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Geek Culture / Very annoying parents

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dan958
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:21 Edited at: 21st Sep 2020 20:19
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Aertic
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:25
Well, I would tell her that you're programming in basic because it may impress them, but you have unkown reasons, so I cant help much further than that.

Oolite
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:36 Edited at: 4th May 2008 23:38
EDIT: Ok a that was a bit vague. You can't post your age.

Also, your parents should support you in whatever you want to be, whether its a games designer or a fluffer. Just, get your skills up and prove them the hell wrong.

dan958
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:40 Edited at: 21st Sep 2020 20:19
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Aertic
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:41
I know, learn Basic and then make a 2d helicopter game, that'll show em who's Got a great hobby.

Oolite
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:42
Its not that simple mate, its going to take time but if you learn as much as you can as quickly as you can, you can hope to excel above the tons of wannabe games programmers, get a head start and start programming now.

dan958
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:44 Edited at: 4th May 2008 23:46
im trying to get a head start, im 400 pages through the beginner guide to dark basic proffecional programming

*edit*

I cant even make something in 2d!, i can do something in 3d because of reading things from this site, i have just started 2d in my book, so soon il have some basic knowlage soon.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:47
I have an extremely supportive family. They've always been into the idea of me making music, making games, writing, or any other creative ventures I felt like pursuing. But they did have their faults. They weren't keen on my love of football ("soccer"), and didn't go to many of my games. They thought sports were a silly career path, because you can only really be successful when you're "in your prime," whereas in music or games, you can do it until you die. Shy of Arsenal's Jens Lehmann, whose around 67 years old, most footy players retire in their mid-thirties. Also, they always sort of "primed me" towards a political career, of which I have absolutely no interest, shy of "winning" an "election" to be Supreme Chancellor of the Universe, of course . My mom is a member (or committee member) of/ in every liberal activism group you can think of in the US, lol (not literally of course, but she's in *a lot* of groups. So there was always a hint of "drop the drumsticks and run for public office" lol.

Explain to your parents that no one can accomplish (or learn) anything without experimentation. If you don't try to do something, you'll never do that something. And really, it's not like game development is an exclusive club, nor can you state that game developers don't make great money. There's a moderator here on TGC who works for a very popular and mainstream game company... he bought his wife a pair of shoes... SHOES... for $2000! Not a used car. Not a computer. Not a really fancy evening dress. Not a small Ethiopian child. But a pair of shoes. SHOES! For $2000! So yeah, if your parents fear that you can't make good money in game development, they're sadly mistaken!

I recommend you whip out a game and show it to them. Argue your case with a physical presentation. They really only want the best for you, and don't want you working toward a series of letdowns, but if you honestly love game development, if you love programming and want to make a career out of it, then finding a career in the field isn't rediculous or out of the question. It's not like you're aspiring to be an actor in Hollywood. Game development isn't "easy" to get into per se, but it's certainly not impossible. It's their job as parents to protect you from heartbreak, and it's your job as their child to prove that you don't need protection, lol.

Math89
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:47
I don't think you could have any decent job in computing at 18... At least not without a diploma. You should really go to university and try to get a degree in computer sciences.

SunnyKatt
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:48
Just tell 'em.

dan958
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:51
wow matt rock, that must have taken ages to write. 'Not a small Ethiopian child.' lol

Math89: yea i know, i ment to start ging to uni, or collage

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:52
Math has a good point there. The best job you can get in computers at 18 is operating a cash register/ "point of sale" PC in a store.

RalphY
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:57
Math89 Is right, you wont get a decent programming job at 18. Your parents are right too, you need to go to Uni and do science if you want a decent games programming job, computer science that is.

Learning DBPro is a good place to start, but if you think your going to walk out of education at 18 and get a games programming job on just that then you are living in a dream world. Sorry to shoot down your dreams but the world sucks like that.

Go to uni, do Comp Sci, learn a language like C or C# then you will be in a good position to get a job in the industry.

Oh boy! Sleep! That's when I'm a Viking! | Super Nintendo Chalmers!
David R
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:58 Edited at: 4th May 2008 23:59
In most cases, you'll want higher education (i.e. uni) in which case prior knowledge is usually irrelevant (although it's useful, it's not necessary).

