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Geek Culture / The Daggerfall Project

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Evil Star
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Posted: 18th Apr 2008 21:32
I, being a huge fan of the Elder Scrolls series, have ben trying to find a copy of The Elder Scrols II: Daggerfall for many weeks now.

After reading some articles on the Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (Wikipedia for Elder Scrolls) and coming to terms with just how huge the game was, I made it my goal to find a copy. As of this morning, thanks to ebay I now have the legendary game in my possesion after a winning heated bidding battle on ebay some days ago.

Now after learning the scope of the game, I intend to cross the game world, border to border and see how long it takes me. Bearing in mind that the game world consists of approximately 63,125 square miles, it could take weeks, even months depending on how long I play. It is said that no player has ever explored the whole landmass and visited all the towns cities and villages etc (of which there are over 15,000) and this game was released in 1996. So I'm not going to get bored due to lack of stuff to do.

So, just thought I'd inform you of my most recent investment. As a note, for every sqare mile in The Elder Srolls IV: Oblivion there are roughly 3945 in Daggerfall.

"Don't make me come down there!" -God
"I'm not a rascist...I just hate everybody" -Christian "Flake" Lorenz of Rammstein
flashing snall
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Posted: 18th Apr 2008 21:51
Wow... I was never really a fan of elder scrolls untila few weeks ago when my friends forced me to play Oblivion...

It seems though that darrerfall is even bigger though, does it lag with such a huge world?


This is my WIP, not even ready for a WIP thread yet though.http://smallgroupproductions.com/
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 18th Apr 2008 22:03
Evil Star:
How fun could each of those 15'000 villages be?

flashing snall:
Why would size ever lag? You don't see everything in the world at the same time. In Elite you travel the whole galaxy, it all took only 1 floppy. At least Elite 2 (don't know about Elite 1) had a few books to fill out the box

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 18th Apr 2008 22:33
I think the first one, arena, was even bigger. However it's really old and that makes it hard to have fun.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Apr 2008 22:53
At least you can get Arena for Free:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/downloads/downloads_games.htm

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 18th Apr 2008 23:04
Yeah, but it's a pain running dosbox and typing in several commands everytime you want to play. Worth it if you want to play.

Oolite
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Posted: 18th Apr 2008 23:08
Next to morrowind, Daggerfall is easily my favourite, just knowing how much i have at my finger tips just keeps urging me to play on.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 00:46
Quote: "Yeah, but it's a pain running dosbox and typing in several commands everytime you want to play. Worth it if you want to play."


Not if you use a DOSBox frontend. Playing with DOS box is fun, but TES Arena is a bit strange to use and more confusing. Unfortunately I've not played Daggerfall, but Morrowind is pretty damn awesome.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 00:48
I have morrowind, but it confuses me control wize (I'm used to oblivion) and I cant figure out randomly generic stuff. I will eventually though.

tha_rami
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 00:53
1. Morrowind - so much of everything!
2. Oblivion - slicker controls, better story, but so much more linear.
3. Daggerfall - lots of ground... but generic and no fun.
4. Arena - even too old for a retro like me.


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empty
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 01:02
I played Daggerfall when it came out. I found it quite boring since most of the villages/dungeons etc were computer generated they all looked pretty much the same. That sort of defeats the idea of a huge world.

Keo C
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 03:32
Quote: "Yeah, but it's a pain running dosbox and typing in several commands everytime you want to play. "

Stop being so Win95.


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Deathead
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 03:40
1.Morrowind the scenery is just vast and beautiful.
2.Oblivion great landscapes full of quests, MQ is dull and repetitive.
3.Redguard great 1 person role of Cyrus but did not have that elder scroll feeling.
4.Daggerfall Tha_rami has a valid point.
5.Arena never played it.

SunnyKatt
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 03:47 Edited at: 19th Apr 2008 03:48
I wish they made #5 as big as daggerfell and didn't care about the game size. I'd still play even if it was 100 gig...

I hate how they keep getting smaller!

RalphY
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 03:51
Quote: "Oblivion - slicker controls, better story, but so much more linear."

I always felt that Morrowind had the better story, in-fact it's one of my main reasons why I prefer Morrowind (that and the world felt much more unique/had a much better atmosphere).

