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Geek Culture / console gaming

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Jmahmood
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 19:14
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Hello everyone,
I wanted to know something.
Which programming language do u use to make console games,Let's say games for PSP,xbox,play station.

After a week of training from professor stephen natkin i think i should focus on console gaming rather then making PC games.
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dan958
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 19:21
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Some would probely be different, but most i would think will be c++


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RUCCUS
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 19:21
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You're definitely not ready. Only a week?

Look into... Dark Console Professional.

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Van B
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 19:26
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DS development is possibly the sensible choice, for one thing it costs very little to get started, if anything at all - like you can develop in C++ on a PC then try your results in an emulator. Even the hardware to run your homebrew on the DS is very cheap, like £30. The DS has the biggest user base of any console, by a massive margin, I can see a lot more indi's making commercial products for it in the future.

There is also XNA, for the 360, but I think that's something you end up having to pay for, Microsoft can be quite strict about what you can and can't do with it.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 20:23
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Quote: "After a week of training from professor stephen natkin i think i should focus on console gaming rather then making PC games."


The theory and practice involved in making console games is virtually the same as PC games.


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GatorHex
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 02:36 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2008 02:43
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You normally buy the official development engine from the console maker which will come with a special console linked up to your PC.

They are very strict on quality normally requiring the manufacturers aproval before publish. nintendo was the strictest I think you couldn't 3rd party publish.

What narcs me about the who console busines is that they are so scared of the PC that they purpusley delay PC releases. I bet GTA4 will be 6-12 month wait after console release. :/

I had a black box for a short time to mess with a bit like this.



DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Van B
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 09:38
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Quote: "What narcs me about the who console busines is that they are so scared of the PC that they purpusley delay PC releases"


I think it boils down to money, a PC/360 title will sell 10 times as many copies on the 360 - simply because it's so easy and common to get pirate software for the PC these days. There's less and less profit in PC games and much more solid guaranteed profit on consoles.

Look at Gears of War for instance, massive success on the 360, people complain about the delay in PC release - then on the PC it pretty much bombed. GH3 as well, probably considered a major failure on the PC compared to the massive hit it is on consoles.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
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Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 16:09 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2008 16:17
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I think a SDK for PS3 was recently made available for free download. Something like XNA for PS3. Wasn't really that interested in reading about it so look it up.

You can also develop for the GP2X, the new white F-200 model have stylus support like the DS. This is a Linus based hand held and you are free to do what ever you want with it. There are even a cradle that lets you hook up 4 USB controllers and a TV to it + HDDs.

I think there are some other problems with the PC market. First of it's a few games market where a lot of people only play one or a few games for a very long time, such as WOW (and other MMOs) as well as some FPS and RTS games. The PC also suffers from bad ports; games made for consoles are rarely modified properly for PC when they are ported over, most notably is poor mouse camera support. GH3 for PC have suffered from horrible sync problems and high system requirements. PCs are also usually not placed properly for GH3 playing. GH3 also doesn't fall into the MMO, FPS and RTS categories.

[center]
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Chenak
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 17:29
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Quote: "I think it boils down to money, a PC/360 title will sell 10 times as many copies on the 360 - simply because it's so easy and common to get pirate software for the PC these days."


I think one of the reasons PC games are being pirated now is because of copy protection. Copy protection makes everything difficult to install and even more difficult to play. If they would stop bothering with crap over excessive copy protection PC games might be more popular. When I buy a game I want to beable to play it with no hassle and for it to work on the day.

If a game tells me I need to verify it online then fine, as long as the bloody thing works and doesnt take too long(which it doesn't especially when it has just been released). If it does have online verification I should also beable to not keep puting the disk in to play it. CD protection by the way is one of the main reasons a lot of oldish and some new pc games are not vista compatible, I discovered this a few days ago much to my surprise O.o. As soon as I stripped the securom copy protection from the worms 4 game it worked 100% flawlessly, even the developers couldn't figure that one out for a while.