If you're interested in 'getting into it', then, yeah, go for it. But most unis don't really care too much (For CompSci at least - specific game design/programming courses might)


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
dan958
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Posted: 5th May 2008 00:00
My parents didnt want me to go do computer science, they wanted me to do biology.

And im thinking about going to collage, seeing that uni is expensive

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David R
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Posted: 5th May 2008 00:03 Edited at: 5th May 2008 00:05
Quote: "My parents didnt want me to go do computer science, they wanted me to do biology."


Must have misworded my post - what I meant is that the higher education degree etc. that you should ideally do is computer science

So if you point out that computer science will get you to where you want to be, and that, like biology, it too is a science, then you'll have a lot of weight to your argument (It's a science like biology + You'll get to do what you want + it's general and can be applied beyond the realm of games/game design)

(Because compsci is the de facto higher education element for game designers/programmers)


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Matt Rock
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Posted: 5th May 2008 00:05
Is there a fine line between university and college in the UK? In the US we have Trade Schools (like Devry, they teach you specific skills), Community Colleges (great places to learn french fry cookers! lol j/k, had to do it), colleges/ universities (Bachelors through PHD's), and the ivy leagues, which are expensive versions of colleges, lol.

dan958
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Posted: 5th May 2008 00:07 Edited at: 5th May 2008 00:08
Im not really sure, you get better qualifications at uni, but you also can get the qualifications you need at collage, you can do b-tecs at collage, which are good for getting jobs

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RalphY
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Posted: 5th May 2008 00:09 Edited at: 5th May 2008 00:10
A college in the UK is for pre-university education. When you finish compulsory school you get GCSEs which are good for nothing basically and nobody cares about. Completing college will get you A-Levels which are worth something, but still wont get you that far, especially in the computing industry. Uni will get you a degree, which is pretty much required for any job in the computer games industry.

Oh boy! Sleep! That's when I'm a Viking! | Super Nintendo Chalmers!
David R
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Posted: 5th May 2008 00:10 Edited at: 5th May 2008 00:11
Quote: "Is there a fine line between university and college in the UK? "


Sort of, the word college seems to be applied to many things over here

Lots of universities are divided into colleges though (e.g. when you join/apply the university, you choose which college of that university you want, although some aren't divided into colleges). Best example is probably Oxford university which has something like 40 colleges. They're all like self-controlled 'units' inside the university. It's kind of strange if you ask me.

We also have colleges used for sixth form colleges (Sixth form is the two years in 'normal' school prior to university, so if the school you attended didn't have a 'built in' sixth form, you attend a separate college which functions as a sixth form).


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 5th May 2008 00:14 Edited at: 5th May 2008 06:02
Quote: "Is there a fine line between university and college in the UK? In the US we have Trade Schools (like Devry, they teach you specific skills), Community Colleges (great places to learn french fry cookers! lol j/k, had to do it), colleges/ universities (Bachelors through PHD's), and the ivy leagues, which are expensive versions of colleges, lol."

That's what I was wondering, here "college" and "university" are used interchangeably.

Show them these

http://ds.qj.net/2007-Game-Developer-Salary-Survey-reveals-U-S-game-industry-average-Income-of-US-73-600/pg/49/aid/118170
http://www.gamecareerguide.com/features/416/the_game_industry_salary_survey_2007.php


Aertic
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Posted: 5th May 2008 00:22
'oly cow!
thats impressive.

Matt Rock
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Posted: 5th May 2008 00:44
Awesome, I couldn't find my copy of GDMag with the salary survey in it, thanks for posting that Gil and saving me some rummaging hehe.

So college in the UK is sort of like community college in the US, at least in how it's treated. Most people who go to a community college in the US only do it for the first year or two, using it as a sort of "stepping stone" for a proper school. Although there are some people who stay in CC for a full bachelors... not sure what sort of job you can get with a community college degree though, I don't think I know anyone whose gone to one. I might be wrong, but I think you can get further with a trade school degree in the US than you can with a community college degree. That's what it seems like anyway.

Grandma
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Posted: 5th May 2008 01:23
Quote: "I have an extremely supportive family. They've always been into the idea of me making music, making games, writing, or any other creative ventures I felt like pursuing. But they did have their faults. They weren't keen on my love of football ("soccer"), and didn't go to many of my games. "


Our parents have been interchanged. Mine are completely opposite.

