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Geek Culture / DBPro on Linux

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FieldDoc
21
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Joined: 30th May 2003
Location: London, UK
Posted: 1st Jul 2003 20:17
I have a dual booting PC (XP and Redhat 9). I am new to Linux and am trying to get into it. Just wondered if its poss to run DBPro in any way on Redhat?

P.S. Whilst i'm on the subject of cross-platform DBpro, I saw somewhere that DBPro games can be run on a PocketPc! Surely that's Bull****?!
Life is like a penis:
When it's soft you can't beat it, when it's hard you get screwed.
Shadow Robert
21
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 1st Jul 2003 20:26
Can be run on a PocketPC using WinCe 4.2+ or the new Windows Pocket ... if you get Winex you can run DBP, but don't expect grand compatibility from it.

FieldDoc
21
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Location: London, UK
Posted: 1st Jul 2003 20:35
Does WinCE 4.2+ = PocketPC 2002?
Also, how would you deal with only having a 320x240 screen?

Life is like a penis:
When it's soft you can't beat it, when it's hard you get screwed.
Shadow Robert
21
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 1st Jul 2003 22:12
you can set db & dbp to 320x240 at all colour resolutions that DirectX can handle... as WinCe 4.2+ and Windows Pocket can run DirectX9 (and the soon to be released 9.1) it technically can run DB/DBP - not that i would

Rob K
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22
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Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 1st Jul 2003 22:39 Edited at: 1st Jul 2003 22:39
I have a feeling that DX for PocketPC is very limited, I certainly don't think it supports Direct3D or anything of that nature. WineX crashed when I tried to load any DBP apps

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_103.zip
Kanzure
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Posted: 1st Jul 2003 22:53
DBP on Linux? It *may* happen, but it would require tons of coding to switch from DirectX. Expect this in a few years when TCPA comes out with Microsoft.

www.notcpa.org

~Morph/Kanzure
Rob K
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 00:44 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2003 00:44
I think that the only serious way in which that could ever happen would be if DBP was made cross-platform OpenGL, and the DLLs were compiled using a cross-platform library such as QT from Trolltech (a 2MB DLL).

At the moment, I don't think that there are enough users to justify it, although IMO, Linux is an ideal market for a DB style product because there aren't many commercial games available for it so shareware / freeware ones tend to fare better than on Windows.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_103.zip
Kanzure
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 01:12
DarkBASIC would boost Linux's economy (if any) a ton. That would make more users wanna port over, and also it means more REAL developers (not the n00bs, not the game dev companies, but the real deal).


Maybe DB Ltd should release a Linux only BASIC - IceBasic !

~Morph/Kanzure
MrTAToad
22
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 01:49
I doubt anyone there would have the technical knowledge for programming graphics etc in Linux - it would have to be given to another company...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Kanzure
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 02:00
True. Probably just modifying the source to DarkLINUX would be easier LOL...Hey, it could happen @_@....

~Morph/Kanzure
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 02:03
i don't doubt thier technical abilities, as programming using OpenGL for Linux is pretty simple - your just limited to C rather than C++, however something i would doubt is they'd be willing to put the time and effort in required for such a transition.

A big reason that DBP runs only on DirectX is because it is a complete system APi rather than just a graphics APi .. they don't have to worry about licenses nor do they have to recode sections differently for specific hardware.

if people wanted a BASIC on linux then that would be a very simple task to achieve, however what isn't such a simple task is then adding the same 3D libraries, Sound libraries, Video libraries, Controller libraries working the same way that DBP does.
Really it would take someone with some very very very good knowlages of every single form of system as well as extremely competant at working within a cross of C and Asm flawlessly to achieve a basic for Linux as well as adding the OS specifics of each individual Linux out there.

personally i'd rather see an APi like DirectX which will work under ALL of the OS's i think that would actually be far more useful to anyone than some silly basic language.

Kanzure
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 02:32
A DirectX for all OSes would be nice, but DX is designed for WINDOWS meaning...MEMORY FLAWS

~Morph/Kanzure
Rob K
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 02:53
Indeed - It would be nice to have an API like DX which was open source (therefore portable) and which had all of the most important elements to it.

