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Geek Culture / Question regarding image copyrights

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Destrugter 1
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 03:22
Ok, IDK if this is the right board this should be in...if it isn't then I'm really sorry I couldn't find the right board. Ok now for my question.

I am remaking a game, so I am collecting all the sprites (by myself I can't find a sprite sheet already made). So these images are copyrighted, and I was wondering if there was a way to get around the copyright and claim them as my own. Not to use the direct image but, can I maybe change the color or something and claim it as my own? The reason I'm wondering is because I want to use these images in the game I'm making, and I was going to add a Level Editor function to it and add my own...so I can't say "all the images are mine" because some of them belong to nintendo.

If none of that made sense please tell me so I can explain it better.

http://www.runenerds.com - a RuneScape community that is growing. (New community)
bitJericho
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 03:34
Quote: "Not to use the direct image but, can I maybe change the color or something and claim it as my own?"


Absolutely not. You can draw the images from scratch to sort of look like a character. But if they are to imitate the original characters, then you're still breaking copyright law.

Your best bet is to design something, story and images, from scratch.


Hurray for teh logd!
Destrugter 1
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 03:36
Well I know I can use the images in my game as long as I give them their copyright notice, but thanks anyway, I guess I'll just say which images are Nintendo's and which are mine.

http://www.runenerds.com - a RuneScape community that is growing. (New community)
bitJericho
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 03:52
Quote: "Well I know I can use the images in my game as long as I give them their copyright notice, but thanks anyway, I guess I'll just say which images are Nintendo's and which are mine."


No you can't unless you get permission from the copyright holder.


Hurray for teh logd!
Insanity Complex
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 03:59
Quote: "Well I know I can use the images in my game as long as I give them their copyright notice, but thanks anyway, I guess I'll just say which images are Nintendo's and which are mine."


Quote: "No you can't unless you get permission from the copyright holder."


Pretty sure this only applies if he's selling it


Getting between me and my morning coffee is suicide...
bitJericho
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 04:21
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

Nope, sorry. I know it sucks, but that's just how it is. There's lots of public domain images you could use, or use crappy graphics that you create. If you're game's fun, most people will forgive (or even enjoy) crappy graphics.


Hurray for teh logd!
Destrugter 1
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 04:32
Ok, I just sent an email to Nintendo asking for permission to use their images. So I have another question. If I make a level editor, and use my own images can I claim those as my own or no since they are being used in Nintendo's game?

http://www.runenerds.com - a RuneScape community that is growing. (New community)
dark coder
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 04:54
Isn't it obvious? Of course you can't say you made them if you steal them from their games/tools, you can make your own from scratch based on their images(i.e. as reference and not copy/pasting it), as long as you don't use any of their trademarked names/brands you should be fine. Look at racing games that don't have licences from car companies, they have ones that look very similar to existing models but lack the correct names/badges etc.

Destrugter 1
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:07
No, I mean im making a level editor for the game. If I DRAW the extra images to use in the level editor am I allowed to claim those, not the copyrighted ones.

http://www.runenerds.com - a RuneScape community that is growing. (New community)
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 07:10
If you made the image, it's yours.

If you didn't make the image, then it's owned by somebody else.

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 17:20
It doesn't make sense for a company to mix their images with yours. If your images are crappy, it's going to look like they made it since you obviously can't spell out in the beginning every single sprite that is theirs or yours. Whether or not that is going to be the law/reason behind them not letting you or not, I don't know, but I'd make it easier on yourself and design something from the ground up. You don't want to get a notice in the email your getting sued for everything your worth.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 17:54
Learn a bit of sprite drawing technique, and make your own. I wouldn't think that they would have any problem if you used their sprites for the movements, as long as the result was completely different. I wrote a simple program in DB that draws lines to make a walking animation.


I fail at life. No, really.
BatVink
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 19:25
1. You can't use the original images
2. You can't use the original images even if you declare the owner without their permission
3. You can't use derivates of the original image (e.g you change the colours)
4. You can't make close copies of their images, although I think that would be a trademark issue rather than copyright.

IanM
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 20:50
Number 4 is correct, but because it's still copyright infringment.

Trademarks are a completely different thing and are meant for consumer protection (although some would have everyone believe otherwise and lump them under 'Intellectual property' banner)

Destrugter 1
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 22:30
Quote: "
It doesn't make sense for a company to mix their images with yours. If your images are crappy, it's going to look like they made it since you obviously can't spell out in the beginning every single sprite that is theirs or yours. Whether or not that is going to be the law/reason behind them not letting you or not, I don't know, but I'd make it easier on yourself and design something from the ground up. You don't want to get a notice in the email your getting sued for everything your worth.
"


I'm not that bad of an artist on the computer. And plus I can tell everyone in the beginning (actually in the credits) which sprites are mine bacause I can just say something like:

"All images that don't appear in the original game belong to me, and all that do appear in the game belong to Nintendo" then put Nintendo's copyright right beneath that.

http://www.runenerds.com - a RuneScape community that is growing. (New community)
Jeku
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 22:37
Yes, you can write whatever you'd like, but until you get permission from Nintendo, they can still shut down your development and sue you (if they choose).

You can't just rip assets and think you're ok with a little disclaimer.


Destrugter 1
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 22:39
Quote: "
Yes, you can write whatever you'd like, but until you get permission from Nintendo, they can still shut down your development and sue you (if they choose).

You can't just rip assets and think you're ok with a little disclaimer.
"


If you read what I posted above I sent them an email asking if I can use all the media in the original game (sounds and images), I told them I don't plan on selling it, and I'll put whatever copyright notice, anywhere as many times as they want.

http://www.runenerds.com - a RuneScape community that is growing. (New community)
bitJericho
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 22:48
It'll be interesting to hear what they say. Be sure to let us know when they write back.


