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Geek Culture / Format Wars: XBOX360 with Blu-Ray

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tha_rami
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 17:51 Edited at: 9th Mar 2008 00:21
One of the last episodes of the soap drama Format Wars describes how in the aftermath of the Blu-Ray victory over HD-DVD, Microsoft has started talks with Sony about a XBOX360 Blu-Ray player.

While on the one hand, this will improve the XBOX360's situation on the market, it will also yield Sony some massive profits.

Source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ca6017de-eba6-11dc-9493-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1


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enthusiast
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 18:41
Quote: "While on the one hand, this will improve the XBOX360's situation on the market, it will also yield Sony some massive profits."


So everybody is happy then!

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GatorHex
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 21:42 Edited at: 8th Mar 2008 21:59
If i was Sony I'd probably give M$ a poke in the eye and say no so I'd have the only platform with Blueray on the market

I have to wonder though, if the film industry only went Sony because Sony promised to nobble blue-ray on the PC to stop pirating movie discs? If i was trying to win the format war that's the stratagy i would have used to get them on side

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Dared1111
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 21:50
but sony win, xbox will go up in price and sony will reap profits.


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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 22:24
MS can approach one of the other companies in the Blu-Ray consortium--- Sony doesn't own the Blu-Ray format as far as I know.

Anyways, it won't be in-built as tha_rami has said, but most likely an add-on like their dead HD-DVD player was.

Another thing is that this is just speculation. In my opinion Microsoft doesn't need to offer this. Gamers aren't demanding Blu-Ray movies, and the 360 definitely won't play games from the Blu-Ray discs. Also, Microsoft has already started going digital with their downloadable movies in HD format, so I can't see the reasoning behind a Blu-Ray adapter.


Zappo
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 23:37
I agree Jeku. Even if MS did produce an external BD drive I can't see it selling well. The HD-DVD drive didn't and back then it had as much support from the movie industry as Blu-Ray.
If MS produced a 360 with an internal BD drive it would certainly put an end to the out-of-date 'PS3 is sooo expensive' argument which still rears its head from the 360 fanboys.
Either way its a nice boost to Sony's ego simply that MS are interested in supplying BD hardware seeing as they were such a big part of the HD-DVD camp.


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Osiris
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 23:50
I think the BLU thing for the 360 would be okay for people who already have an HD TV but have no blue ray player, and have a 360.

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You will be dearly missed.
tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Mar 2008 00:28
My bad, it's not integrated.


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 9th Mar 2008 00:34
Quote: "My bad, it's not integrated."

What were you saying about consoles not being changeable? .


tha_rami
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Posted: 9th Mar 2008 00:38
The type of optical media it plays doesn't really change the console, you know...


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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 9th Mar 2008 22:46
MS might even become a BD member and make their own drive if they want. But as mentioned earlier, I doubt MS will offer any BD capacity for 360, especially with a Sony logo on it PS3 will generate BD sales for sure, or at least boost rentals, but I suspect most 360 owners won't consider buying an external player.

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Jeku
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Posted: 9th Mar 2008 22:47
Quote: "especially with a Sony logo on it"


Sony doesn't own the Blu-Ray format, so I doubt you'll see a Sony logo on the drive regardless.


Jess T
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 02:09
I'm not too up on the latest format war, but I've noticed increasingly that people have been referring to Blu-Ray as 'BD'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't it be BR, or B-DVD?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 02:12
Quote: "Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't it be BR, or B-DVD?"


Nope




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Jess T
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 04:32
So then shouldn't it be BRD?

Sorry, I just didn't catch on when I read it as BD!

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Osiris
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 04:53
The "R" is silent like the "b" in comb or the "t" in buffet"

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bitJericho
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 05:12
Or blu-ray is one word, thus making BD as the acronym, sort of like how the logo has it that's shown above.


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Osiris
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 05:29
Yeah...but my way uses the useless "silent letter" function of the English language.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 05:35
Quote: "Yeah...but my way uses the useless "silent letter" function of the English language."


You're right, that is pretty sweet.


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Jess T
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 10:10
Quote: "like how the logo has it that's shown above."


Heh, I always thought the Curve represented the edge of a disc


Ok, I understand now Never been too good at English, so I thought that when creating an acronym, a hyphen was like a space.

Thanks guys

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 12:01 Edited at: 10th Mar 2008 12:02
Quote: "Sony doesn't own the Blu-Ray format, so I doubt you'll see a Sony logo on the drive regardless."


I never expected to be corrected on that one. If MS takes up Sony's offer on the drive then it would be Sony making the drive, not anybody else. Would there be a Sony logo on a drive made by Sony? Maybe not in this case, but a lot of people would know.


