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Geek Culture / this will really suck if its going to happen

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 05:32
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http://ipower.ning.com/netneutrality

Watch this video. I am not sure if this is real or not but if it is, it will really suck

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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Osiris
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 08:06
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Yeah, I saw that. It would really be the downfall of any ISP that tried that though, I really do hope they are not THAT stupid.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 08:19
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Tallin Estonia Summer 2007

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 09:00
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Well this sucks.......

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Blobby 101
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 09:50
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surely, after that, setting up your own ISP that works the classic way would bring thousands of users away from the old mainstream companies and bring you even more money than they had before, because almost everyone would switch to get away from there service.

Your signature has been erased by a mod - 340 KB is a little big don't you think?
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Osiris
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 09:55
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How would one go about setting up an ISP anyways? Wouldn't you have to lay tons of cable and stuff? Expensive, but its not like you wouldn't have thousands of investors haha!

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 10:10
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i am sure verizon would not go this way. Also as the video mentioned, google would become obsolete. Google will probably start their own internet service, i can see that happening

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 12:25
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What would this do to things that don't use HTTP? If this really happened, I don't think it'd be a year before irritated geeks team up and make their own network. The second coming of Tim-Berners-Lee.


I fail at life. No, really.
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draknir_
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 13:10
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It would really suck, but I think that if it does happen, there will be more than enough public backlash/linux geeks who will set up some kind of freenet where we can all whine about how the man is keeping us down
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Oolite
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 14:04
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I don't see this happening or working. If they did there would be enough backlash to make them stop.
It's most likely typical internet rumour where someone mentioned something breifly like this and it exploded into some overblown conspiracy to restrict the internet.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 14:10
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Quote: "I don't see this happening or working. If they did there would be enough backlash to make them stop."


I know a lot of people who wouldn't complain. Schools, for a start. They could make their students only see what they want them to. Workplaces won't have to worry about employees browsing sites they don't want them to. About 90% of the world's teenage population won't bat an eyelid either because their only use of the internet is MyFace. I don't doubt it'll be cracked in a week though.


I fail at life. No, really.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 15:41
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I didnt watch the video (I'm at work atm) but if its about what I think its about, yeah thats the plan - just like with all other forms of media, its censored and controlled to steer perception and "your reality" to whatever they want the message to be. Why would anyone think the relatively "new" medium known as the internet would be any different.

if the video is not about this topic, then disregard my comments in the context of this thread.

[href]mod2software[/href]
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Zappo
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 16:17
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I don't see it happening. The Internet isn't 'owned' by a single body which usually means when one group says 'lets all go right' another group instantly sees that as an attack of their freedom and says 'lets all go left'. In the end everything is left open or they risk halving their audience. There would be such a loss for so many people it wouldn't make sense. Advertising companies, small businesses, Web hosting companies etc. etc. would all lose out and they won't let that happen.

This rumour probably stems from the ever increasing bandwidth usage going on. As peoples connections get quicker and more sites like YouTube and BBC iPlayer spring up, the bandwidth used is sky-rocketing. Some ISP's have already started saying the BBC should pay them towards the bandwidth used by their customers to access the HD content on iPlayer. I think the worst that will happen is that ISP's will stop their 'unlimited bandwidth' packages. In reality, most 'unlimited bandwidth' packages already have monthly restrictions in place anyway, they just hide them in the smallprint.


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Chenak
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 16:18
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Sort of, they are trying to make the internet work like a Sky TV package by limiting your websites you can visit and making you pay more to access them such as they will charge £50 a month to access sites like youtube.

I can see them trying to do this definately but I 100% know that this will not get through, any ISP that goes with this will be destroyed very quickly, here is hoping BT uses this. It was prolly their idea....
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 17:11
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If AOL can survive today, this will survive tomorrow.


I fail at life. No, really.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 17:44 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2008 17:44
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It won't happen, if it does, it'll pee people off enough to cause problems - a lot of small businesses rely on the internet - if you were to access it only through a subscription then, less people are going to access you website and your business isn't going to do well - this would mean problems. Also, not everybody will be able to afford those sort of bills, so the internet experience would be really restricted.

