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FPS Creator X10 / Is X10 Any Good?

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Slayer222
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 06:58
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I've been holding out on upgrading for a long time. My PC, while horribly glitched up, still runs Crysis and CoD4 no problem on decent graphics. But with my summer job (on the TGC store), I hope to get enough to take the sting outta the new PC price-tag. So, big question, is X10 any good, to help clarify, here's what I'm looking for different from X9: Great performance, almost impossible to lag within reason (100 characters per level, hundreds of entities, thousands of segments) with no lag or freezes, Allies and smarter AI that will chase you through the level while dodging pits and traps, taking cover, retreating if hurt enough and also, nice effects like bloom, ragdoll, 3D sprite effects and more. Also, a STABLE game and editor is a very big want for me. If X10 can live up to this, then I may add a new PC to my wishlist.

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Scurvy Lobster
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 15:08 Edited at: 19th Jun 2008 17:56
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X10 kicks behind on X9 imo but you will be making games for yourself. According to the latest statistics from Valve on Steam users only 16% of gamers use Windows Vista. Out of this group they still need to have a decent DX10 compatible gfx card. This narrows your X10 games audience down to somewhere between 1 and 10% of who can play your games made with FPSC X9 instead.

My FPSC X10 is largely unused due to this fact. It is a solid game making piece of software with loads of features that X9 lacks (without any of the mods at least) but too few can play your games.
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Uthink
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 15:20 Edited at: 20th Jun 2008 01:04
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I'm going to be brutally honest and suggest that X10 is not for you. And neither is X9. From the sound of the requirements you've listed, you are going to be disappointed. Having said that, I think you're expectations are entirely too high. With those expectations you should actually be looking to spend a minimum of $500usd/$320eur just for software.

Keep in mind you are a developer (so to speak) and the very operating system you work on is full of bug, lag, and usability issues. It's not unreasonable to consider that the software you run on top of that will have similar issues. Add to the fact that X10 is really a 1.0 product. Software is never mature in it's first release.

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
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Slayer222
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 19:29
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Those expectations aren't high. Many Quake 2 mods feature them and more. Now, I KNOW it's a commercial game, bu it is also ten years old and will run great on a 98. In my eyes, its a better engine than X10 with some mods, however, it also lacks the license of FPSC. All I want is what was promised to us with FPSC. I hope you meant X9 there, and I love X9, but it's really getting outdated. As for development time and gamers hardware/software, there lies my plan. Game dev is undoubtedly time consuming, but after say two years, you have the game done and the PC you did it on is outdated, Vista is the new XP with everyone whining about hating X11, etc. I'd easily part with 500 buck to get a nice stable, game engine, I don't need the ID Tech 4 engine, just something that has a hope of competing with 2005 games by the year 2010 if that makes any sense to you

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shadow651
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 20:04 Edited at: 19th Jun 2008 20:08
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Quote: "X90"

wow they came out with X90 already TGC are quick lol

Quote: "Great performance"

Its has a more improved performance then x9 but it isn't impossible to lag, you cant go over board with everything although i have tried the 100 eneimes(actually more) it was something like 70vs70(allies) and it wasn't too laggy(bear in mind this was with the original release so it could be better now)

Quote: "Allies and smarter AI"

well they are smarter but they still aren't smart

Quote: "effects like bloom, ragdoll, 3D sprite effects and more"

no problems with them

Quote: "a STABLE game and editor"

It is stable i dont remember getting any errors with it for a while

Quote: "X11"

when i was sleeping did M$ make X11-90(even quicker then tgc

hope that helps


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 20:05
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Question:

I downloaded the tech demo that was released, it was a little slow in places (average FPS 20) of course this was an early demo and I'm sure optimisations have been made, would anybody be able to comment on performance between the tech demo and the final release?

I use a GeForce 9500M 512mb ram, and my system gets a rating of 4.5 under Vista's performance guide.


Also, what's it like for bugs? I've heard a number of complaints in terms of bugs in FPSC X9 and experienced a couple when downloading one or two games made in it (Notably MISoft's Pod9 and one of the members at Black Draco Games' FPS demo)


I'm tempted to buy FPSX 10 once my rent has gone in, but DBPro stills does me great service.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Slayer222
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 20:35
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Quote: "hope that helps"
It did, thanks. I am talking max 80 enemies and 20 allies per level.

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Fruitless CRUNK
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 22:40 Edited at: 19th Jun 2008 22:41
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ok I have relesed a game with X10 and to tell you the truth everything except the AI( Wich I ended up rewriting) was good. Althought I would like to point out, POST YOU GAME IN THE X10 FOURM IF YOU WANT TO SELL IT! I gave my game out to my CSS clan cause I knew they had Vista and X10. I'm thinking about releasing it to the fourm. Also you might want to stick to stalk midea.

BOOM!!!!!! HEAD SHOT!!!
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Slayer222
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 22:54
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Who's midea and why would I want to stalk her?

Seriously though, what happened to that game you were making? And I could get my entities and segments working, believe me FPSC X10 will be a cakewalk after ID Tech engine.

