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Geek Culture / *We* are the difference between life and death....

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Yian
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 02:24
Ok people my brainwave seems to be a long one so here is my new theory (u need to know lots of science for this):
What affects our thoughts? We react to our surroundings, especially others around/near us, and so we have cause and effect:
cause-the other people
effect-you and hence your brain react to the cause(above).So,your thoughts are affected by the behaviour(or the actions) of other humans. Duh! I hear you saying and rolling your eyes...
But here is what's new in my theory:
The existence of other humans and even objects, anywhere in the universe,affects your thoughts not psychologically but physically.It also therefore affects your actions and decisions.
Now to explain...many many air molecules are bouncing aorund you in the air.They include oxygen molecules,and the amount of them that we breathe affects how clearly we think. Everbody has heard about how the countryside has fresher air which makes you think more clearly-it contains more oxygen molecules than usual city air.But things can go really miniscule-a single oxygen molecule entering your body(via breathing) may make the difference between you thinking thought A and you thinking thought B. You might say 'But you just said it makes you think more clearly, not differently', but the truth is that more clearly simply means a different,more effective thought, instead of thinking:'I wonder where that mouldy sock has got to?'. So, the fact that there are other objects than you in existence means that all the oxygen molecules are bouncing on them-this affects their arrangement in the air which consequently affects how many oxygen molecules you get to breathe in. So, if none of all those other objects including other humans were there, you would have thought different thoughts-the arrangement of oxygen molecules would have been different and so you would have breathed in a different number of them, and you would have made a different thought...'So what?Who cares?' I hear many of you saying, 'what big difference does your theory do?'. Well, for some of you I am sure it has made a difference, for other it will now:
1.We do not control our thoughts, they are completely in the hands of chance, since your thoughts depend on the number of oxygen molecules which happen to bounce into your body!Surely that changes everything, I mean it feels like being hit in the face when you are told that part of you- your thoughts, and hence your decisions depend on nothing but chance!
2.For ALL the events which occured in this world since you came into existence(physically) you are (partly)responsible, since you affect every human's thoughts and actions(as described above). This means that if you did not exist, more oxygen molecules might have entered an ill man's body, and that might well have been enough to save his life. On the other hand,the opposite might have happened. So, every death and every moment of life which other humans experience(since the beginning of your existence) can be laid at your hands.Now, perhaps you might want to look again at the title of this post...

NOTE:THIS THEORY, ALTHOUGH ALMOST CERTAIN, IS NOT 100% RECOGNISED. ACTUALLY I DONT THINK I HAVE EVER TOLD IT BEFORE EXCEPT NOW...BESIDES, I'M ONLY 16.SORRY IF IT SOUNDS ABSURD...BUT THAT'S ME.PLEASE FORGIVE...
-john D.
QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 02:36
Completely ignoring the logic that our minds become more cultured over time and we think certain ways, and certain things don't influence us at all, and that we do eventually control our thinking.

Darken the skies, we are god
http://www.DelvarWorld.com
Yian
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 02:42 Edited at: 13th Jul 2003 03:00
oops sorry it is just a theory but i believe it is true....Nobody believed Darwin at the beginning. You are refusing to accept the implications maybe...sorry if I offended

-john D.
Yian
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 02:54 Edited at: 13th Jul 2003 02:55
I knew there would be cases like this...ok Geri just treat it like a bunch of rubbish please. I would rather have u not read it rather than misunderstand it...

-john D.
IanM
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 02:57
Your two conclusions don't match - if (1) we do not control our thoughts then (2) how can we be responsible for anything that happens?

Your facts are incorrect - There is not more or less oxygen in the countryside, just different types of pollutant (I'm counting pollen here too).

Also, how can we produce any intelligent ideas (including the designing/building of the PC I'm using at the moment) if everything is as chaotic as you say?

I suspect that I can come up with lots of further reasons why your theory needs a rethink, but then, I'm feeling rather clever at the moment ... must be the high pressure weather system I'm in.
8truths
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:00
This has all been played out before. I don't mean this is a rough way, but it is going to come off like that...