That's a lot of people to annoy for profits - yeah it may mean people aren't going to find it easy to get illegal pron, watch programs illegally or download programs illegally. If they wanted to do something like this, then surely it might be better to have subscriptions without having to pay for them. (I bet the money also only goes to the ISPs and not the companies with websites)

It would also mean a problem for students, we access information from about just anywhere and wikipedia is something we're not allow to reference, simply due to the potential inaccuracies (either mistakes from people, or things done on purpose...Wikipedia isn't reliable, as we all know Borat isn't the president of Kazakhstan as wikipedia once told us.)

So it wouldn't happen, unless the ISPs were stupid and didn't think about it properly first.

Quote: "They could make their students only see what they want them to. Workplaces won't have to worry about employees browsing sites they don't want them to."


They already can, the school I went to set restrictions on the internet - as well as using a system of already blocked sites - the admin also kept an eye on the computers people were using at his main computer - so if a person was on a website they shouldn't be then he would block it - hence I couldn't access TGC when I was at school (except for lunch times) It was a pain trying to goof off in lessons, so I had to get on with my work (even when I had no work to get on with)

Same for the workplace, my Dad worked at (just been made redundant from) Barclays bank and he couldn't access a number of websites, even with the laptop they let him bring home.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 18:13
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I could see this causing a huge economic depression if it went through. Like seppuku said, a lot of companies rely on the internet.

I believe it, though with the information getting out early, I don't think this will go through. The internet is a big place right now, I think this will be stopped.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 18:28 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2008 18:30
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I'm sure it's a plan that people have been discussing with each other - it seems it could be a bit of speculation. But will probably realise once they've looked at it properly it will be a bad idea - plus I'm sure enough people with objections to label it as a bad idea. If worse comes to worse, the majority shareholders in the ISP can say no can't they? (and so can the customers, boycotting the internet sounds silly, but you know people will find ways to render theISps away from business with alternatives.)

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 18:50
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Dumbest idea ever but sadly I can see this happening -_-

Who wants to start a rebel ISP? We'll be rich if this happens!

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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5867Dude
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 19:49
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If this happens I will be so p*ssed off. I have a hobby of making sites and I can't do that if this happens =(


Was cool kid
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 21:11
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Quote: "Who wants to start a rebel ISP? We'll be rich if this happens!"


Perfect idea for a smart businessman - if they go ahead with it, then rival businesses can just go "screw you, I'm getting in on the profit of your idiot mistake". Unless they pass a law on it, which means a global decision - and some of the major countries are democratic and we can just say no to the law.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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5867Dude
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 21:36 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2008 21:37
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EDIT:Nevermind. It works now!


Was cool kid
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Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 21:39
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Quote: "It's most likely typical internet rumour where someone mentioned something breifly like this and it exploded into some overblown conspiracy to restrict the internet."


Well, legislation for this is going through the House of Commons right now in Canada, so yes it's true. No, it's not just an Internet rumour


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flashing snall
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 22:01
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WOA! If this actually happens, it will be one huge depression, like BIzar guy said.


... this would be a good plot line for one of those "how the world ends" fiction storys ...


This is my WIP, not even ready for a WIP thread yet though.http://smallgroupproductions.com/
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AlexRiva
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 22:53
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How could this happen ? I mean:
1 - if the number of visible sites are restricted how can Google and Yahoo be useful anymore?
2 - the number of Internet users would decrease immediatly. I in a situation like this, would not use Internet anymore. Without so many and interesting different websites the Internet is nothing.
3 - as said before, what about Internet related business, there are millions of such big and small companies in the world, this would be really an economic breakdown.

I think this could not happen, but if it should, this would mean money rules over freedom and, in a supposedly democratic society this is UNACCEPTABLE

@Jeku: which law to restrict the Internet is under discussion now in Canada? This shocks me a lot

Visit my new website: http://www.maskedbear.com
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Grandma
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 00:34
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Quote: "I think this could not happen, but if it should, this would mean money rules over freedom and, in a supposedly democratic society this is UNACCEPTABLE"


Oh come on. Money rules over everything, the real world isn't a fairytale. Money = Power, Power = power to get more money.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

Making yesterdays games, today!
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 02:21
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Yeah, but it's probably a huge loss of money - a lot of people have invested in the internet, yet their sits not known, the only people I see breaking even is the ISPs, who will be attacked constantly, people will hate the idea, they'll protest, they'll boycott, they'll find alternative means of communication, advertisement and selling their goods, after losing a lot of money and if they manage to live without their business. And some rival will probably come up with a solution to our problems and render their restricted internet useless and thus them losing a lot of money, thus karma restores the balance.

