to pay for the mistakes of our Government messing with the Banks of England.
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Redmotion
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 21:18
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It's a struggle to pay for a 1 bed flat even on a good salary these days.

Hmm... It disgusts me how little people get paid these days. All the rich people running companies take home millions each year and say they "earned it/worked for it". They didn't, they stole from their employees. In my opinion, very few millionaires+ have attained their wealth fairly.

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Jeku
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 21:26
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Yah, I make a pretty good salary and can't afford a house in my city. The average house cost here is $600k, and most of them are being snapped up by rich immigrants. Hmmm...


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 21:42
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Lets all move to Bulgaria, you know, take over and make it TGC land...cheap living, cheap property prices...yeah not huge income, but TGC would earn enough to pay for all of us...

Ideal solution...well if life were that simple, we'd all be moving there. My other solution is less realistic, that is get some cash, go back in time and buy some London property (or get shares in Apple just before Microsoft bail them out) and then wait until 2008 and make a bundle.


Seriously though, this does kind of suck.

Quote: "Now we're expected to pay for the mistakes of our Government "


Not that I mean to be political, but - avoiding the pessimism of the media in my POV - I think certain people in charge (not all) are not caring enough about the money of the people in the country but taking 'feel good' moments to make its people feel safe and attempting to keep the economy safe...but haven't entirely been successful (prices rising (fuel, food, house...), taxes rising, wages...well, not sufficiently) Also, I think Parliament...actually that'll be too far.

If this what I consider 'neutral' comment isn't seen as being neutral by other people's standards and being too 'political' I'll edit.

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 21:45
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Quote: "Building power supplies, stuffing circuit boards, examining/packing/shipping orders to customers is worth WAY more than £5.70/hr. And I do a lot more besides. We get paid for any overtime at our normal rate too. Rip off."

Then find another job that pays better .


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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 21:54
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Would you rather pay 30% tax on a house, or a 1-2% mortgage over the normal amount of time it takes to pay off a house without taking out a second mortgage?

Just wondering...

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BatVink
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 21:57
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You need to think laterally. If you are on minimum wage, you should review your job options. In all likelihood, all risks included, you could earn more self-employed. Being a window cleaner, doing 2 houses an hour at £5 each will double your wage (you'll pay less tax). Getting a marketable skill will work out better in the longer term, even if you have to drop your wage for a while.

We bought our first house 15 years ago. Even then I would have never got it alone. You need a stable relationship or mates you can trust.
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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 22:09
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Quote: "Lets all move to Bulgaria, you know, take over and make it TGC land...cheap living, cheap property prices...yeah not huge income, but TGC would earn enough to pay for all of us..."


Good idea! When I was in Bulgaria last September all I could see everywhere I went were apartment blocks being built on the dusty landscape and billboards advertising investment properties at unbelievably low prices. Besides, a lot of Bulgaria is now "touristy", so there won't be any need to learn the native language!

Quote: "Hmm... It disgusts me how little people get paid these days. All the rich people running companies take home millions each year and say they "earned it/worked for it". They didn't, they stole from their employees. In my opinion, very few millionaires+ have attained their wealth fairly."


Best point so far! There is a very wide gulf in the rich-poor divide, especially in Britain, and it's ever widening. The poor are getting poorer, the rich are getting richer, etc.

I saw on the front of the Daily Mail today the headline "End of the 100% mortgage". That, to me, is Goodnight Vienna. I have no deposit, I can barely afford to put money in savings. That means, by sticking to the 3.5 times rule, I can only get a mortgage for around £37,000. Well, that says it all. Where will the £90,000 deposit come from?

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 20th Feb 2008 22:27
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Quote: "Best point so far! There is a very wide gulf in the rich-poor divide, especially in Britain, and it's ever widening. The poor are getting poorer, the rich are getting richer, etc."


That's like over here in the good old U S of A. The middle class is slowly disappearing. Some major economic reform needs to be done and better tax dollar spending.

