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Geek Culture / Drummers: What sort of gear do you prefer?

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 17th Mar 2008 23:47 Edited at: 17th Mar 2008 23:48
Ever since I posted that thread about my old band a few days ago, I've been wrestling with the idea of starting a new band as a casual thing. So yesterday, I blew the dust off of my old drum kit, a 5-piece Ludwig, to see what sort of shape it's in. The verdict is tragic. The wooden shell of the bass drum is warped well beyond repair. My Mapex hats stand, with a history of being problematic, doesn't move up or down anymore. The chain on my DW5000 bass drum pedal is somehow broken. One of my mounted toms is cracked. Long story short, my drumkit is officially dead, and now it needs to get replaced!

I've decided to get a Ludwig Accent 5-Piece Power Drum Set this spring or early summer. Ludwig drums are by far my favorite. They have that thunderous, booming sound that's also warm and almost milky (if that makes sense). And when you decide to go quieter, they have that jazzy warm tone I love. For heads, I'll use Aquarian Performance II's on the batter sides, and Remos (maybe ambassadors) on the resonant sides. Thats how I had my last Ludwig set up, heads-wise. I'm going to replace the stock hardware with DW stuff... a DW5000 bass drum pedal, a DW 5500L Lightweight 3-Leg Hi-Hat Stand, and a couple of DW5700 cymbal stands. I was wrong about my cymbal setup in the other thread, I opened the bag and looked, and if my memory were a benchmark, people would say 28 "is the new 95." I actually have:

Paiste 3000 20" Ride
Sabian B8Pro 18" Medium Crash (on the left, I use it as a crash/ ride)
Sabian AA Sound Control Crash (15")
Sabian B8Pro 14" Hats

I might replace my cymbals, slowly over time anyway, with a complete set of Paiste 2002 cymbals. I'm starting to fall out of love with Sabian... I dunno, watching that video again, I remember thinking the Paiste had the best sound of all of them. So I'll most likely end up getting:

Paiste 2002 Sound Edge Hi-Hats (15")
Paiste 2002 22" Heavy Ride (22")
Paiste 2002 Crash Cymbal (18")
Paiste 2002 Series Thin Crash Cymbal (16")
Paiste 2002 Crash Cymbal (15")

Not that I'm trying to emulate John Bonham or anything, with the Ludwig/ Paiste setup, I just love how those 2002's sound. I'm pretty much a minimalist drummer... I don't like having too many things in front of me, lol. I'm quite content with a five piece, a single bass drum pedal, and a relatively small cymbal setup. So anyway, I had a few questions for you drummers out there. What sort of drums do you like, and how many pieces do you prefer? What cymbals are you into? What about hardware? And elaboration in answers is more than welcome. I've been out of drumming for such a long time (I haven't played since 2003!) that some of my old loyalties are starting to fade, so I'm wondering what you guys like. Come on then, sway me lol.

FredP
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Posted: 17th Mar 2008 23:54
Nice setup.I miss the old days when I used to play the drums...

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AaronG
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 00:59
Yeah, Sabian's are really nice. Paiste's aren't necessarily better, just more expensive.

The (Sabian, I think) Raptor series is extremely nice.

Got a pearl pop snare the other day and it broke...lol.


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Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 05:11
well the drummer in our band has the 2002 from ages ago, there like 20years old i think. They sound really good, i myself only have Z-Series zilgans.

i recommend getting the paiste's (but i like zilgan also so maybe some of those?)


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sp3ng
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 08:14
ive only just started lessons at the beginning of this year an im looking around for drumkits, i currently have my eye on a Pearl 6pc forum kit (what a name coincidence) worth $1599 AUD and being sold for $999 with a deal that includes 30% of a Zildjian Planet Z cymbal pack (sold at $279 AUD without the discount) and includes:
14" Hi Hats
16" Crash
20" Ride


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Veron
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 08:57
Sabian cymbals are easily the best, I honestly can't play properly without them. :\

That's a pretty nice setup though, but i'm getting tired of replacing snare skiks now because I ripped the brand new skin on my snare, and I didn't even hit it that hard.

Sounds great that you're making a band again, it's good fun.


Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 11:19
Quote: "Sabian cymbals are easily the best, I honestly can't play properly without them. :\"


Sorry But LOL!

i disagree with u there, i think they are the 3rd best.

1.Paiste or Zilgan
2.Paiste or Zilgan
3.Sabian


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Veron
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 11:43 Edited at: 18th Mar 2008 11:44
Ehh, i've never tried Paiste so I can't really comment on them, but Zilgan... No comment.


sp3ng
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 12:47
arrrgggghhh its zildjian!!!!!!