Also, you say legislation is being passed through the house of commons, Jeku? I'm sure still means nothing, as a I'm sure a lot of legislation get there, but isn't approved. As the internet is a global thing, you'll have to get the majority to say yes to put it in favour - surely.

This 'news' at the moment seems like a bit of speculation, but of course to be taken seriously as it is a potential threat to the internet business.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 02:59
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http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/05/28/tech-netbill.html

There's a class action lawsuit against Bell Canada because they have been purposely slowing down the net for people who are using peer-to-peer services, among other things they deemed are congesting the traffic.

The NDP party is trying to pass a bill that will disallow this from happening in the future, as Bell Canada and Rogers have both been doing this for some time now.


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GatorHex
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 04:20 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2008 05:56
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I think the EU laws on price fixing would smack them hard if companies colluded to corner the internet market. I assume this is a spoof viral video because they all look like students and the contact e-mail address is videoLOL.com?

The rebel ISP is already here it's called bethere.co.uk, 3 people started laying their own cable in London and now have their own kit in most major towns in the UK. For £18 per month you can have 24mbps unlimited access across their non-BT network.

Tell them Vinnie sent you for the good stuff

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 05:45
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Quote: "For £18 per month you can have 24mbps unlimited access accross their private network. "




MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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SageTech
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 06:06
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This is scary, but think of the alternative. I don't know about countries other then the U.S, but over here we've had a few bills on the table. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't want government legislation getting any where close to the internet, because I know that its all just a slippery slope, and once something such as this is passed, whats stopping the government from restricting what can and cant be done further?

Its plain to see that whatever ISP tried this would be committing suicide. So why bother? I say keep the government away from the internet, god knows they screw everything else up...


The world is doomed...unless you >>>>>> Click Here <<<<<<
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 06:42
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I told my mom about this and even she was astounded that its possible they might try something like this. She's an average mom who blocks up the computer with filters and whatever else to protect the kids so I was slightly surprised that she absolutely against the idea.

That's a good sign by the way ^^

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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dab
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 08:10
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Quote: "1 - if the number of visible sites are restricted how can Google and Yahoo be useful anymore?"


1 of 2 possibilities.
It COULD mean the search engines will only be allowed to seach the sites that you paid for. Such as, it only searches the my space, blogger, msn etc. This still seems quite pointless since the sites all have their own search engine built in.

It could also mean that you are allowed 200 non-listed website views, which Google would operate normal, you just have to watch how many off-list websites you visit. I doubt this option too, so I really wonder what use Google and Yahoo would be, otherwise to use things like map.google.com, or docs.google.com. Perhaps even mail.google.com :/
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ionstream
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 08:17
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Rest assured this is never, ever going to happen. Microsoft and every major company that has anything to do with the internet, won't like the idea that only some users can use their products and not others.

Contrary to popular (internet) belief, people generally vote against stupid things.

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Osiris
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 08:33
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Quote: "This still seems quite pointless since the sites all have their own search engine built in."


Yeah, but they are all still mostly powered by Google haha.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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Tone Dialer
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Posted: 6th Jun 2008 01:02
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Interesting thread

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Erios
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Posted: 6th Jun 2008 04:09
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As others have mentioned, this would have to be legislated for it to mean the end of the internet. This would be the largest anti-trust movement ever, creating monopoly after monopoly. This reminds me of Palladium, the big PC-creator motion to lock up every PC so that people could not make their own software (it would have made a home PC more like a video game console). Problem is, that plans like this are clearing walking right through handfuls of laws.

Also, as to those asking about creating your own ISP, it's not that hard hard. All you have to do is make a deal with a major backbone renter (such as Global Crossing, the company that my company deals with) and then run a "loop" from the backbone to your office (the loop is trunks of fiber optic lines or equivalent. If your office has T1, T3, OC48, etc., it is the exact same setup). The price on this depends on how far you are from the office. You then need a heaping handful of IP addresses to give to your users (these basically cost nothing at all if you can go IPv6). The main issue is getting it to their homes. The normal way a small broadband ISP does this is through DSL lines, since most RBOCs (AT&T, Verizon, Qwest, etc.) have federally and state mandated laws saying that they have to lease their lines to CLECs (the smaller phone companies that offer service within the RBOC territory). It's a little bit harder than everything stated in the above, but it's not far off.

IF all else fails and legislation blocks smaller IPs from using cable or DSL lines, we can start going back to dial-up. No one can stop someone from making a phone call
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