The reason I asked the 30% vs 1-2% question about was because I'm doing a lengthy research paper on something called the Fair Tax. Google it if you want more info, but it sounds interesting.

I'm just annoying living in a state where there is both an income tax and a sales tax. Many states over here just have a sales tax and don't even have an income tax. Why does my state need both? Where is all that money going where we can't have a strong economy?

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Jess T
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 00:34
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Quote: "find another job that pays better"


Exactly.

My GF is currently a sales assistant, but her manager is so incompitent, that she ends up doing her job. She's on a sales-assistants wage, doing a managers job.
I encouraged her to look for a new job, and now she has, she's realized she can earn up to an extra $10K a year whilst doing less work (not a sales-assistant, just a manager).

Get out and change jobs.
If you really struggle, then change skill-set.

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MSon
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 00:50 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 00:53
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college/uni is out of the question for me as i still have about £4000 in old education costs to pay, about 2/3 years left paying this, ill be 30 by then, i think the last load of additonal education i took was a waist of money.

i applied for a job recently doing the same as im currently doing for a different service provider, but for 27K per year, only problem is about 10 people on my department have applied for the same job as they dont come along often, not to mention anyone else that has applied for the job.


Quote: "find another job that pays better"


Easier said than done, if it was that easy then everyone would be rich.

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Jess T
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 01:05
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Quote: "Easier said than done, if it was that easy then everyone would be rich."


That's the thing, you have to work at it to make yourself so valuable to the company that's going to hire you (at least make it seem so on your resume) that you'll be a shoe-in.

For example, I'm just finishing my Uni course, and I've had a few interviews with companies, they were all gob-smacked at my resume because I already have games written - none of the other applicants were close.

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MSon
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 01:15 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 01:16
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thats a good idea, i've never put programmes i've made on my CV as its just a hobby, i should add my IPTV System, they can watch TV at work whalst reviewing my job application

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sprite
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 01:29
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Sonic have you thought of going in to building trade. You can build power supplies so wiring peoples homes will not be too hard to do and it has good pay. Sure the hours will suck starting at 5pm.

Also stop doing overtime for your job and set up a PC help service. Set up peoples computers and broadband. Your be suprised how much I earn doing this. £20 an hour do it on the evernings and Saturdays. Makes me around £340 a week for easy work.

If you like you job at the moment ask for a pay rise. If they say "No" look for another job can't hurt to ask. Just don't tell them your looking your be the first to be fired as they will see you as a None team player.

I'll add something later on.
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Dazzag
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 09:21
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Quote: "The poor are getting poorer, the rich are getting richer, etc"
Dunno, it seems to me most people below rich people are getting poorer, but on the other hand lazy good for nothing slugs are getting it better than ever. In Britain now we have successfully got rid of absolute poverty it seems a lot of people use the situation to their advantage. I have no worries knowing a lot of my tax goes to an unfortunate single mum with a couple of kids after her husband left her or died. Not so good when a couple has loads of kids, pays hardly anything for council rent, and claims disability benefit and effectively get by without doing anything jobwise. My landlord's son had 4 kids and hadn't worked in a decade (didn't want to). Eh? And you see this sort of thing all over the place. What happened to can't afford to have a kid yet??? Basically it costs too much to check the difference between scams and people who really need the money. And it is impossible to prove a back injury one way or another. Ah, another nice benefit to claim... Scum...

Cheers

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Jeremiah
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 09:51
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The world economy is falling apart and things are going to get a lot worse. The US's reliance on cheap energy and your countries desire to keep the US afloat has created a giant mess that us and our children will pay for, for a long time.

I highly doubt he is going to find to many opportunities, and if he wants any shot at all, he had better get off his ass now.
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Van B
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 10:04
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Things will improve for the sole reason that it's a problem, when enough people have money to invest in property but can't, options will become available. New houses are being built all over the place, and when they can't sell, house prices will have to fall, they will have to be made available.

One major concern of mine is what local councils do with the money they get from people buying their council homes, where I live the money is simply absorbed, no new council houses get made, they just get knocked down for private builds. So really its up to the people throwing up these cheap houses to make them accessible for first time buyers, even if it means helping financially with deposits.