@ dan958

You should do what you want to do. I say put your foot down and make your stance. It's a lovely step towards independence, but give it some thought as it's a big decision.

When I was your age, I wanted to become something similar. But now at age [old], i'm much more interested in language-related stuff. I'd like to become a translator or something. Things change. So don't close the door to any opportunities.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

Making yesterdays games, today!
bitJericho
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Posted: 5th May 2008 01:28 Edited at: 5th May 2008 01:28
Quote: "They weren't keen on my love of football ("soccer"), and didn't go to many of my games. ""


Pff, that's because sports are for jocks

Just messin'.

Anyway, there was a time when I wanted to go into programming, but then I realized how crap that would be (coding for the man, and all). I'm much more into computer hardware and (prebuilt) software now, which is the career I'm pursuing at the moment. Of course, dbp will always be a beloved hobby


Hurray for teh logd!
BiggAdd
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Posted: 5th May 2008 01:40 Edited at: 5th May 2008 01:44
At the end of the day, you are the one who decides what A-Levels you want to do, then you are the one who applies for university. Your parents don't have any say.

I wanted to get into the game industry, but my parents didn't want me to do computer science, So I am currently studying Aerospace Engineering.
A computer company will most likely want proof of your intelligence. If you study through a high end degree like engineering or computer science they will take you seriously. Along the way you can learn programming and build up a portfolio.

If I can remember correctly, one of the top guys at Lionhead Studios did a degree in Electrical Engineering.

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 5th May 2008 01:55
Well, if you ever lose inspiration with your dreams bud, buy a copy of Hercules on DVD and repeatedly watch "I can go the distance".

...

Works for me!

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th May 2008 02:04
It's your choice mate, at your age it is early to decide your final career and your views change - it is usually good to keep at your strengths and things you enjoy and pursue them to see what they open up for you. You sound ambitious for the game making dream, I felt it at your age (as a possibility) because I was just starting out with DBP and I loved it - had a game plan and everything, then I tried something harder than DBP it scared me, heck some of the more complex complexes of DBP still confuse me now. But I pursued what I enjoyed most, writing and exploring ideas, now I'm studying it at university and now ancient history and ancient languages are looking mighty interesting - as my course has some of those aspects.

Your ideas might change and I bet they do, your parents shouldn't dictate your future either, it's your life and you'll need to get into something that'll make you happy at the end of the day. My nan forced my Mum into hairdressing, but my Mum wanted to study art and become an illustrator. She went to uni to study it in her mid-40s.

See where you go after A Levels (if you're not in England, until you reach 18) and see where you want to go from there - but remember what you study might not be what you become. My tutor has a degree in history and went onto studying other things for his pHd and now teaches creative writing. We humans are an indecisive bunch, so keep an open mind mate.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Drew Cameron
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Posted: 5th May 2008 02:44 Edited at: 5th May 2008 02:44
Ah, the old University effort...Or, make it on your own kid!

Took me a while but I now earn than any of my college friends. (Not zillions, but thats on the way )

The points is: you want make games man - THEN DO IT.

However it should probably be noted my parents always encouraged me to do whatever and I did get a few years rent free (i'm leaving home this year) to get myself on my feet in this way.

Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 5th May 2008 06:04
Quote: "Your parents don't have any say.

I wanted to get into the game industry, but my parents didn't want me to do computer science, So I am currently studying Aerospace Engineering."

LOL, I found that ironic .


BiggAdd
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Posted: 5th May 2008 06:10 Edited at: 5th May 2008 06:15
Heh true. Didn't realize that

Jeku
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Posted: 5th May 2008 10:36 Edited at: 5th May 2008 10:37
I've edited your age out of your posts. Just don't put your age please

If you want to be a programmer, get your comp sci or related degree. It should take just 4 years or even 3 if you can cram 7 or 8 courses a semester (not recommended ).

I've met people in the game industry who have computer engineering and even math degrees, but comp sci is probably the most common in the industry.

If you'd like to be a game designer, however, I don't believe you need a comp sci degree. I couldn't say exactly what the pre-requisites are, but since there's a lot of paperwork and planning involved in game production, I would recommend a business degree or arts degree of some kind.

You could also try ringing up some local game companies in your area and ask them for their pre-requisites. Most game companies have them listed right on their websites. Good luck


Van B
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Posted: 5th May 2008 10:37
Tell your parents that your more interested in computer science, which is what most professional programmers need.