There is a tendancy among young intellectuals, especially teenagers, to assume that because their limited education (especially if you went to a public school) missed a point, that that point has never been explored before.

Really, any rough edges on this sort of philosophy were filed off by European philosophers in the post-WWII era.

Plow through some Satre, Kant (tough reading, but important foundations, especially in the modern lingua franca of philosophy), Foucault, and so forth, and then dig up some of the philosophy behind chaos math. You should see some pretty interesting corrollaries and disparities among all of them.

Obviously, if you haven't, read up the Big Three Greeks, Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates.

Marx, if you like, but realize he largely just bitching.

I'm also partial to reading Hunter S. Thompson (HST does have a philosophy, to the extent that everything is out to screw you and often all you can do is screw back). HST is very fun to read, and has as much of a point as anyone who has done that much drugs and lived is going to have.

I suppose if you can manage the drivel, social responsibility theory is worth looking up.

The real fun is Chinese philosophy. There it is taking the same precepts of social responsibility and just admitting that you use them for your own good and screw everyone else.

If you're not up for it, just title Chinese philosophy "The Practical Guide to Screwing Your Friends, Getting Ahead, and Making Sure People Thank You and Smile with Pounds of Shit in Their Mouths". Easy to move on after that.

Anyone who wants to add to the list may.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Ian T
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:03
All cause and effect? No, I don't believe that. I think there is something there when we are born that wasn't caused by anything in this world, and that changes what we are thoughout our life.

On top of that, I still don't believe Darwin.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Yian
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:05
thanks for the responses people! (I liked Geri's)

-john D.
8truths
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:07
Did you know that Marx was going to dedicate Das Kapital to Darwin, and Darwin told him basically to f--- himself because Marx was an atheist?

Darwin persisted as a Christian his entire life, and like many pre-20th Century, scientists did not believe science was capable of being in opposition to God. He basically felt that his science was just taking a look at God's PDF files about life.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Yian
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:10 Edited at: 13th Jul 2003 03:21
To IanM: responible I mean physically in action, not consiously. As for my countryside fact who cares it doesn't affect the theory. Also, you can have unlimited thoughts so some thoughts are bound to be good, so you will inevitably find good thoughts as well...at other times you won't(unless u try for ages).
To 8Truths: I know a lot of biology just not everything, but I do know baout synapses and the brain and I think I said right in the 1st post...at least to an extent. Also is it true u r 80 years old?(look at ur profile)

-john D.
Ian T
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:11
'Did you know that Marx was going to dedicate Das Kapital to Darwin, and Darwin told him basically to f--- himself because Marx was an atheist?'


Who's supposed to be the hero of that tale? Me, I'd favor Marx, as he wasn't being a bast.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Solidz Snake
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:12
wtf Geri?! lmao!
u're funny sometimes dude! ehehe!

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

Solidz Snake
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:27
(reading carefully)

no dude, u didn't tell anything bad, its just funny to read ur posts

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IanM
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:34
A large portion of our thoughts result in physical action. So, someone waves their hand now and tomorrow morning I have the idea to rob a bank, just because of the random interaction of air molecules?

Ok, so we have good and bad thoughts - but even the decision that a thought is good or bad requires thought, so that thought may be bad.

"Sorry officer, it was the bad air this morning that made me do it!"

Sorry, but I don't buy your theory.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:52
ya know i couldn't really be arsed to do more than skim... however did anyone else have the word M.I.M.E. come to mind?
i'm sure someone knows what i'm talking about with that, might explain it later - but then i'd have to explain the history and its importance the Singularity

there are forces in the world which give you impression to do something, but the internal will can never be totally taken over - subsided sometimes but you would have either be a very weak minded and weak willed person else it would take some powerful drugs or hynotherapy for someone to take over the control of the subconsious.

i know its a theory but to be honest it is a bad one, we define ourselves form our surroundings and we learn from information that is passed on over and over and replicated in such a fashion. So reather than really learning we are simply intaking so that we may expand on the things we have learnt until the mime is so common places that we don't even realise it.