Quote: "Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't it be BR, or B-DVD?"


Just to add to the list. Blu-ray is a single word, one could write it as B or BR but one usually refers to the technology as Blu-ray and the disc itself as a Blu-ray Disc. BD is nice and short, just like CD (remember those?). BDR could also be an acronym for BD-ROM.

BD doesn't really have much in common with a DVD, it's a new generation so why bother with the old one? It would be like calling a DVD for DV-CD. Although I've seen stores use BDVD in marketing.

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Zappo
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 12:13 Edited at: 10th Mar 2008 12:13
Hey, I guess this makes Interactive Blu-Ray Disks BDi's (as in 'beady eyes')


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Jeku
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 21:37
Quote: "If MS takes up Sony's offer on the drive then it would be Sony making the drive, not anybody else."


Like I said, Sony does not *own* the Blu-Ray format. Other manufacturers are creating Blu-Ray players, so MS wouldn't have to go through Sony. They might be doing just that, but they don't *have* to, so a Sony logo doesn't necessarily have to appear on the product.


Keo C
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 00:08
I think Jeku will slap anyone else who says the Sony owns Blu-ray format now


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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 00:29


I'm not that mean. Am I?


David R
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 00:33
You are if we continue to irritate you

I posted before this post got....


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tha_rami
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 00:35
Lets try:

Sony owns the Blu-ray format.


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Keo C
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 00:56
Quote: "
I'm not that mean. Am I?
"

No, you're not, but DrewG seems to think so.

Enough of teh hijack though.


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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 01:09
Quote: "No, you're not, but DrewG seems to think so."


Coming from a user who is permanently banned from the forum, I don't have a problem with that

But ya--- back on topic--- go Blu-Ray


Digital Awakening
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 01:22
Quote: "Like I said, Sony does not *own* the Blu-Ray format. Other manufacturers are creating Blu-Ray players, so MS wouldn't have to go through Sony. They might be doing just that, but they don't *have* to, so a Sony logo doesn't necessarily have to appear on the product."


Again you try to correct me without getting the point. I KNOW that Sony doesn't own Blu-ray, I have corrected others on that part so I must have known for some time. Did you even read the article that this thread is about?

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tha_rami
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 08:25
In any case, a nice trend, I was at work yesterday and noticed that the prices of Bluray have soared since what, two weeks ago? Pretty insane.


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Zappo
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 12:10
What do you mean by 'soared'? You can buy the players from several places for just under £200 still, and Play.com sell the movies from £13.99 with a '3-for-2' deal going on at the moment.


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tha_rami
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Posted: 12th Mar 2008 00:36
Well, I work at a retail store, and the average advice price (or whatever they are called in English) for BD's has gone up by 12% since last week.


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Raven
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Posted: 12th Mar 2008 12:13
The ownership of Blu-ray is quite a grey area.
Panasonic (in-particular Mitsush*ta) actually developed the technology itself based on a previous digital format that had more limited commercial success.

Sony however have the patents.

Control over who is accepted for license is in the hands of the Consortium.

So who actually owns it really is a grey area as I said.
For all intended purposes though, you can simply say Sony own it given they legally are the ones who have final say over what does and doesn't happen with it.

However this CAN NOT lead to refusing to let competitors using a format if they use proper routes. For example Samsung who currently provide Sony with their recent HD-DVD and DVD drives, are part of the Blu-ray Consortium and are allowed to supply drives to whoever they choose.

As Blu-ray itself doesn't use any propriotry encoding format past the BDi system, which is technically just a java program that'll run on anything capable of using JVM; again Sony really don't have any way to physically stop Microsoft using BD technology.

In-fact if anything they wouldn't stop it.. because it's one of those things you can hold over another company at big game events like E3/TGS/GDC.

This all said, Microsoft will NEVER replace the internal drive.
Reason for this is quite simple, currenly ALL Microsoft Xbox 360 units released will ALL run anything released for the format. Sure a few games state requiring HD (which unlike what many believe(d) actually stands for Hard Disk, and was only required when the 64MB Memory Unit was the only one available)

Microsoft's stance on the 360 has always been no matter the package you purchase you're technically buying the same machine, not something cut-down.

This all said, Microsoft ARE as-in not a rumour, there WILL BE a Blu-ray add-on drive released in Holiday 2008 to replace the current HD-DVD drive; which are currently being lowered in price many places in order to get rid of stock.

Microsoft had said from the start that, although they believed that the HD-DVD format would win; they didn't want the consumers to be forced to have the option of one of the HD-formats at their own cost.

I personally felt it was a good stance, and still do. They did mention they firmly believed that DVD would be more than enough for "next-generation" games. I also firmly feel this is the case.