The other of course PC hardware is too expensive, a graphics card costs as much as an xbox360

Quote: "I think a SDK for PS3 was recently made available for free download. Something like XNA for PS3"

Unfortunately the PS3 SDK is nothing like XNA. For one thing it costs over $10,000. Of course for those of us in Europe its $1000 more. Sony love ripping us off... Anyway I think the free release was just some guy leaking the SDK on the internet lol. If there is a legit free version let me know cause I wanna have a look
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MSon
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 17:44
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I hate copy protection, mainly because i buy a game, Then install nocd cracks on legal software so i dont need the CD, Seems pritty stupid

Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
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Zappo
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 18:12 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2008 18:14
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Quote: "Unfortunately the PS3 SDK is nothing like XNA. For one thing it costs over $10,000."

I think he is referring to the free PhyreEngine engine. Its cross-platform and developed by Sony for making games for the PS3, PC and even the Xbox 360 as it supports OpenGL and Direct3D. Its supposedly easier for developers because they can use standard PC tools and programming environments they are familiar with. It was used in the development of "Colin McRae: DiRT".
I don't think its been properly released yet but it was announced at GDC08. A little more info is available here.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
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monotonic
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 18:47
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I can't wait for the release of the PhyreEngine. I think this is very good of Sony to make it cross platform so that games developed with it can be played on the 360. I'm not sure what the reasoning is behind this for Sony but, I'm sure it will be of benifit to all game developers.

Microsoft have slated this in one report I read, they are saying that allowing your average bedroom coder to write code in a native language and execute it on consoles will result in people writing malicious code. Although I'm sure Sony will have some sort of protection in place.

Microsoft Windows = BSOD
Microsoft XBOX 360 = RROD
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Chenak
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 18:47
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Sweet! Cheers for the link, I'm gonna look into it more after I've finished Uni. I can't find the licensing costs though.. If there are any which I imagine there must be.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 24th Apr 2008 12:08 Edited at: 24th Apr 2008 12:10
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I think this image says it all:



Apparently flOw was made on it and you can run your games on a PS3 debug system (less then $1200).

[center]
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Chenak
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Posted: 24th Apr 2008 18:21
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The image doesn't say much, if anything. It's not exactly a full list of features. There is also nothing about licensing, I would think a commecial license will cost a lot. They say it's free to use, but not to sell products made with it.

I don't mind because it should be fun. If it costs around $1200 for using the PS3 debug system then I won't be using it for a PS3... especially if there are further licensing costs.
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Jeku
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Posted: 24th Apr 2008 22:46
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Personally I wouldn't spend too much time learning a console API unless you're doing it for practice with no intention of selling. MS has a firm grip on what goes into XBLA, so the chances of getting published are next to nothing. XNA allows you to make Windows games so that's a plus, I guess.


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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 24th Apr 2008 23:34
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Chenak:
For all systems except PC and GP2X you need some form of license to do it commercially. Also, I don't think you are free to just sell whatever you make. The console industry is far more restricted. Best option would be to develop for PC (using Phyre or XNA) or GP2X and then contact a publisher who pays the licensing fees, if your game is good enough. There are free engines for PC so that's the cheapest way, personally I would love to develop for the GP2X.

GP2X F200 is only £119.99 (All inc.) or £102.12 (Outside Europe). You even get the SDK with it. You can also download a bunch of files for it here. I don't have one but I'm tempted to buy one.


Jeku:
Phyre also allows you to develop Windows games. Perhaps MacOS and 360 as well, but so far there's only talk about 360.

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Zappo
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Posted: 25th Apr 2008 01:20
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As you say DA, I think the way to use Phyre will be to program for the PC and then once you are happy with what you have done, approach a company who has the dev kits and publishing ability. For compiling for another platform (like the PS3) its supposed to be just a matter of a recompile.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
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Deathead
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Posted: 25th Apr 2008 01:39
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Garage games are making a program called TorqueX which is basically the Torque game engine but Torquescript is C# instead of a close version of C++.


Praise the lord and pass the ammunition.
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Jeku
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Posted: 25th Apr 2008 03:12
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Quote: "For compiling for another platform (like the PS3) its supposed to be just a matter of a recompile."


If that's the case then I'd definitely consider it. If the price is decent and you can export to Windows, it would definitely be a contender.


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