Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Concerning Game Design Schools

Author
Message
David Carson
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Oct 2007
Location: Frontlines of some sci-fi war
Posted: 15th Mar 2008 20:47
I'm a Junior in HS and I've been searching for a good Game Design college to go to. So far I've read reviews of FullSail University, Collins College, UAT, and the game institute and all are very negative. As far as I can tell, people have paid these schools up to $40,000 a semester to learn what they already knew. It is a logical fact that most professional game devs today became what they are by simply learning the stuff on their own. As far as I'm concerned, I think it's best for me not to spend thousands to recieve a piece of paper that says I'm qualified, but instead ditch college, and start making great games using DBPro right now. I mean, DBPro can make a pretty good lookin game if you put enough work into it, right? (I don't have DBPro yet) I'm passionate about making games, I love doin it, but I don't want to get scammed by society. What do you think?

Halo 1 was revolutionary, Halo 2 was revolutionary, Halo 3 was... a mixture of Halo 1 and 2. That's just sad.
SunnyKatt
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Sep 2006
Location: USA
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 01:56
Not sure, but if you do become a full-blown professional, you'll probobly be using C++.

greenlig
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 02:07
The piece of paper is becoming more and more important. Sure, you may have the skills and the drive, but the industry has changed a lot over the past 10-15 years. Gone are the days when you got hired because you could draw well. It's very hard to get into the industry now without the pre-requisite "3-5 years of industry experience". You'd have to go in in as QA or something similar to get anywhere without some type of formal training.

Go to Uni/college. Its worth it.

Greenlig

Blender3D - GIMP - WINXP - DBPro
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 05:41
First of all, you're not gonna make a living off DBP. No counter arguments, please.

If you want to get into games, get a computer science degree like programmers here have. It's solid and you don't run the risk of getting jacked by private institutions pretending to be hip and edgy while looking to financially rape students who want to get into the industry. The same students who are impressed with the hip and edgy ads promising a rock star life similar to that of CliffyB or Miyamoto or that creepy guy behind Metal Gear Solid.

I am not a programmer, but based on the wisdom I recieved from real programmers when I too wanted to be a game dev rockstar, it's very hard to break into the industry on a self-taught level at this age.

Your situation is kinda similar to mine, involving Graphic Design. Went to a school where you pay monkey money and learn things you could've learned messing around on your computer at home, only to enter an over saturated industry several years later, broke and still behind with the latest trends and technology.

So yeah, go to school, or, be really REALLY talented.


Formerly known as Megaton Cat
Osiris
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: Robbinsdale, MN
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 06:35
Well the school I am going to is teaching us a little of everything first, then letting us choose what we want, I.E. Programming, Modeling, Sound, etc. So, when we go to get a job we can say "Well i'm good at programming but I can also model (or whatever)". that way we will seem more flexible.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 06:39
Quote: "So, when we go to get a job we can say "Well i'm good at programming but I can also model (or whatever)". that way we will seem more flexible."


So what are you applying for?

Formerly known as Megaton Cat
Zombie 20
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Nov 2006
Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 06:59
So wait, I'm accepted to UAT but I haven't set up a date yet, should I say bust on that school and find a smaller institution for comp science? The only thing I personally want to do is code, I love it, its fun to do, but I lack the assets to practice it in spare time.

So, comp science degree over UAT,Collins,DeVry?


Coffee coffee coffee coffee coffee coffee cappacino, JAVA!
Sid Sinister
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2005
Location:
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 07:25
I recently posted about 'degree anxiety' as well. I'm going into computer animation and I'm getting my degree at a school that, well, isn't going to be recognized by anyone who reads my resume unless they happen to be from that area lol.

The thing is though, I'm still going to be learning the same software and the same concepts as someone from full sail and UAT does. But what I really need to work hard on is to be better than them out of the gate. If I can knock the socks of my instructors, pimp them for their industry contacts and then rock the hiring managers face off with my resume, then I don't really have to worry about anything. To them, as long as your work is displayed nicely, your good at what you do and you have that 'piece of paper' then your good to go.

That 'piece of paper' is much more than saying you know how to do something though. It also tells your employer that you can work towards goals, can meet deadlines, have a higher education, have been formally taught, and can follow directions.

