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Geek Culture / Translation error? Spanish/English/Hebrew

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Suicidal Sledder
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Joined: 17th Aug 2004
Location: Tikrit, Iraq
Posted: 19th Mar 2008 17:54
Alright this is about the Bible but not about religion so I'm quite sure it doesn't violate the AUP.

Here's whats going on. I was reading the New Internation Version side by side with the Nueve Versión Internacional. I came to 1 Samuel 17:18 where Jesse asks David to take some food to his brother on the war front (right before "David and Goliath"). There seems to be an error here though.

The English says "Take along these ten cheeses to the commander of their unit" but the Spanish says "Lleva también estos tres quesos para el jefe del batallón." In other words three cheeses.

I have found other spanish versions of the Bible which actually say diez quesos (ten cheeses) but so far have found no english that say three cheeses.

I understand they are both derived from the original Hebrew text, but either the Hebrew says 10 or 3. Quite obviously not both. Unless in Hebrew the number for 3 is the same for the number 10?

I even asked a Hispanic pastor and he had no idea and was quite perplexed. I'm going to ask my friend that actually studies the Hebrew Bible so maybe he will have some insight. But in the meantime I just thought there would be some people on here that might take interest to something like this

Alsan
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Location: Germany - Nähe Kassel
Posted: 19th Mar 2008 18:59
Both of the German Bibles I have here (one "Einheitsübersetzung", don't know how it's called in English, maybe "general translation"?, and Luther's translation) say "zehn", which means ten.

Jeku
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 19th Mar 2008 21:33
Interesting-- I would recommend going here where you can search through 50 versions in 35 languages of the Bible


jinzai
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Location: USA
Posted: 19th Mar 2008 21:44 Edited at: 19th Mar 2008 21:46
My $10 Bible from BestBuy already has 33 languages installed, along with commentaries. You should get a Strong's Bible Concordance to help you, I think.

Hebrew numbers are a huge problem for Bible translators and scholars...hmmm, aren't there several Jewish religious groups based entirely on the use of Hebrew numbers? Isn't the Bible Code controversy almost entirely predicated on the use of Hebrew numbers in the Bible? Numbers are letters in Hebrew, btw. There aren't any separate numeric characters.

Please tell us what your friend says...I'd be entirely interested in this. Translation of the Old Testament by Gentiles is a pretty big issue, I think. I know that all of the newer versions take liberties, and that is sooooo wrong.

The New Testament is even worse, imo.
GatorHex
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Joined: 5th Apr 2005
Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 20th Mar 2008 02:44 Edited at: 20th Mar 2008 02:48
Of course all texts should be read in their original Klingon!

http://members.aol.com/JPKlingon/trans/psalm1.html



DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Jeku
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 20th Mar 2008 21:31
Well I would have more issue with this if it were something that was a fundamental difference. 3 wedges of cheese or 10 wedges of cheese isn't that big of a deal, really. I would still like to know what your friend says about this though


Seppuku Arts
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Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 20th Mar 2008 21:55
Ah so many different languages...I remember a time when it was herecy to even have the bible written in anything but Latin, if you did it, then you'd meet a pretty gruesome death - but hey it was the middle ages, stealing a turnip was enough to get you killed.

Yes translation can be problem when approaching religious texts, for one thing words can have different meanings in different languages, even if it's the correct translation of the word and of course it's easy to make a mistake if the translator isn't perfect, and there's so many things that can get lost in translation. For example even the word 'Dukkha' in Buddhism translates to suffering, when the actual word has a much wider meaning than the English.

So I suppose the original language source is always good to have on anything you're puzzled about...of course the only problem is, you'd have to be able to speak/read the language (which is probably why the 'Bible in Latin only' law didn't last long, plus the fact it was originally written in Hebrew)

Luckily the mistranslation is on the 10 wedges of cheese, if it was "Thou Shalt Kill", then it'd be a problem. In fact, if that was the case, then the little voices in my head would soon fall in love with the mistranslation.

Exit Pursued by man-bear-pig
Suicidal Sledder
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Posted: 27th Mar 2008 17:23
Alright so I FINALLY heard back from my friend. He says the original Hebrew does in fact say 10 cheeses. From what he can tell, the ONLY translation to say anything about 3 cheeses is the Nueve Version Internacional (Spanish NIV)

He says that the Hebrew numbers from 3 and 10 dont sound alike or look alike so he is pretty confused about the mistranslation. He is very curious though so he is going to look into it a little more and see what he can find out about it

And yeah I know all that stuff about how 10 cheeses or 3 won't condemn your soul to Hell but still... it's interesting to learn about these kinds of things

GatorHex
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Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 27th Mar 2008 18:00 Edited at: 27th Mar 2008 18:00
One of the worst translations of the Bible is the parting of the "Red Sea" which should be "Reed Sea" and area further north on the coast.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
5867Dude
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Posted: 27th Mar 2008 19:23
Quote: "My $10 Bible from BestBuy already has 33 languages installed, along with commentaries"

WShat we are now using virtual bibles.
Now thats a new low


Was Cool Kid
Jeku
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 27th Mar 2008 21:21
Actually I wouldn't mind having a good piece of Bible software with commentaries, etc. Would come in handy sometimes.


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