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Geek Culture / Drinking and Driving. Should Bars and Clubs be held responsible?

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Nemesis_0_
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Joined: 26th Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: 5th May 2008 23:56
As many of you know, I am a bouncer at a nightclub in my home town. Sunday morning, a gentleman was killed while driving down our street, when he hit a pole at an estimated 120 km/h. When we eject customers from our establishment, we always make sure that they have a ride home (a friend, or a taxi), however, there is no way to be certain wether or not this person has a car at the club that they came back to get an hour later (still intoxicated), and we are not legally allowed to detain said customers if the insist on driving drunk. Infact, all you can do in Ontario, Canada is call the police if someone insists on driving while under the influence.

Alot of us are now left wondering if they will find our club responsible, and if so, will we all have jobs next weekend.

Do you think that nightclubs and bars should be held responsible for things like this?
BiggAdd
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 6th May 2008 00:06 Edited at: 6th May 2008 00:07
No. It's their own fault. Tbh I couldn't care less if they take themselves out in the process, unfortunately most of the time they end up killing innocent people.

bitJericho
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Posted: 6th May 2008 00:17
Businesses should not be the police.


Hurray for teh logd!
5Louiz
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Location: Brasil
Posted: 6th May 2008 00:28
Of course not. The only ones who can be blamed are the animals who drink and drive drunk. Blaming others is much easier:

. I started smoking because my parents and my friend smoke.
. I am fat because MacDonald's give cool toys with their fat [no pun intended] foot.
. The publicity forces me to [place irrational behaviour here]..

"Chic n' Stew", by System of a Down talks about that lack of responsibility over the lack of self control, I believe.

Here is a recent Brazilian commercial:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n4hUgSw1QAA

It says:

_ They want to prohibit the publicity of beer in Brazil.
_ As if publicity was the blamed for the irresponsible ones who drive drunk; for the criminals who sell alcohol to minors; for the cowards who practice any species of violence.
_ No. The publicity does not do that.
_ The problem is not in the liberty of expression of a majority that does respect the laws. It is in the liberty of action of a minority that violates these laws.


Cheers. Happy drinking with no driving.

Deathead
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Posted: 6th May 2008 00:44 Edited at: 6th May 2008 00:47
Quote: ""Chic n' Stew", by System of a Down talks about that lack of responsibility over the lack of self control, I believe."

No its about how corporations use differents things to get people to buy their stuff.
edit:
To answer your question, I believe the user of the beer is held responsible, even if they have the right to buy beer they should drink responsibly. And all what clubs and pubs do its sell off beer. As like workers they work to get money the more they sell the more money they get. So its the drinker who deserves the punishment.


We are the cost of a world gone wrong.
Seppuku Arts
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Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 6th May 2008 00:51
Bars and Clubs? No, not responsible at all - when I go out clubbing there's nothing there that suggests I should drink, in fact most of them promote drinking sensibly and the bouncers tend to make sure you're all right. The way I see it, ANYTHING you do when drunk is your own fault - drinking too much is a risk, hence sensible drinking must be done, hence when I drink I make sure I'm still conscious.

Also, drinking too much makes you stutter too much, spit, invade people's personal space etc. and this can really put off the girls. As I'm trying to convince this 'stud' I know, who drinks too much thinking he'll be confident enough to talk to one, but ends up just staring or yelling 'wahey hey hey', which clearly does him no good. He also was dragged back to our flat be the police because they found him flat out on an old lady's front garden. I don't see how bars and clubs are responsible for that - you can never know when a drunk person is going to be safe going out on their own, in fact I think in the case of my friend is that it was his desperation and depression in finding a girlfriend - the man should pace himself and idiotic comments he's made have been his own fault for letting himself get that way. Luckily in the case of the Police, they were good humoured about him and made sure he made it home safely.

We're all old enough to know that actions have consequences and that drinking reduces judgment, if you're going to let yourself drink that much, then it's your fault what happens next.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
5Louiz
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Location: Brasil
Posted: 6th May 2008 01:25 Edited at: 6th May 2008 01:26
Someone of my family and I almost died when she did sleep while she was driving. What do we do? Control how many hours people sleep per day? Invent a sleepometre as a source of monetary penalties? No. People need to control themselves and judge what they can and what they can not do to the health. There are many stupid things that can make one run through the risk of losing its and others' life.


Quote: "No its about how corporations use differents things to get people to buy their stuff."


What? I do not see how it could be about that. I still think that it is about people who enjoy a nice and dangerous spree intensively, and hypocritically blame advertising for collateral effects. But they always start the awesome pleasure spree over again. "I find this splendid, but I hate advertising, because it is stronger than me. Therapy fixes the effects". But you know SOAD better than me. This is just how I interpret the song.

SageTech
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Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: 6th May 2008 01:37
This is an issue thats very close to me, because ive seen first hand the kind of issues drinking, and further, driving, can lead to. My moms been arrested multiple times, most recently for a DUI, and honestly, I may be a bit biased on the issue, but heres how i I feel:

It is pure personal responsibility. Yes, the clubs and bars provide the alcohol (which may i remind you, is glorified bacterial waste), but in the end, It is their choice. In the same way we wouldn't blame fast food joints for making people fat (well, thats changing in the U.S, but for those of us that are sensible), we can only blame the alcoholic for the damage they cause.