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Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 13:36
lol, i like the name most of all sif a name with Z as the 1st letter isnt cool


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sp3ng
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 14:33
but i agree paiste are probly the best

all i know is joey jordison uses them lol he is teh drum master


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 15:26
It all comes down to a matter of personal taste I think. Paiste's have a washy, brilliant sound with fast response and long sustain. My Paiste 3000 heavy ride is a proper beast, the sort of ride you can whack away at and it's so heavy it barely moves, if it moves at all. And if you stick the bell good and hard it sounds like a gong, lol. And being made in 1990, it's older than some of the people on these forums, lol. Paistes are made from a special bronze that's normally used in manufacturing called "CuSn8 alloy," so without question they can outlast most other cymbals.

Sabians on the other hand have a sharper (but not faster) response with more sustain than Zildjians (but less than Paistes), and more volume than the Zildjians or Paistes. They tend to be brighter and lighter in weight than Zildjians. So if you play hard rock, metal, or punk, you'd probably want Sabians for their strong attack values.

Zildjians have faster response and less sustain in most of their brands, with less sharpness. They don't really "cut" when you hit them, if that makes sense. They're usually a bit darker and dryer in tone, the obvious exception being the Zildjian K's, which imo is their best line. As I understand it, Sabian was founded by the son of the Zildjian guy in a family fued, and so the Sabian HH series and Zildjian K series are virtually identical. I might be wrong about that though.

Quote: "all i know is joey jordison uses them lol he is teh drum master"

I've never heard of him, but I'm pretty sure I can safely disagree lol. John Bonham of Led Zeppelin is by far the best drummer that I've ever heard, with Tim "Herb" Alexander of Primus taking a distant second place. Paiste's are arguably the most successful brand of cymbals, and yet somehow they aren't the most popular lol. John Bonham of Led Zeppelin, Stewart Copeland of The Police, Phil Collins of Genesis, Kieth Moon of The Who, that Van Halen guy (I always mix up the Van Halen family lol), they all use Paistes .

Quote: "That's a pretty nice setup though, but i'm getting tired of replacing snare skiks now because I ripped the brand new skin on my snare, and I didn't even hit it that hard"

What heads are you using? I used to use Remos but they don't last that long, and Evans just don't sound that great to me personally. I found Aquarian heads in the late 1990's and never looked back, the Performance II's are my favorites. Give them a try . My floor tom is still in good shape, with the Aquarian Performance II head I put on it back in 2001 lol. Even after being stored for that long, it's still in tune! So yeah, trust me, give Aquarian a shot, you'll thank me lol.

So what sort of kits do you guys play, or did you used to play?

My first drumkit came out of the basement of a friend's house. She had this old drumset down there, covered with dust and whatnot. I paid $25 for it with allowance money (I was about twelve years old) and brought it home one piece at a time, lol. I set it up and played the crap out of it, teaching myself how to play over the course of a year or so, and then my brother's friend Jack came over to see how I was coming along. That's when I found out I had a vintage 1967 Slingerland drumkit!!! I restored it, learning a lot about how drums are built during that process, but sold it knowing I'd destroy it if I kept playing on it. When I was 16 I got my first Ludwig kit, and then when I was 20 I got my third kit, another Ludwig, and that's the one in those videos I posted before. So this will be my fourth drumkit lol. Maybe this time I'll be able to keep it in good condition for a while . I came dangerously close to making a switch to Premier drums in the past week or so, but yeah, I have to get the Ludwig hehe.

Kevin Picone
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 15:38
Matt,

For pedals, I use these, Iron-Cobra-Jr I actually prefer them over the (Iron Cobra and the Eliminators

For a Hihat stand, I'm using the Tama HH905 Iron Cobra Lever-Glide Hi-Hat Cymbal Stand

Cymbal wise i'm still running the paiste 2002 (20inch ride) and sound reflector combination (14 hits, 16 &18). And my current kit is a Tama bitsa. Toms are just rock star pro series, kick drum swingstar and artstar maple snare. It's all getting a bit long in the tooth now. The newest drum is the snare which would have to be 13/14 years old... erm


Quote: " Ludwig Accent 5-Piece Power Drum Set"


The only thing to cautious of is the tom mounts. From memory, Ludwig/Tama mounts use the plastic ball inside for movement. Which means that if/when the balls get a groove in it (nice pun? ) toms tend to slide and sit in the groove. The heavier the worse problem, particular if the kit is getting a moved a lot.

Personally, i'd be temped to change to a even config and toss the 13inch tom. So 10,12,16 toms. 12/13 combos just sound like mud out of the front.