"the OS specifics of each individual Linux out there."

That really isn't a problem for anything DB' sized. Even huge apps like Mozilla and OpenOffice work quite happily across most distros. I have 3 different distros (Knoppix,Mandrake, Red Hat) and have never had any problems of apps only working under one of them.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_103.zip
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 03:44
yeah but those applications actually hover over established links... OpenGL/OpenAL/OpenNetwork don't have the same setup that Dx has.

Quote: "DX is designed for WINDOWS meaning...MEMORY FLAWS"

DirectX is specifically designed for speed, everything in it is highly optimised and what you might not know is although Windows depends on it to work and it depends on a few of the core Windows functions which aren't available on other OS's, the actual bulk of it works in an independant environment.

If Microsoft ever opened DirectX itself upto to OpenSource it wouldn't be hard at all for anyone to convert it for every single system.

i don't like the idea of an OpenSource Dx Clone though, sorry but i look at all of the version of Linux and quite frankly that would kill the entire idea of it.
a freely distributed and updated DirectX Style Application APi (essentially a UDA) for all OS's managed by a single group.

the point in a single group doing it and keeping it closed, would actually be to stop compatibility issues ... i mean even OpenGL isn't actually OpenSource, SGI sort out all of the code for each of the OS's for it and other code thier cards - then you have to learn specific for each card. Imagine if there were 20versions of OpenGL essentially the same but all a little different.
Manufactures would just not develop for it at all, as they need complete compatibility and in essence would take away what makes DirectX - DirectX

indi
22
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 06:38
its easier than you think but im sworn not to say anything.

keep your eyes peeled in a few weeks

Shadow Robert
21
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 06:55
will do... though to be honest i'm not Unixes biggest fan so probably not gonna be excited about it lol

FieldDoc
21
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Location: London, UK
Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 13:06
Could you be hinting at DBPro on Linux Indi????

Boy I hope so, could ditch XP once and for all....hurrah!

(I think DB is probably the only reason I still use Windows!)

Life is like a penis:
When it's soft you can't beat it, when it's hard you get screwed.
Rob K
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Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 14:02
I can think of TWO MAJOR reasons why I still use Windows so much

1) DarkBASIC

2) Plug 'n Play

Linux' major downfall is that currently, installing / setting up hardware although usually easy, can be an absolute pain in the rear. Modems in particular are hell.

If they sort out option (2), and Wine continues to be improved, there is a small chance of a max exodus.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_103.zip
FieldDoc
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 15:02
I have to agree with (2)....took me 5 days to get my USB Alcatel to work!

Life is like a penis:
When it's soft you can't beat it, when it's hard you get screwed.
Rob K
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 15:26
Reminds you of the good old days, none of this modern "easy install" stuff - but hours of pure joy and struggle setting up numerous config files

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_103.zip
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 18:05
lol... even before Windows Plug'n'Play i've never had a problem setting up hardware

1. plug in what you wanna use...
2. use the Driver CD ...
3. poof it works
4. if that didn't do it, you delete all registries to the old driver then reboot, and repeat steps 1-3

the only thing i ever had trouble with was setting up a CDROM back when the only IDE slot for them was on the SoundBlaster 16 card, 386's tended not to want to regonise them.

personally i still see Linux/Unix as a more professional platform, there for if you need absolute speed and inch perfect memory control - oftenly for larger CGr projects in my case which can take upto 1Gb Ram just to render. But even then alot of the time i'll still just use WindowsXP or .Net just seems alot less hassel to be honest.
So many of the Linux you have to setup every single little detail, you have to setup the mode you wanna run it in, then the UI/Desktop you want to use, how it'll react, standard drivers, OpenGL&Other APi's ... just so much fart arsing around and for what?

about 5% extra speed overall & slightly better memory access, i mean peeps go on about how Windows has such bad memory setup and yet 9/10 they're still using Win98 which is like 8years old ...
XP might not have perfect memory management, but it is certainly the easiest to work around and unlike Unix based OS's you can be sure that a patch is never far away.