Not only that, but if something falls through with getting into the industry (which is hard in and of itself), then you have a Bachelor of Science to fall back on. A BOS is a degree that rounds you out pretty well and makes you very marketable to any type of field relating to it. You could probably get into a job where you'll be coding medical instruments instead of video games. It's that versatile.

I recommend saving your dollars and going to a lesser known school and spend your time and energy into building a sweet portfolio.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Osiris
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: Robbinsdale, MN
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 07:31
Quote: "So what are you applying for?"

Dunno yet. I don't know what I am interested in.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 08:41 Edited at: 16th Mar 2008 08:43
Quote: "So, comp science degree over UAT,Collins,DeVry?"


Yes, yes, and yes.

Just imagine how many resumes EA, Rockstar, Microsoft etc. receive every day. I'm guessing hundreds when you include online resumes. I have absolutely no doubt that if you're going for a programming position, they will immediately discard all those who do not have the piece of paper degree.

I don't like to be elitist and say those game design schools are crap, because you will always hear stories of grads from Digipen creating awesome games like Portal and getting hired by Valve. Those are the exception to the rule. That is like winning the lottery. Get your comp sci or equivalent degree, and do your games on the side to build up your portfolio, and good things will come.

Over the years at my job I've asked the other software engineers their schooling and 99% of them have their computer degrees. Two of them had Physics and Math degrees.


David Carson
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Oct 2007
Location: Frontlines of some sci-fi war
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 12:25
I'm not gonna do coding; I think modeling, environment modeling, and level editor is where I want to be. What I realy hate most about colleges is that you have to take other classes along with what you want, like math and literature. I want what fullsail has to offer: just the stuff you want. Is there any way I can get around having to learn more math, I really want HS to be the end of it.

Halo 1 was revolutionary, Halo 2 was revolutionary, Halo 3 was... a mixture of Halo 1 and 2. That's just sad.
Jess T
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Sep 2003
Location: Over There... Kablam!
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 15:45
Quote: "What I realy hate most about colleges is that you have to take other classes along with what you want, like math and literature. I want what fullsail has to offer: just the stuff you want. Is there any way I can get around having to learn more math"


Haha.
If you don't like Math, then you're in the wrong field.

Everything we do revolves around math.
Sure, you can get away with not understanding the underlying concepts of it all, but if you do, you're head and shoulders above the rest!

Nintendo DS & Dominos :: DS Dominos
http://jt0.org
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 18:39
Quote: "Dunno yet. I don't know what I am interested in."


So you're obviously not just gonna go to school for "a bunch of stuff" and then tell employers you can do this or that and attempt to sound like you have an advantage over someone who's a real qualified programmer or a real skilled modeller.

Formerly known as Megaton Cat
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 21:17
I'm not sure how much math is involved with modelling --- is there any?

Also, if you're interested in programming *and* art there is always the Tech Artist route, which a lot of game companies hire.


Osiris
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: Robbinsdale, MN
Posted: 16th Mar 2008 21:32
Quote: "So you're obviously not just gonna go to school for "a bunch of stuff" and then tell employers you can do this or that and attempt to sound like you have an advantage over someone who's a real qualified programmer or a real skilled modeller."


You missed my point didnt you?

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 17th Mar 2008 02:42
Your point was trying to claim that going to school and doing a mix of things will somehow fair to your advantage against someone who went to school to learn how to do one thing well.

A company is either gonna hire a dude to do their game models, or a dude to write their code.

Formerly known as Megaton Cat
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 17th Mar 2008 02:55 Edited at: 17th Mar 2008 02:56
I think Jeku would have a pretty good grasp of what type of people companies like to hire, and I'd have to agree with him. It's been my experience in other less specialized fields that the broader your skillset the better.

Of course, I'm not in that field so it could be different.

Also, if you're a jack of all trades but master of none, they ya, of course you won't look as good as someone who is skilled in one field.

You can have more than one skillset though


Hurray for teh logd!
Osiris
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: Robbinsdale, MN
Posted: 17th Mar 2008 03:14
Quote: "Your point was trying to claim that going to school and doing a mix of things will somehow fair to your advantage against someone who went to school to learn how to do one thing well."