So far we've seen a handful of PS3 titles utilising the extra space of the BD only to find very similar image quality and game length. I've yet to really hear anyone complain about Blue Dragon or Lost Odessy both coming on 3+ DVDs, and wished they were only one disc.

I never heard this complaint from people who used the GameCube where lots of games were multiple discs. Just isn't a big deal for gamers to get up and change a disc ever 10-15hours of gameplay... never has been, doubt it ever will be.

Then on the flip side you have a monumentally huge game like Mass Effect fitting on a single DVD, which blows away many other titles for gameplay length and content!

If I start to see titles getting shorter due to disc space, then I might agree that DVD has run it's course and the 360 being tied to it is a bad thing; but I've yet to see anything do that.

We'll just have to wait to see say when an FPS either is half the length of a PS3 version or comes on multiple discs when I will agree that the extra space of BD for games doesn't simply make developers lazy.

It will also have to come from a studio outside of Japan who seem to not believe in compression. As the only games I currently have that are multi-disc basically are Japanese-RPGs

Still people would also have to proove that gamers are actually to lazy to move 10ft to change a disc. As we've been doing it for over a decade now, really don't see a problem.

Hell I have some PS2 games that are up-to 5 DVDs. Again those are from Japan though.

Van B
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Posted: 12th Mar 2008 12:27
Quote: "Yeah...but my way uses the useless "silent letter" function of the English language."


Com <> Comb
Buffe <> Buffet

Those 'silent' letters change the pronunciation of the words completely, so they are far from useless .

A better example might be Colour, and Color, the U is pretty much useless in that case, but usually the silent letters are not really silent at all.


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Jeku
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 03:30
Quote: "What do you mean by 'soared'?"


http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36428/113/


Osiris
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 04:01
Quote: "Buffe <> Buffet"


Haha I say those the same.

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You will be dearly missed.
Phaelax
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 06:21
So now that everyone is thrilled about HD-Dvd being killed and BluRay wins, tell me this: What do you think the likely-hood is of Sony dropping prices anytime soon without having any competition?


Jeku
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 06:55
None--- in fact they were raised, according to the link I posted.


tha_rami
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 08:32
Thanks, Jeku .


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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 10:21
I didn't post this article before and it was a while since I read it, can't find it now. Anyway, I think it was someone from Sony saying that BD-players will not drop below $299 this year but we should see $199 players next year.

Basically, right now BD is selling a lot and the companies want to make up for development costs etc. As production increases prices will drop. This is the normal pattern for all new products.

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Zappo
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 15:59 Edited at: 13th Mar 2008 16:01
Quote: "http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36428/113/"

Have a look at the value of the dollar compared to the Yen. The dollar has gone down compared to the Yen, the Euro and the UK Pound, so this is probably the reason for the price increase in the US. I haven't seen any price increase here in the UK, but sadly no price drop yet either (I expect for the reasons DA gave).
For a graph of the last three months, see:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDJPY=X&t=3m&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=


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tha_rami
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 16:04
Well, the Euro price went up. Its simple as that, I double checked, and the price for the same BD player has gone up 17% in the last two weeks.


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Roxas
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 17:59
No Blu-Ray for XBox!

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Zappo
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 18:53 Edited at: 13th Mar 2008 18:57
Well, I won't be shopping at your store then

EDIT: Incidentally, it appears MS will not be making a Blu-Ray add-on for the 360:
http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSN1224707720080313
Aaron Greenberg, group product manager for Xbox 360 said, "Xbox is not currently in talks with Sony or the Blu-ray Association to integrate Blu-ray into the Xbox experience".


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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 19:23
Windows will get first party drivers for BD though.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 23:03
Can't see that happening
Would be a stupid move for Sony to sell BluRay after spending so much to kill off HDDVD

Jeku
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Posted: 13th Mar 2008 23:49 Edited at: 13th Mar 2008 23:51
Quote: "Would be a stupid move for Sony to sell BluRay after spending so much to kill off HDDVD"


That makes no sense

Anyways, I don't think it's a big deal for MS not to make a Blu-Ray add-on. Hello, this is a videogame machine and shouldn't be a movie player as a first-priority. Let's have MS focus on making their 360s *stable* first. If you put sugar on your crap it still takes like crap in the end.

I mean, my PS3 is primarily a Blu-Ray player, and a game machine second. I would hate if my 360 turned into something like that. As long as my 360 is still alive (4th one and counting), it's doing what it's supposed to do (play games).

Meanwhile if you're a videophile and haven't bought an HD movie player yet, there's no reason NOT to get a PS3 now.


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