But yeah, I remember telling my mom I could read, and her calling me a liar! - so I know how it feels .


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
Veron
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Posted: 5th May 2008 11:08
Ja, my parents always wanted me to go into Law, get a law degree, all that crap.

The result, 10 years on? I ignored them and now work in IT for a large business.

Do what you think is right - if you like IT - go for it!


Aertic
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Posted: 5th May 2008 11:39
Quote: "But yeah, I remember telling my mom I could read, and her calling me a liar! - so I know how it feels ."


Whats that about? Saying you could read???

Agent Dink
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Posted: 6th May 2008 07:42
Quote: "Well, if you ever lose inspiration with your dreams bud, buy a copy of Hercules on DVD and repeatedly watch "I can go the distance".

...

Works for me!"


For some reason I about died when I read that. That was so funny xD

Dazzag
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Posted: 6th May 2008 13:34
Mine gave away my Spectrum 48, Spectrum 128, and an Atari ST 1024 along with loads of games, all to a charity shop. Cry...

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 7th May 2008 19:55
@dan958- I have just recently turned of age to be an adult, and I'm going to college next year. I plan on attending a college that offers video game design classes. I hate to say this, but I actually after all of these years am starting to recognize why my parents were like fire and brimstone on me my whole life, so that I could use that independet strength to use it in real life/ buisness. My life has been a living niightmare with going to the worst schools possible, so now that i'm going to college, I don't feel like i'm nothing( even though my parents are against video games) and will succed in my career if I put forth all my time and effort. I wish you luck in whatever career you chose. All the best,

Beastegargoyle

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Leadwerks
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Posted: 7th May 2008 20:06 Edited at: 7th May 2008 20:09
You should apply yourself to school and study computer science. No one will ever take you seriously if you don't get a degree.

Your reasoning right now is based on what you "want" to do. I develop software, and I do things all day long that I don't want to do. About 10% of what I work on is enjoyable, and the rest is just something that has to be done.

So if you can't do what you don't want to do now and go to school, you will never get anywhere.
Deathead
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Posted: 7th May 2008 20:41
Quote: "Mine gave away my Spectrum 48, Spectrum 128, and an Atari ST 1024 along with loads of games, all to a charity shop. Cry...

Cheers"

Thats monsterous!lol


We are the cost of a world gone wrong.
dan958
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Posted: 7th May 2008 21:39
Hopefully when im in sixform doing my A-levels we actually do interesting things in ict, and actually learn a programming language like so many other schools in america do.
Our ict is so pointless, we dont learn anything...all we do is take a print screen, export it in macromedia dreamwever...EVERY single lesson for 2 years...i asked a teacher if we will every do programming, they said no becuase it is too complicated (more like the teachers dont no how!)

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Deathead
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Posted: 7th May 2008 22:14
Quote: "Our ict is so pointless, we dont learn anything...all we do is take a print screen, export it in macromedia dreamwever...EVERY single lesson for 2 years...i asked a teacher if we will every do programming, they said no becuase it is too complicated (more like the teachers dont no how!)"


Well done. School ICT doesn't teach that. Its Uni where they teach Programming.


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RUCCUS
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Posted: 7th May 2008 22:24
Why do you care what your parents want you to do? Get into the field of study you want, take the appropriate high school courses to get into a qualified computer science university (focus on computer science, not game design), get a job, earn as much money as you can to pay towards the uni, and get the rest from a student loan or if possible a scholarship if you're applicable. Pay off the loan as fast as you can while learning what you love, and screw what your parents think.

I dont see an issue. If you needed to rely on your parents for anything in the process then maybe, but really the only things your parents will be helping with are a) uni payment, which like I said you can get yourself if you work hard enough, b) shelter / food, which, assuming you have humane, sane parents that love you, this wont be an issue, and c) moral support, which you can get from your friends and yourself if your parents decide not to.

Learning Dark Basic is a good starter into the concepts of programming, but the sooner you move onto a more wide-spread language applicable to lessons you'll be learning in school, like Java, the better off you'll be. I recommend looking into BYOND (www.byond.com) as a side language to dark basic. BYOND lets you create online 2D games using an object-oriented language similar to C#, although a lot simpler. Combine Dark Basic and BYOND for a year and you'll be ready to take on a more difficult language.