Never played Daggerfall. Tried Arena when they first made it free but I couldn't get into it.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 04:30
Mwah, the Nerevar nor Dagoth Ur were nearly as impressive as story as the story of Martin. I do agree Morrowind feels moer unique and has a better atmosphere. After downloading almost 8GB of mods, I can verily claim that Morrowind is not only better than Oblivion, but a whole different class of game.


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Evil Star
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 09:38 Edited at: 19th Apr 2008 09:42
It seems we have mixed opinions on the subject. Thankfully I'm not put off by the ancient graphics or genericness of the towns.

I personally find Morrowind to currently be the best in the series because Oblivion was just lacking that otherworldly feel that Morrowind gave. Oblivion felt like running around Naw Zealand for a few hours, whereas Morrowind felt like it was another world, like the huge mushroom-like trees and creatures like the Kwama or Nix Hounds. In Oblivion you've got deer running around, doesn't feel like Tamriel.

Arena wasn't bigger than Daggerfall, but it did let you explore all nine provinces.

Oh and Deathead, nice avatar, can't wait till system get back together

"Don't make me come down there!" -God
"I'm not a rascist...I just hate everybody" -Christian "Flake" Lorenz of Rammstein
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 17:38
I bought Morrowind after enjoying Oblivion, and was very disappointed. It didn't feel as immersive; the game stopping completely every time you talk to someone killed the atmosphere. I liked the scenery a lot more. It was more varied. But the combat let the whole thing down. I couldn't hit small creatures, they were too low down. Fighting with humanoids was boring. The same attack over and over again. I walked across the terrain, saved, and then a random dragon thing killed me. I loaded, it killed me again. And again. A savegame, dead. The lack of a strong physics engine like Havok was a let down, too. I liked the content much more of Morrowind, but the engine much more of Oblivion. And yes, I thought the MQ of Oblivion was poor too.


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Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 17:46
only if they made a game with daggers size, morrowind's gameplay, and oblivions gfx

Eh, better come with a free hard drive


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 18:37
That's what I'm hoping #5 will be! But better gfx than oblivion. And oblivion gameplay (I didn't like morrowind gameplay). So pretty much a new elder scrolls with daggerfell's size.

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 18:38
This has made me want to play oblivion again. I never actually beat it. I think I got as far as when you go to that fortress on the mountain thing and yeah... I got bored. But now I have a powerful laptop, I think I'll play it on here and see if I like any better with the graphics turned up.

I've also had a hankering for Zelda: Majoras Mask and Dark Cloud 2. Good games

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 18:52
Yeah, this makes me want to play again . Come to think of it, I haven't reinstalled since my harddrive wipe a couple months ago (luckily I backed up my saves). *Goes to install Oblivion*.


Sid Sinister
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 19:16
We should have an Oblivion Contest or something! A completion race! That would be fun to do

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 21:00 Edited at: 19th Apr 2008 21:02
No. I'd win - especially if we were doing a "who's the best character race"
level 70-something, with maxed out armor rating, optional clothing that makes me 100% invisible, a custom sword and bow that fully heal me in 3 strikes whenever I hit the enemy, and a speed and acrobatics value of over 200 due to enchantments.
No cheats! Just lack of a life!!

That save game was recently corrupted a while ago and won't load. I screamed at my computer.

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 22:14
Whats a character I can play through with the most fun? I like using magic, but relish a good sword fight once in a while and lean towards stealth moves.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
tha_rami
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 23:00
I preferred Morrowinds gameplay over Oblivion's any day. If anything, I prefer the style in which you can wield a sword and cast magic at the same time in Oblivion. Luckily, there's a MW mod to do that in Morrowind. I preferred all aspects of Morrowind besides that.


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Osiris
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Posted: 19th Apr 2008 23:04
I would not play Morrowind after I played Oblivion haha. I tried but I could not figure out where to go. Thats why I think Morrowind has so many hours of game play, because it takes you so freaking long to find everything! I would easily play Morrowind if someone made like a compass mod or something lol. Otherwise it took me two hours to complete the first mission because I kept getting lost all the time.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 01:41
Oblivion and Morrowind are too small.