thats why i doubt i'll ever give up windows, it is very simple to operate i can just get on with what i want, it does what you tell it without asking for updates as it'll get them itself, the support is second to none.

sure it isn't the most perfect OS, but it is sickening to see so much Windows bashing all the time from people who arne't even using the latest version bitching they'd go to Linux if it weren't for DirectX.
Most of the time these are the same people who don't use VisualC++ for some reason which generally only makes sense to them and only programs in OpenGL instead of DirectX on principal although OGL vs Dx would be a simple Graphics battle, which to be honest Dx9 beats Ogl2 hands down in functions, speed & support but add to that Dx is more than just pure graphics.

the saying "cutting of your own nose despite your face" tends to always pop to mind. its always the younger generation too ... you notice most of the older users either use Windows exclusively else they use Windows + Unix, though still thier prefer to work majoritively within Windows ... and they're not the ones who constantly bitch about Windows setup.

[rant over]

sorry but alot of this is really getting on my tits lately, i've had 4 newbies ask me "how do i setup Linux" ... these are people that really should not be touching the OS in the first place, and as they're all from DB i have a feeling these chats about Linux over Windows are starting to give impressionable minds ideas which quite frankly are a waste of time - and i'm not sure if to help them out and let them find out for themselves, or just leave to to keep trying to figure out howto install them.

Rob K
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 19:30
"3. poof it works"

Even on Windows life isn't always that simple I'm afraid.

"Most of the time these are the same people who don't use VisualC++ for some reason which generally only makes sense to them and only programs in OpenGL instead of DirectX on principal although OGL vs Dx would be a simple Graphics battle, which to be honest Dx9 beats Ogl2 hands down in functions, speed & support "

Personally I don't use VC++ because I can't afford it (and the "learning" editions are terrible). I have to take issue with the speed and support aspects there. John Carmack still uses OGL principally because of the documentation and the fact that it is, arguably faster (mentioned in several .plan updates). The reason most people use DX is because it is an all-in-one solution, far more convenient, as you said, for the developer.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_103.zip
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2003 21:09
DirectX is an odd beastie really... i can tell you for a fact that Carmack have just never really wanted to use it and so doesn't.
But then he still prefers C to C++ ... not a bad thing his reasons are quite valid really more personal preference than either being better than the other.

However DirectX is definatly something slow, if you dont know howto use it - i mean its very simple to use and get into, but once you get into it and start getting deeper and deeper you realise the rabbit hole has so many levels its amazing.

in just the past 6months i've gone from creating a cube on a matrix which runs at 300fps straighout, to optimising that cube and setting my own vertexbuffers which improved the speed by 100fps.

out of the box Dx is a fantastic APi which although not simple to get to grips with, is an all-in-one ... and you're guarenteed greate compatibility. When it comes to speed the better you get at it, the better speed you can push from it.
i'm sure if Carmack ever did decide to use Dx for one of his projects fully, then he'd spend the time to notice that he can push similar speeds with it.

my main problem with it, is it is quite bloaty - alot of round about code drives me nuts.

MrTAToad
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Jul 2003 02:24
Mind you - I did try OpenGL programming - never did get the hang of that.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins and other exciting things - oh my, yes!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2003 04:33
can't say i'm a fan of it either... it very good for simple things, but as soon as you hit anything too complex its like you need a degree in the bloody thing.

Rob K
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2003 14:11
The main trouble with OpenGL is that it needs an update. The extensions system is very messy indeed, it would be much better if they released regular updates, like DirectX, which have these advanced features built in. That way the developer can just say "this card is DX 9.0 compatable", instead of saying "it is OpenGL 1.4 + all these extensions..."

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_103.zip
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2003 18:34
yeah but all of those extensions are from that manufacturer, which is why it is such a mess when you get into the more advanced things.

the pure setup of the language means thatit just can't ever become like Dx - you need a single body regulating the language and adapting everything, giving these other manufactures templates to work towards rather than saying make your own extras.

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