FredP
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 18:44
Quote: "John Bonham of Led Zeppelin is by far the best drummer that I've ever heard"


Absolutely.Nobody comes even close.Jason Bonham (his son) is about the closest you're going to find...a chip off the old block,so to speak.I still can't bleieve Plant turned down all those millions of bucks for a reunion tour...wish I could afford to turn down millions of dollars...heck,I wish I could afford to turn down $20...lol.
John Bonham is,without a doubt,the greatest drummer to ever pick up a pair of sticks.People can debate about who the greatest singer or guitar player is until the cows come home.
Bonham was and still is the greatest drummer ever in my book.
If you ever have the chance to watch the Song Remains the Same (I am sure they have it on DVD by now...I have it on one of those ancient VVHS tapes...There are time's when Bonham is playing the drums so fast it looks like a blur while he is going crazy on those drums...looks like he's in fast fowrard while everybody else is going normal speed.
I always preferred Paiste cymbals myself.Always seemed to have that "feel" when you hit them with a stick.Gave me a just right type feel when I whacked them.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 21:00
Quote: "The only thing to cautious of is the tom mounts. From memory, Ludwig/Tama mounts use the plastic ball inside for movement. Which means that if/when the balls get a groove in it (nice pun? ) toms tend to slide and sit in the groove. The heavier the worse problem, particular if the kit is getting a moved a lot."

That's one of the problems with my current Ludwig, a Rocker kit, the mounted tom brackets wore out from a few years of playing and several more of storage, and the wood around the bracket mounts is all worn out now (from the bass drum's warping), so all-in-all the whole kit is dead . I never knew the Tamas had the same problem, I've heard of trouble with the snare clutches on their drums from one friend.

Quote: "12/13 combos just sound like mud out of the front."

That's good advice, I hadn't thought of that. Maybe I'll ditch one of the mounted toms for a smaller size, and get the 14x14 floor tom (if they sell it in whatever color I choose of course). I prefer rolling down to floor toms anyway, so my ride gets to see more action, lol. I'm left-handed but use the typical right-handed configuration, so I tend to use a big 18" crash as a ride and my Paiste 3000 gets little, if any play. Maybe I'll do something radical hehe, put my ride on the left next to or above my hats (if they'll fit in there), that could work .

Quote: "If you ever have the chance to watch the Song Remains the Same (I am sure they have it on DVD by now...I have it on one of those ancient VVHS tapes...There are time's when Bonham is playing the drums so fast it looks like a blur while he is going crazy on those drums...looks like he's in fast fowrard while everybody else is going normal speed."

Absolutely! When I mentioned Bonham earlier, that was the first thing to pop into my head. During Whole Lotta Love, Dazed and Confused, and (quite obviously) Moby Dick, you can see the camera lens shattering to keep up, lol. I've never had formal drum lessons... literally everything, or at least 95% of what I know about drumming came from watching that movie! I spent my whole life trying to duplicate his speed on the bass drum. I've yet to see a drummer with a double bass pedal, or two independent bass drums, come close to matching his jaw-dropping triplets. My only problem with that movie is that they cut away to show Bonzo playing Snooker/ Billiards and driving race cars... I don't care about that stuff, I want to see him ripping up that Ludwig Vistalite kit!

(and on a side note, the mini-movie during The Rain Song, of all the members of Led Zeppelin, Robert Plant is the very last I'd imagine slaying murderous hordes in a castle, lol).

Inspire
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Posted: 19th Mar 2008 00:41 Edited at: 19th Mar 2008 00:41
I like having a large drumset. As far as I know, I have the largest drumset where I live...you wouldn't mind if I posted pictures, would ya?

I have 40 year old solid maple set...rockin' with an old Speed King. Fastest pedal I've ever played on, though I do have a Tama double bass pedal for the heavier stuff. Don't go with the DW 5000 pedal, Matt, I used to own one, and they are terribly slow.

Also, I don't think John Bonham is that great...I can play most of what he does, and I know people who are better than him (in my opinion at least).

Matt Rock
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Posted: 19th Mar 2008 03:24
See, I can completely tear that arguement about Bonham down, hehe. Bonham was completely self taught, and accomplished more in his lifetime in terms of learning than most anyone on this planet has with full lessons. He's faster on a bass drum with a single foot than anyone I've ever heard who uses two bass drums or a double pedal. And his solos literally set the benchmark for all solos following him. Besides jazz and swing/ big band, you never really heard drum solos, especially not in rock music. John Bonham and Kieth Moon literally made it "cool" to do said solos. And let's face it, style-wise, no one compares. Anyone can throw their sticks on the floor and hit their toms with their hands, but the day I see someone do it as fast, as precise, or quite simply as good as John Bonham... well, that day won't come, lol. Sure, people can do what he did, but if he didn't do it in the first place, no one would be doing it today. Since his death in 1980, we've seen 28 years of copycats, but there's only ever been one Bonzo .