No, my point was the school is exposing you to various things like modeling and programming. But in the end you choose one thing you like and go further into that, but even though you may be pretty good at programming, you can still model pretty well or do other things. They are doing this for down the road, if we want or can become a team leader we can better lead. I wasn't trying to say that they are trying to make jack of all trades people.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
Venge
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Sep 2006
Location: Iowa
Posted: 17th Mar 2008 03:14 Edited at: 17th Mar 2008 03:14
Yes. You gotta increase your skillz or you'll never get in the hiscores!

Seriously though, I plan to go to college for Animation but at the moment I'm grinding my way through a "Programming Role-Playing Games with DirectX 9" book. You never know if a company will be in dire need of a modeller AND a programmer but can only afford to hire one more person.

There are over 100 billion galaxies in our observable universe, each containing up to a trillion stars.

Feeling small yet?
greenlig
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posted: 17th Mar 2008 03:33
Technical Artists are in high demand, at least in Australia they are. A friend of mine at Pandemic is a technical artist and lectures at my Uni. He said it's the right field to go into if you want to be guaranteed a job. There's a real need for them. He was trained as an artist, but now does a lot of tools coding. That was also backed up with me by one of the lead coders at Chrome. He said that if you can sit between the artists and the coders, your invaluable.

Interesting job it does seem.

Greenlig

Blender3D - GIMP - WINXP - DBPro
Zombie 20
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Nov 2006
Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 17th Mar 2008 06:30
jeku- thanks a bunch, i need a school change then.


Coffee coffee coffee coffee coffee coffee cappacino, JAVA!
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 17th Mar 2008 08:58
My friend, who is an interface designer where I work, has a computer science degree. He is one of those rare types that is kickass at user interface design and 2D art, and at the same time can program in assembly. That is *rare*.


Zombie 20
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Nov 2006
Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 17th Mar 2008 09:35
c++ is still industry standard right? I would love to learn some asm though.


Coffee coffee coffee coffee coffee coffee cappacino, JAVA!
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 17th Mar 2008 20:56
C++ is still industry standard for console and PC games, yes. Java is industry standard for mobile games.


Beast E Gargoyle
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Feb 2007
Location: Sunny San Diego, CA
Posted: 20th Mar 2008 03:53 Edited at: 20th Mar 2008 03:58
@David Carson- if your still only a junior go right now and sign up for post secondary at college it's free college for a year! I'm personally going to college to learn to code in C++. I know DBP and html now I want to learn C++.
Edit: Or if you wanted to be really awesome you could join my game studio. My friend and I are running it. We lack a 3d modeller, but can only pay light payments to character modellers because were just starting out(btw i'm serious, if u were wondering). Check out my sig it has my game The Last Great Swordsmen that's going to be a commercial game.
All the best to you also,
Beastegargoyle

Streets of Rage the best 3d beat em up ever check out the wip on apollo forums!
The Last Great Swordsmen Wip here http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=124414&b=19
Antidote
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Mar 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posted: 20th Mar 2008 04:06
I'm a senior in high school and I'm starting a comp. sci. major next year at UNC Charlotte. The university offers game programming courses as well as what's required for my BS and I'll have time to work on my personal portfolio as well. I figure this is my best bet, however, I have a friend who is doing a similar thing except he's going into computer engineering instead.

Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 20th Mar 2008 11:06
David Carson:
I've avoided this topic for a while (time constraints) and I don't wanna bother reading every post. I just want you to figure out what kind of game designer you want to be. It's not going to be easy to become a pure game designer as there go so many more of every other role per designer.

The easiest way is probably as a designer/programmer, it's also a very good thing for a game designer to understand how game programming works or to code up your own prototypes. Most (or all?) famous game designers are designer/programmers, this is from back in the days where one or two guys made a game. This is not needed today as the game designer and the lead programmer does not have to be the same person any more. You may start your own company as a lead programmer if you can find an artist or two to work with.

You can also go the route as an artist, then art director (AD) and then become a game designer. As a game designer you must love to write design documents and going the route as a writer is probably also a good idea, especially if you want to be a pure game designer. It's not going to be easy to pitch in a game design document though. You can also go in as a level designer, these have often been hired from fans making maps or mods to existing games. A level designer have the easiest way to show off their skills.

Check out the book "Game design theory and practice" by Richard Rouse III. This book is being used in design classes around here. It's a great book, although a bit aging the same principles have not changed.

[center]

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-20 02:39:20
Your offset time is: 2024-11-20 02:39:20