Though saying that, I hate the long treks, they seem to waste time - it'd feel more huge if there was more stuff in that space. I was playing Morrowind this morning and for the Mage Guild's quests, I kind of got bored of running the long distances just to progress something. I'm not a gamer who have hours to run around wide open spaces, that's why I like the Area in the Imperial City on Oblivion, all I had to do was walk in, fight, receive reward, rest, repeat. (Do the Orc Champion Mission and accept the Dark Brotherhood quest I got there)

It's nice seeing how vast and big the games are, and I suppose it leaves plenty of room for modders to come and sit down and make what they can of it. Also, apparently beyond the Mountains where Morrowind is supposed to border (on Oblivion) there's meant to be a good empty land that's accessible and probably good for modding (making your own little Morrowind I guess. )

Also, those talking about Arena, man that's too retro for me, been playing it on DOS Box, and it's not as fun - though I approve of the 'move mouse, swing sword' control.

Now, I'm itching to try Daggerfall.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
tha_rami
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 02:46
Heh, I agree with Seppuku. That's why I installed a good 8GB worth of mods for Morrowind including a teleporting libary and horseriding.


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 02:48
Quote: "teleporting libary"


Is that what those people in morrowind are reasearching nowadays? I'd think they'd be trying to stop all the monsters everywhere or something.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 02:54
All this talk has of TES has pretty much got me playing these games today, I started with Arena, then Morrowind and now Oblivion, you're all bad, bad people for giving me the gaming curse when I have essays due in!

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 04:11
hahaha, play and get sucked into the death spiral of doom! Once you die from lack of food, you will still serve me! Death is no escape! NO ESCAPE!!!

Evil Star
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Posted: 20th Apr 2008 10:42
tha_rami, what is the name of the Morrowind mod that changes the magic system to be more like Oblivions?

I finally got out of the starting dungeon in Daggerfall, my character kept on dying...but then I changed the controls to view mode so it now plays more like Morrowind on PC (You know, move the mouse to look as opposed to clicking the edge of the screen) It also seems tht XP doesn't like Daggerfall, every now and again the only direction I can move is forward, no strafing or backpedelling...I'll work around it.

"Don't make me come down there!" -God
"I'm not a rascist...I just hate everybody" -Christian "Flake" Lorenz of Rammstein
tha_rami
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Posted: 21st Apr 2008 01:24 Edited at: 21st Apr 2008 01:25
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?id=5005&view=Mods.Detail

You'll need MWSE and MWE. If you'd live nearby, I'd just hand you two DVD's with my collection of mods.


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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 21st Apr 2008 06:16
Oblivions story seemed to urgent. There was some huge thing going on that threatened to destroy everything and all that, but you were still free to wander around for months or even years before trying to stop it.

I personally prefer Morrowind, it seemed much better for various reasons.

Osiris
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Posted: 21st Apr 2008 08:22
And don't try to beat the game at level 50, the king is a wussy, it only takes one hit from a level 50 monster to kill him!

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
Evil Star
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Posted: 21st Apr 2008 18:03
tha_rami, I'd be happy to pay postage on that DVD.

But some of my current mods conflict with MWE...so I'll bookmark that link and DL it later after I have removed all mods that conflict with MWE

"Don't make me come down there!" -God
"I'm not a rascist...I just hate everybody" -Christian "Flake" Lorenz of Rammstein
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 01:02 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2008 22:35
Quote: "the game world consists of approximately 63,125 square miles"


Woah thats big! After some calculations, my next game has only

EDIT: crap! my calculations are still wrong!

draknir_
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 02:06
Oblivion with the right mods is better than Morrowind (with mods) IMHO, though its a very close! Daggerfall is only so big because it randomly generates a lot of content, though I haven't played it enough to really judge it.
Silvester
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 10:21
It doesn't matter which mods you throw into oblivion, it will stay bland and the story will not get more intresting... I became grand arena master at level 2 and have completed the main quest at level 10... After hours of being bored like hell, because all quests were similar.
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 13:01
The quests were very good in my opinon. Much much much better than the crappy generic "collect 10 of these" world of warcraft quests. Lame!

Evil Star
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 17:50
ZekeGames, How dare you bring WoW into this thread, we are talking about WRPG's (Western Role Playing Games), not feeble attempts to bring those games online (MMORPG's)

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"I'm not a rascist...I just hate everybody" -Christian "Flake" Lorenz of Rammstein
SunnyKatt
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 22:35
Sorry, SOME people are nice enough to consider wow an rpg. I just consider it "crap".