I used to use the Ludwig Speed King until I found the DW5000. With lighter tension and a new mallet they can seriously rip... in that thread with the videos, if you watch the song "Shakedown," you can see my bass drum triplets near the end of the video... that's only one pedal hehe, a DW5000 . I dunno, the speed kings are heavy to me, I think the DW has greater tension range. Depends on how you tune it and what style you're playing though I suppose.

Definitely post pictures btw, I'd love to see that kit! I absolutely love the old Ludwig maples, much better (imo anyway) than their vistalites. I don't want my kit to look pretty, I want it to sound good, lol.

Inspire
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Posted: 19th Mar 2008 04:12
I honestly know someone personally who is almost as fast as Bonham single foot...almost.

I'm stickin with the Speed King, I've been using that thing as long as I have played drums.

Anywho, here ya go.




AaronG
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Posted: 19th Mar 2008 04:23
Wow, that's nice.


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 19th Mar 2008 20:24
That's a monster! My problem is, when I get too many things in front of me I tend to over-roll lol. With a kit like that I'd be going nuts on every bridge . I'm completely self-taught so I tend to make up names for stuff lol, but I do what I call "stutter triplets," where my left hand does a mini roll on the snare, my right hand does one hit on the snare or a tom, and I close it out with a bass hit. I'm sure there's an actual name for that lol, but stutter triplet sounds cool . Anyway, with a kit like that, I'd not no where to go next, haha. Absolutely beautiful kit!

What I'd kill to find is a tom like your fourth one over, like a small floor tom on a snare stand. I guess I could try putting a 14x14 on a really low snare stand, that could work, although I'm not sure how high that'd get. I can't wait to get this new kit and show pictures, won't be for a while though, I won't be getting this stuff until later into the spring or early summer . Unless I find a briefcase with $3k in it lol.

Kevin Picone
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Posted: 19th Mar 2008 21:57
Quote: " That's one of the problems with my current Ludwig, a Rocker kit, the mounted tom brackets wore out from a few years of playing and several more of storage, and the wood around the bracket mounts is all worn out now (from the bass drum's warping), so all-in-all the whole kit is dead . I never knew the Tamas had the same problem, I've heard of trouble with the snare clutches on their drums from one friend."


Prolly. While working in the shop, the most common issue were stripped lugs.


Quote: " Maybe I'll ditch one of the mounted toms for a smaller size, and get the 14x14 floor tom (if they sell it in whatever color I choose of course). I prefer rolling down to floor toms anyway, so my ride gets to see more action, lol. I'm left-handed but use the typical right-handed configuration, so I tend to use a big 18" crash as a ride and my Paiste 3000 gets little, if any play. Maybe I'll do something radical hehe, put my ride on the left next to or above my hats (if they'll fit in there), that could work ."


Interesting, was wondering if you were left handed. A lot of right handed players lead with their left had during grooves (or layered patterns). So initially i'd assumed you were the same, but then noticed you riding off a crash the left hand also. Which did make me wonder. Sort of explains why you don't use the rack toms as much either. Assuming you play single strokes (lrlrlrlrlrlrlrlrlr or rlrlrlrlrlrlr) left handed also? If so, the inevitable left /over/under right problem occurs if your move clock wise around the kit (off the left hand) - anti clock wise is fine though. Those kind issues can be overcome with mixed stickings though.

Which reminds me of ping pong lick you sometimes see in solos






Quote: "Bonham"


Bonham was certainly a pivotal (benchmark) player in that landscape and someone who certainly influenced a generation of players. But I wouldn't necessarily say he's the benchmark today.


Quote: ""stutter triplets,""


probably a drag, perhaps a ruff.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 21st Mar 2008 20:51
Quote: "Assuming you play single strokes (lrlrlrlrlrlrlrlrlr or rlrlrlrlrlrlr) left handed also? If so, the inevitable left /over/under right problem occurs if your move clock wise around the kit (off the left hand) - anti clock wise is fine though. Those kind issues can be overcome with mixed stickings though. "

Yeah, those videos don't do my personal "style" much justice hehe, During rolls, depending on where I'm going, I often go rlrl and roll in quads from the left mounted to the floor. I'm terrible with my roll timing though, I hammer out quads rediculously fast (too fast) and speed up down the line, as you can see in the song "Iron Me." So you end up getting a really short quads roll that throws everyone else off when I'm coming out of it and back into a normal beat.