The other thing I think really sticks it to us is all these property developers, buying houses, spending a couple of grand decorating, then inflating the price. On the flip side of this, is the happy times when they fail miserably, and have to sell the house at their buy price or even less, in some cases when these houses go to auction you can get a great deal, if you get in there before the bloody property developers and buy-to-let scumbags. Re-possessed houses can sell for much less than their market value.

It's not all doom and gloom, personally I'd wait a year and see how the market is, first time buyers should be considered the cream of the crop, because there's no chain for them to hold up, no house to sell before they can buy another one, things will turn around soon I just know it. Might seem a bit selfish, but they can really benefit from other peoples misfortune, property is a pretty savage business these days!.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
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david w
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 12:13
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I'm glad I live in the USA.
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BatVink
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 14:23
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Quote: "I'm glad I live in the USA. "


...where the current problem started with sub-prime lending!
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GatorHex
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 15:55 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 16:28
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Houses are overvalued because Brown relaxed the rules on lending and the system got crazy with lending cheap money and not worrying if they couldn't afford it. People also lost confidence in pensions so started to use houses as an invstment tool.

Low interest rates = high inflation = higher prices.

Next time somone calls for interest rates to be cut you should point them at Japan where they cut almost to zero and now prices are so high that their mortgage is passed on to their children when they die!

I do not expect a house price crash in the near future while the goverment is propping up the Northern Rock bank either (i hope im wrong) because they would lose billions so I expect the goverment to do everything in their power to maintain the status quo on prices until it's offloaded.

Part of the reason your wages are so low is because English speaking EU citizens can work here no questions asked. It's a very competative job market and we need to learn French/Spanish/German/Polish etc. and move east where property is cheaper. In my local news is a dude fom Wigan who traveled to Poland to have his teeth fixed (because it costs so much here) now he likes it so much he's gona move there. If you're too lazy to learn a language check out New Zealand as most unhappy brits seem to be heading there

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Diggsey
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 18:20 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 18:22
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Did you know that every taxpayer in Britain, already owes over £1000 through taxes to people who have loans with Northern Rock. This money is supposed to be going towards education, health care, etc. Instead, it is being diverted to nationalize Northern Rock. Not at all a coincidence that a large number of MPs have mortgages with Northern Rock

Even the money that does go to education and the health service (especially) is being wasted. The problem is, that the high up people in the health service have no incentive to spend the money wisely (due to it having been nationalized). All they are interested in is meeting the targets set by the government.
One example is a target to reduce the time patients have to wait for beds in hospitals. All it means is that patients stay in the ambulances until there is a free bed, because it doesn't count as 'waiting time'. Because of this, the ambulances can't go out again until there is a free bed, which means more people will die before the ambulance even reaches them. If the health service was privatised, but still payed for by the government if the person cannot afford treatment, the government could probably cut taxes by about a third! (Based on how much goes towards the health service).

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Dream
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 18:28
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i hate gordon brown why do we have a scottish prime minister in england when the scotts wont let us go too their country and elect me as theirs

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Samoz83
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 20:46 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 20:47
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Quote: "i hate gordon brown why do we have a scottish prime minister in england when the scotts wont let us go too their country and elect me as theirs"


elect you as their what? He is prime minister of the UK not just England

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Samoz83
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 20:46 Edited at: 21st Feb 2008 20:46
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opps stupid post button

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GatorHex
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Posted: 21st Feb 2008 21:50
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Diggsey, that statistic dodge is also why youth crime is up. It's easier to catch kids than real criminals.

Kids don't get their day in court, they get a repremand (criminal record until 18) without a jury deciding on the matter. If you was 14 and threated with a night in a jail cell or sign a piece of paper admitting a crime then go home with your mum, which would most kids do? Kids playing with matches gets recorded as something serious like attempted arson. Then when the figures are collected it looks like the police have been dealing with real crime!

When people have targets they will do the easiest tasks to meet them.

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