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Holloguts
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 23:18
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I've just reverted back to X9 due to the frustration of the bugs in X10. Nearly every step you take you spend more time trying to get around the bugs than actually doing what the software was intended to do; help you create games quickly. I won't list all the bugs (too many), but I finally had enough when I placed three characters in an area, three old type cell doors (static) and another cell door Dynamic and a small table in a hallway. The result was the three characters were walking around with a table on their heads surrounded by a sci-fi door. It was funny, but the sci-fi door wasn't even in the game, and never had been (yes I clean out the binaries). There are too many problems with dynamic items. I used a washbasin from the model pack 2 (x10 ready version). it was ok dynamic, but make it static and walk into it and the screen goes blue with the health slowly reducing. I know when TGC work on it X10 will be good software, but at the moment it just isn't solid enough to create a decent game with other than a few unpopulated rooms (furniture wise) and placing 100 or so characters in to shoot at.

I have come to believe from all the problems I have seen that there are issues caused by the instancing of dynamic objects if you have the same objects elsewhere static. Although, 1 table in a hallway appearing on top of 3 different characters in different room was strange as there was only one instance of the table on the map (don't know where the door came from).

For me, I have returned to using X9. I look forward to X10 getting a few updates to make it useful. Until then, I wont look at it.


And I didn't even mention everything is too big and wide and there is no scaling. Still, you can shoot 100 or so characters until you get bored and return to X9.

The sooner X9 is updated to V2 and stable I am sure X10 will be worked on and it will benefit from the fixes X9 has received.

Not exactly a glowing reference for X10, but I can only go off experience with the software.
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Uthink
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 01:18
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I hope everyone who's posted in this thread and others have posted their "bugs" in the X10 Bug thread. I really haven't experienced any major bugs. Granted I'm far from finishing my game. But I know I can use the stock media and put together several levels for a complete game without any problems.

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
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Slayer222
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 04:38
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Jeez, this is what I'm scared of. Spend 650+ dollars for a new PC I only half need to find out that X10 is a piece. I personally would leave everything dynamic if you have GPU instancing, good FPS, dynamic shadows and AI that can't shoot through dynamic objects. But at any rate, X10 seems badly supported to X10 users and FPSC badly supported by X9 users. This will be a hard decision. I hope they come out with an X10 store and "X10 Free" soon.

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Slayer222
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 21:05
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OUBLE POST:

Triple post, ultra post, monster post, holy ----!

UT2004 anyone?

Anyhow, in all seriousness, here are the specs of the PC I'm thinking of getting: ATI X1900 512MB, AMD +4400 2.2Ghz Dual core, 2GB of RAM. 550W power supply and a 200GB hard-drive. Will this run X10 decently if I get Vista? Obviously, no one can say a certain answer, but what do you think?

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5867Dude
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 22:35
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Quote: "ATI X1900 512MB"

Is that a DX10 card?
I thought only ATI 2000+ are X10
Also ATI has some problems with X10 according to users
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Uthink
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 23:47
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We know the definition of "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome".

What's the definition of asking the same questions over and over again?

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
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Slayer222
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 00:00
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5867Dude: It's DX9, but doesn't vista patch your hardware to DX10 or something?

Uthink: no clue, you are too cryptic for me, ever considered being a lawyer?

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Uthink
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 02:09
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Einstein said that doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome was the definition of insanity.

We keep seeing posts asking "Will this hardware work", even though the hardware requirements are quite clear.

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 02:16
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FPSC X10 is very very good.

Its arguable to suggest X10 is ultimately what X9 should have been but I think people need to get over this idea of Vista and directx10 being things which they won't consider migrating to.

- FPSC X10 and FPSC X9 work perfectly under Microsoft Vista. You can still develop FPSC games for X9 users whilst still benefiting from the new and better features X10 provides.

- Anyone that says Vista is a worse operating system than XP simply hasn't bothered to customise it to their requirements. Its faster than XP and unless your trying to get a 10 year old hardware device to work with it you shouldn't have any problems.

- The only reason people havent migrated to Vista yet is money or current lack of hardware specification to support it which again is money. All new PC's sold now come with Vista installed, not XP.

- Any true gamer will aim to experience games in the best possible way and will have a directx10 card. If your target audience is XP users with Ati 3D rage pro cards installed then your not serious about gaming and should be fairly happy with whatever your able to produce with FPSC X9.

There's not much point in having X9 vs X10 discussions. If its viable for you to upgrade to X10 now then do so.

In a years time XP will no longer be supported and people will start having to deal with that and stop being too lazy to figure out how to get the best from their operating system.
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Slayer222
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 03:27
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Quote: "We keep seeing posts asking "Will this hardware work", even though the hardware requirements are quite clear."
I hoped mine would and was 90% sure, but apparently it helps to know that my GPU is totally junk if I wanna run FPSC X10.

As for "true gamers" even they have budget limits...

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 13:50
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Quote: "Quote: "X90"
wow they came out with X90 already TGC are quick lol"


Haven't you heard? Lee coded a Tima Machine in DBP.......

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