Evil Star
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 23:00
As do I

"Don't make me come down there!" -God
"I'm not a rascist...I just hate everybody" -Christian "Flake" Lorenz of Rammstein
tha_rami
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 06:43 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2008 06:44
Well, I have them burned if you're interested (they're a backup for myself if you don't want 'em). Drop me an e-mail if you want to, I can send you the full mod DVD, you should be okay with dropping them into your Morrowinds/Data Files directory. It has Necessities of Morrowind, Better Heads, Better Bodies, Infinite view distance, Oblivion-style spellcasting, Horseriding, a lot of Landscape and Quest additions, city expansions, sidestories, balance tweaks, economy tweaks, living worlds, children and elder NPC's, better lightning and much, much more. It just adds 35 seconds to loading time on a 1,66Ghz dualcore laptop with 2GB RAM.


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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 12:39
it does take a long time to travel by foot

it took me 2 hours on a horse to get from 1 town to another

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 13:05
BTW I think in morrowind its more fun and realistic to find stuff just by directions you are given and if its too long, there area always fast tavel optons in almost every settlement or if you find chamber keys, you could use teleportation chambers in dunmer stronghold ruins There is also mark/ recall spell

But one of the more fun ways to travel is jumping. Make a spell that makes you jump very high over great distances, fun way to travel

there are also silt striders, mages guild teleports, boats and stuff.

i have been playing morrowind for years and i still havent beat even half of the quests.

i am a hardcore morrowind fan.

I did play Oblivion, and it has its strong points also. really awesome combat and physics. overall quests are better written and are more fun, i played the mq once and it wasnt quite memorable like mw mq (maybe its because i plaqyed MW MQ several times)

what i didnt like about ob, is most of the dungeons looked the same even if they were orgonised differently, a few unique dungeons (like the sideways cave) but mostly they all look alike. For example, caves (yes they do look more impressive in ob) but MW caves were more uniqueley structured and had all kinds of quniue arrangements and things and unique areas You could actually tell the difference between one cave and another

also oblivion lacks underwater stuff, the niben bay is empety of life

also i liked seperate pauldrons in morrowind vs the static attached ones of OB. and seperate gaultnets.

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RalphY
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 14:10
Quote: " Infinite view distance"

Is that through MGE? How do you get it to run at a decent frame rate? Whenever I try it my frame rate drops to about 5fps, and my comp isn't exactly a bad rig (runs Oblivion on highest settings at 1920x1200 without any slowdown).

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Evil Star
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 18:02
If you havn't noticed rami, infinate view distance doesn't work in mournhold, you keep seeing patches of daedric ruin here and there...kinda like the ones on the way to Hla Oad from Seyda Neen

Anyway, I would like a list of the quest and landscape addons since I already have most of what you listed (no economy balance or horseriding)

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Soroki
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 18:09
I never cared for Oblivion as much as Morrowind. I even played Morrowind AFTER playing Oblivion and I just didn't like Oblivion over Morrowind. I remapped my controls to a more Oblivion-like control scheme, so those that say it was hard to figure out the controls for Morrowind can't use it as an excuse to dislike the game.

Graphically, yes Oblivion is superior to Morrowind. But to a true gamer, graphics shouldn't matter at all. I could care less about what the game looks like, as long as the gameplay is fun.

I enjoyed Morrowind far more than Oblivion. I am the kind of gamer that finds walking a massive landscape for hours fun, and Oblivion, although big, was just tightly packed. Everything is so close together. Morrowind takes hours to walk across(I've been lost in Molag Amur before^^) The gameplay is just more fun somehow. Oblivion is very combat-heavy. Quests seemed a bit boring in Oblivion too. Morrowind gave a sense of wonder and amazement at the world and you truly felt like you were in a different world.

Oblivion looks....like a typical place on Earth. There is nothing really redeeming about Cyrodil. The various Ayleid(spelling? I haven't played in a long while) Ruins were cool for a while too. Oblivion just seems generic. A typical RPG game in first person view.

I've played Arena once for about five minutes because I got about 2fps for some reason. I got a better FPS playing Oblivion on an old ATI Radeon Xpress 200(horible card, glad I upgraded) before. I can't figure out why it won't run properly. I found Daggerfall on some old abandonware site but I doubt it will run on Vista.

Morrowind without mods is great fun, and with mods it's even better. Oblivion's mods seem to center mostly on weapons, armor, spell effects, and house mods. Morrowind has new landmasses, weapons, armor, more books, quests, etc. Morrowind has had more time to get mods made though, so maybe Oblivion just needs the time until it has as many as Morrowind does.

I enjoyed Morrowind more. I played it for almost three days straight when I bought it over the summer. Oblivion I put down in about a day for some reason.

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