Jeku
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Posted: 7th May 2008 23:25
Quote: "Why do you care what your parents want you to do?"


My guess is they're paying for his tuition


Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 8th May 2008 01:35
I'm in the 6th form atm so I don't have a voice of experience like many of the posters here, but I think the problem is:

1) You want to study to make video games.
2) Your parents don't like this

And the unforeseen but (unfortunately) important issue:

3) You need to earn enough to feed yourself etc.

2 and 3 are probably linked. Your parents presumably want you to get a "good" degree so you can get a good job. (If they want you to get a "good" degree because they just want you to as a matter of principle then their views can be largely discounted.) If you study Comp. Sci, you should be able to apply it to other jobs even if you don't get one in game design/coding, which should cover the issue of earning enough to live. So, even if taking Comp. Sci sounds like a leap of faith to reach your dream, it's at least a leap of faith with a safety net, in that you'll be able to apply it elsewhere and get yourself a job wherever. Compare this to the option of biology, which sounds as though it's less interesting to you: sure, you'll be able to get a job on it (maybe a high paying one) but if it's not what you want to do then it doesn't really hold out against another degree which can be used to get a job AND a dream (as it were).

Quote: "Hopefully when im in sixform doing my A-levels we actually do interesting things in ict, and actually learn a programming language like so many other schools in america do."

I'm in the UK so maybe this doesn't apply to you - but my IT classes are AWFUL! The class hates the teacher, and the teacher hates the class - it's getting to be like he's desperately trying to control a class of unruly first-years. On top of this, the course revolves around regurgitating definitions, many of which are in fact contradictory, and more of which need to be used in specific situations. (Eg. Applications Software is either "Software designed to carry out a specific task which would need to be done if computers didn't exist" and/or "software which can carry out several different tasks". And if you use the wrong one in the wrong place, you probably won't get any marks. )

I'm not actually a Kiwi, I just randomly thought it up one day.
flickenmaste
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Posted: 8th May 2008 02:29
lol this went from post how ur parents annoy you to go to college thread...my parents are supportive about me creating video games
Dude232
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Posted: 8th May 2008 02:51
heh one thing is that my mother doesnt even want to know about the games i make... i make some game she grins and starts her speech...

RalphY
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Posted: 8th May 2008 15:42
Little advice from someone who has been through A-Levels, take a Computing A-Level not an ICT A-Level if you want to go on to do Comp Sci. ICT is useless for Comp Sci and won't benefit you at all, whereas with computing (assuming you go to somewhere half decent) you will actually learn quite a bit which you will find useful studying Comp Sci.

That was my personal experience at least, having took computing and talking to people who took ICT instead.

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jinzai
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Posted: 8th May 2008 16:54
If trying to ensure that you make an informed and realistic choice about your education, and its impact on your choices down the road is annoying, I guess that my parents were annoying, too.

Also, count me as an annoying parent at the same time. I still think that my oldest son should have spent his money on something other than a tattoo apprenticeship, but that's just me being annoying, I suppose.

My parents were not wild about my grandiose ideas, either. When it came time for college, there was no money. I went into the military instead. I hold my military training in very high regard...I learned some really useful and interesting things, and I also worked for the military as a civilian for 5 years.

I could not buy a job in either the IT or general programming industries right now. It is more frustrating to feel qualified, and be ignored than to do a job that you might not like very well.

Do I regret not getting a degree? Oh, yeah. Everytime I take a job for minimum wage, working for someone that is younger than my wardrobe and getting nowhere fast...you bet I regret it.

I also have correspondence school, NRI Electronics Circuit Design to be precise. Graduated with highest honors! That was pretty worthless to my career, too.

You are annoyed that your parents don't see things the way you do. That's not their job. All of this talk about ignoring them is not productive. You should seek a more productive dialog with them, imo. That will indicate that you are serious more than getting emotional about it, or calling their judgement into question will. I assume that your parents truly care about you. Perhaps they are not as savvy as you'd like, but they are expressing their concern for your future well-being. Things could be far worse than that.

One last thing...you will not be able to program very far into a game without smokin' math skillz, and physics will be out of your reach, as well.

You seem like you are passionate and committed, but let me just leave you with what my Father told me long ago:

Life is like a 5#!t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less 5#!t you have to eat.

He also told me that I was as useful as a Japanese typewriter once.

He is not annoying at all, either.

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