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Destrugter 1
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 22:56 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2008 10:08
Ok, I hope they do let me do it...its a game from the 80s, I would think they wouldn't have a problem with it.


EDIT:
I guess I can't use Nintendo's images and stuff...I got the email back and this is what it states.

Quote: "
Hello,

We appreciate the interest in Nintendo and in all our video game products. To
us, it represents a great sign of success and recognition of the Nintendo brand.


"Nintendo" is a registered trademark of Nintendo of America Inc. Nintendo owns
extensive intellectual property rights in all of its products, including video
game systems, game titles, characters, game software, graphics, artwork, and
screen shots. Nintendo also retains rights in content on Nintendo's websites,
including articles, artwork, screen shots and other files. Trademarks and
copyrights for third-party games and characters are owned by the companies which
market or license those products.

While we are grateful for all the requests for permission to use Nintendo
properties, we are not able to grant such requests. We receive thousands of
requests and do not have adequate staffing to review them all. Therefore, our
general policy is to decline requests for permission for the use of Nintendo
properties.

Although we are unable to grant permission, use of Nintendo's properties without
formal permission by Nintendo may still be allowed under the relevant laws of
the particular jurisdiction involved. Thus, we encourage you to seek your own
legal counsel if you have any questions about whether your particular proposed
use is permitted without Nintendo's authorization. Nintendo cannot provide
legal advice.
"


tha_rami
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 15:14
Wow, that was a pretty warm and friendly automated reply.


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
MSon
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 15:44 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2008 15:48
Whenever i make a remake, i use copywrited meterial due to the fact that i cant use 3D Modeling Programmes successfuly, im terrable at Graphics and i cant make in game music, as an example take my newest project, im using a Ripped Hud from WipeOut Fusion, Models from WipeOut Pure/Pulse (PSP Versions), Music from origional WipeOut and WipeOut 2097, and Track Textures taken from WipeOut XL, Why, I Programme as a Hobbie, I dont do Graphic, Music or Modeling, I Programme, This is why I rarly post anythink about games i've made unless im stuck because everytime i do post people tend to complaine on here about CopyWrite to me.

I think this is how it is with lots of people who programme as a hobbie i mean you can have an excellently programmed game, but unless you top that with excellent Graphics/Models/Music/Sound Effects, ect then the visual appeal will automatically drop.

Strange how I, a fan of the WipeOut Series wanting to make a "Remake" for non profit, without any intension of removing business from the CopyWrite Holder is still considered to be the one doing the illegal act, As someone posted on these forums recently to me, The fact that my "remake" has "WipeOut" in the the name instantly makes it illegal as the name as general theme of the game are both copywrited.

The way people have always explained this to me is if your game is based on another copywrited game, then its proberley illegal so although you can make the game, you would not be permitted to post it anywhere, although the likleyhood of a company chasing you for this is remote.

This always confuses me as there always seems to be "Retro Compo's" on this forum somewhere, so technically every entry to those compo's unknowingly broke copywrite law.

As for your question about the image copywrited by Nintendo, what you should legally do is Contact Nintendo yourself stating your intension to use a copywritted image, why, and any justtification as to why they should let you, Failing that make your own textures, (Not a choice for me).

Sorry for the rant, but this is a subject which annoise me.

Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
bitJericho
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 17:32
Ye, now in all honesty nintendo coming after you for a tool to a game that was made in the 80s, if it's obviously nintendo's artwork, and it doesn't go about giving nintendo a bad name, well I doubt they would ever care.


Hurray for teh logd!
Destrugter 1
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 19:12
What bugs me is the fact that they say I should seek a lawyer (they don't exactly say lawyer but it is intended) to see if I do have the rights to do this. Why would I want to spend a couple hundred dollars to talk to a lawyer about my rights to develope and give out for free a great game...

I don't want to cause trouble with Nintendo but can they own copyrights over the levels? I guess I'm going to have to draw the sprites on my own but no big deal. If they don't/can't own the way the levels are then it may save my semi-horrible graphics.

Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2008 00:24
Quote: "but can they own copyrights over the levels?"


Of course-- they own every single aspect of the game, including the sounds, art, level design, and code. Why not just be original and do everything from scratch?


Destrugter 1
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2008 00:49
Idk because I think the success of the game was because of the level designs...they are challenging and I can't think up challenging things like maps. I can think of riddles...

Eevil Weevil
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2008 19:45
Quote: "Not to use the direct image but, can I maybe change the color or something and claim it as my own?
... I can't say "all the images are mine" because some of them belong to nintendo.

"


I was just about to flame you to hell, but then I saw the word 'Nintendo' and my jugular artery snapped in half, so I'm in hospital now. £50p an hour internet accesss! YOU OWE ME Destrugter 1 !!!! Aaaaah! Cardiac arrest... eugh...

Anyways, go ahead with it...

NB: Eevil Weevil is not able to accept any responsibility for illegal actions on our behalf.

Impossible? Anything is impossible. 48'6F'77'20'64'61'72'65'20'79'6F'75'20'77'6F'72'6B'20'6F'75'74'20'6D'79'20'73'69'67'21

BatVink
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Posted: 24th Jun 2008 00:02
Quote: "Idk because I think the success of the game was because of the level designs...they are challenging and I can't think up challenging things like maps."


That's the crux of the whole debate really. Why should Nintendo give away their stuff that has taken masses of man hours to produce, to people who don't have the same talent, don't want to put in the same hours, or just want to jump on the back of somebody else's fame to increase their own fanbase?

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 24th Jun 2008 01:03
Could their tile based level layouts not be displayed as images anyhow?


I fail at life. No, really.

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