That said, I think you should be able to detain someone who you see as a threat to others around you, as most would agree, so why would them being drunk change that? Yes, it is denying some of their civil liberties, but in a drunk state, they have the ability, as in this case, to go out and rob someone of all of theirs, including the biggest one: Life


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Peter H
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Posted: 6th May 2008 01:50
Wait....


you're a bouncer?

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
Jeku
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Posted: 6th May 2008 01:52
I don't believe bars and clubs are held responsible in Canada.

Restaurants, on the other hand, I believe are. I know in B.C. restaurants will not serve you drinks unless you also order food, and there's a drink limit as well. Most of the time they'll serve you enough to get you drunk if you're willing to pay, but technically they're responsible if you're drunk and kill somebody.


draknir_
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Posted: 6th May 2008 02:31
really Jeku? That makes no sense at all to me. Im not sure about the laws in Holland, but my personal opinion is that an individual is responsible for EVERYTHING he or she does. Brainwashing/Religion/Drugs/Advertising whatever people claim is the reason why they did something, its still down to their own actions.
Grandma
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Posted: 6th May 2008 03:09 Edited at: 6th May 2008 03:10
Life isn't binary. We can't really just put all the blame on one thing alone. Like they say on national geographic: "accidents don't just happen, they are a result of numerous events and decisions that leads up to the accident" (that was from memory, might have been different). That's why this is such a though topic.

It might have been the car, an alien UFO tried to beam him up, a dog ran across the street just in front of the car, the pole was in the middle of the road etc. It could be tons of factors involved.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 6th May 2008 03:17
in the UK you have a "reasonable duty of care to your fellow citizens" as long as it doesn't endanger your life you should stop somone endangering theirs if you know it to be so.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 6th May 2008 03:20
Anyone stupid enough to drink and drive should be responsible for their own actions, and I think that on your second DUI, your license should just be taken away.


AndrewT
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Posted: 6th May 2008 03:46 Edited at: 6th May 2008 03:51
Quote: "and I think that on your second DUI, your license should just be taken away."


Second??? I think your license should be taken away on your first DUI.

Second DUI = dealth penalty. But it has to be a slow and painful. Like, they could simply light different parts of your body on fire until you die. Starting with the eyes, then the tongue, then the eyes again if the fire has died down.

90% of statistics are completely inaccurate.
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 6th May 2008 04:18
Quote: "Second??? I think your license should be taken away on your first DUI.

Second DUI = dealth penalty. But it has to be a slow and painful. Like, they could simply light different parts of your body on fire until you die. Starting with the eyes, then the tongue, then the eyes again if the fire has died down."

Lol, I wouldn't disagree with that, but I just know that some people make stupid mistakes, but making the same one twice isn't a mistake. First DUI=license suspension for 1 year, second=for life, third=DEATH! (not really, but jail time )


draknir_
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Posted: 6th May 2008 05:47
Quote: "Quote: "and I think that on your second DUI, your license should just be taken away."

Second??? I think your license should be taken away on your first DUI.

Second DUI = dealth penalty. But it has to be a slow and painful. Like, they could simply light different parts of your body on fire until you die. Starting with the eyes, then the tongue, then the eyes again if the fire has died down."


you'd make an excellent despot
david w
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Posted: 6th May 2008 13:19
I think the drinker is the main one here who is responsible. I mean you got to conrol yourself.

I also think that the nightclub/pub is also responsible. If you keep serving drinks to this person who obviously has had to much. YOU need to STOP. Its about responsibility, why keep serving a person when you know that its too much. You can argue all day about how its the drinkers fault/problem. (and this is exactly the argument that will hold up in courts). But when it comes down to it the club/pub should know when to cut someone off.
AndrewT
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Posted: 6th May 2008 13:25
Quote: "you'd make an excellent despot "


I would.

90% of statistics are completely inaccurate.
Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 7th May 2008 18:10
Quote: "Wait....


you're a bouncer?"


yup


Anywhoo... We didn't get shut down *hooray* but we are reviewing how we run things a little.
tha_rami
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Posted: 10th May 2008 15:47
I think people committing crimes or causing accidents when drunk should be punished double instead of half under the excuse of 'reduced sensibility' or whatever it's called. Kinda like that UK law they were trying to pass classifying sex with a drunken woman as rape, even if the 'victim' agreed with everything. Bah.


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Mr Z
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Posted: 10th May 2008 19:34
The bar itself is not responsible, it is the drinker that drinks.

Quote: "I think people committing crimes or causing accidents when drunk should be punished double instead of half under the excuse of 'reduced sensibility' or whatever it's called. Kinda like that UK law they were trying to pass classifying sex with a drunken woman as rape, even if the 'victim' agreed with everything. Bah."


They are responsible for drinking, so they are responsible for what stupid stuff they do when drunk, and so they should be punished. Double sound like something that may make so people think before drinking and then get into a car.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 10th May 2008 19:37
Quote: "Drinking and Driving. Should Bars and Clubs be held responsible?"

No.

tha_rami
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Posted: 10th May 2008 21:36
Quote: "They are responsible for drinking, so they are responsible for what stupid stuff they do when drunk, and so they should be punished. Double sound like something that may make so people think before drinking and then get into a car."

Yes, it's to scare people from doing stupid things.


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