Quote: "Bonham was certainly a pivotal (benchmark) player in that landscape and someone who certainly influenced a generation of players. But I wouldn't necessarily say he's the benchmark today."

I dunno, what I loved about Bonham was that he was openly willing to experiment. I can't stand "metronome drummers," like Carter Beuford or Neil Pert, they don't get into a groove so much as they keep a beat, as complicated as said beats may be. And come on, with the Timpani and gong on stage, and other various bits of concert and world percussion, in personal style alone I think he's the best .

sp3ng
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 13:00
I got my first kit today (the Pearl Forum kit with a bonus 10" mounted Tom) i'll post pics tomorrow hopefully


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Inspire
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Posted: 24th Mar 2008 23:34
Congrats! Welcome to the club.

Matt Rock
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 00:16
That's awesome! What sort of cymbals are you going to use? Also, I recommend you swap out the heads at your earliest convenience, usually with a new kit the heads are fairly horrible, although I've never owned a Pearl so maybe they're different. I'm an avid Aquarian fan, Evans heads and Remos are also popular, depends on your play style and the sound you're going for though

sp3ng
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 08:57 Edited at: 25th Mar 2008 14:33
all the heads are Pearl as well as the cymbals (18" crash/ride and 14"hi-hat)

so its all factory at the moment

when i get around to it ill buy some new heads but these ones work for now

EDIT: First Pic attached
(as attachment for the sake of not stretching the thread over to the right (large photo))

EDIT EDIT: I also got a free Pearl B70W boom stand which is in the box on the couch until i get another cymbal to put on it


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sp3ng
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Posted: 25th Mar 2008 11:39
second pic (with muffler pads)


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 26th Mar 2008 00:42
Very nice, that's awesome! Yeah, slap some new heads on her (batter side first, then resonant heads later, after you get a feel for what sort of tone you're going for), and some new cymbals, and you're golden . How does it sound with those Vic Firth mufflers? I've never used a cymbal with a muffler, I usually tune my toms low and use a ring on my snare, provided I don't already have a dotted batter head.

sp3ng
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Posted: 26th Mar 2008 03:47
the drums sound depressed with the mufflers

nah, they all just sound lower in tone and a lot quieter, the hi hat mute is the only one that doesn't work as well as the others


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sp3ng
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Posted: 26th Mar 2008 10:28 Edited at: 26th Mar 2008 12:49
i dont know if this is meant to happen, but my hi hat keeps tilting as i play and the bottom one ends up jutting out beneath the top one

also it sometimes make a clicking type sound and feels as though its just fallen past a screw thread when i lift my foot off the pedal (i think thats whats happening)

it may be beacuse im putting too much pressure on the pedal, but any less and i get the ring of an open hi hat

as this is my first kit, i dont really know if any of this is normal

thanks for any help

EDIT: it might also have something to do with the mute pads, but every now and again i get "buzz" when i hit the hi hat


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 26th Mar 2008 22:02
I'm not familiar with Pearl hardware, I always use the stock Ludwig gear or I replace it with DW stuff (except the hats stand on my last kit, which was a Mapex stand). Are you whacking the hats really hard? also, how tight is the clutch on the top hat? These are both factors that could be doing that. It's going to happen on occasion, especially with a lot of play on the hats, but if it's a chronic issue, take a look at how tight the clutch is, or perhaps how hard you're hitting the hats. It might also be bad washers or spacers in the clutch or lower hat assemblies, I've had that problem before.

sp3ng
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Posted: 27th Mar 2008 09:31 Edited at: 27th Mar 2008 09:33
ive tried to draw what i explained

EDIT: i have the hi hat play nuts completely off, even when they are really tight it happens though, ill see if it works out


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 27th Mar 2008 21:33
So the top hat is catching on the threads? That doesn't sound right... the cymbal would have to be wrongly drilled for that to happen, and they usually test for that. Try to wiggle the top hat around inside the clutch and see if there's space. It may be that you're hitting the hats too hard. Try gently tapping them and see if you still get the "overbite" effect (well, I guess "underbite," lol). You might have to buy sleeves to space the cymbal from the clutch assembly, although I don't think the ones I linked to would work without cutting them down. And like you said earlier, it very well could be the muffler on your hats, you should probably try without that and see if it still happens.

sp3ng
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Posted: 28th Mar 2008 04:05 Edited at: 28th Mar 2008 07:28
theres a little plasticy rubbery thing on the screw for my boom stands

i could put that between the hi hat and the screw

EDIT: It doesnt fit, anyway ive tightened the hi hat play nut and its not clicky at the moment, its still underbiting a bit though and i dont think im playing that hard


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