however at the heart of it all is the conscious and subconsious which are the two parts of a person with control ... the subconsious will react to stimulea with basic reactions and can be programmed to do more complex operations taking over the will of the higher functions ...

if you like you can thing of the Consious as C and the subconcious as ASM ... both have control and run at the same time within your computer system - now whilst it is ludicrous to say that a faulty disk or say an irregular powerflow to the monitor can cause the computers system to mulfunction itself, its not against a hack or a virus to take over through the ASM to by pass the C
and as you know ASM give you complete access to the entire system, memory - processing - periphirals.

if you take this and using an OS (a language taught to you when your younger) then you can start to install software onto your system, this software would be called a MIME ... because rather than developing all your doing is learning, but it gives you the SDK's that you need to be able to develop your own software and your own needs which can then be distributed to other systems.
with each OS (language) you learn, the bigger software base you can tap into ... and although there are alot of conversions to the more popular formats on the market, it is always good to actually understand the original as they usually loose some features in the translation

if you connect to the internet then that would be like starting a conversation with someone - now although someone can butt into the conversaion and mess up the surface, it would take a skilled person to break into your system without anyone around you noticing and making it do funny things on its own.
Saying the wind could do it, is a bit like saying that when the phoneline is bad it means your system will start to play up - but really it just means things just won't download quite so well, they might even download corrupt - everyone has days like that.
But it won't make you want to go and spam someones forum for no good reason, the only person who can make you do that is you. Well unless ofcourse your hack but as i've put it before the likeyhood of that is slim, especially with so many mental firewalls - you'd have to be running a pretty old and slow OS for someone to be able to sucessfully hack you or even get in enough to persaude your system to send a few spams out.

lol oki sorry for the analogy but it seemed like the best way for someone to understand what was gonna be said

Ian T
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 06:20
I read somewhere that 'as long as someone in the world is sad, it is impossible for anyone to achieve true happiness'. Hehe, BS... I very well may be enjoying a wonderful, quiet, normal, uninterupted weekend, and I do not believe that it is marred because a petty thief somewhere in NYC got his foot stepped on!

Seemed to relate to what we're talking about

--Mouse

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8truths
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 10:27
Quote: "Also is it true u r 80 years old?(look at ur profile)
"

God! I forgot about that!

I always post ridiculous ages on the net. I used to sign-up for stuff as a 104-yr-old, and I'd get these ads for mobility scooters and home care. Was funny as hell! Sure beats "RU Horny? Get laid tonight!" e-mails.

I'm young enough to BS here, and not yet old enough to know better (but old enough to know I should know).

Raven has a good computer analogy.

Then . . . all that means the mobo is the brain stem and the processor is the cerebellum, and the OS is the Freudian Superego?

Why not extend the analogy to the point we sort of feel short-changed by humanity?

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Mentor
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 12:47
no wonder the worlds in mess , I just figured out who wrote the OS [b]) RRRUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!


Mentor.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 14:15
lmao... just imagine signing that contract to allow him to upgrade and check your system without permission

Cash Curtis III
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 17:15
too bad i didnt bother reading that.

Johnny Darkafterlife
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 17:47
I was going to read that but I am too tired, maybe tommorow I have alot of weird things on life too.

But some other fun questions:

If you went back in time what would really happen, I mean thsi is more HOW you go back in time more what kind of property time is. Bleh it would be easyer if we could define time.

What was the universe before the big bang, I mean if it was nothing then everything would be nothing which makes EVERYTHING pointless. The whole EVERYTHING is meaningless and well its weird and hard to explain in text.

What would the world be like if time was going backwards. We would be "born" out of the grave and "die" being sucked into our mothers wombs. Broken tea cups would jump off the floor and fuze together to become normal again. We would remember the future but would forget the past. Im not going to even get into what would happen on the toilet. I would be "unwriting" this post. We would become stupider.

Thats me done, brain might break soon
Johnny Darkafterlife
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 17:59 Edited at: 13th Jul 2003 18:01
Ok I skimed your theory. If we didnt controll out thoughts then there isnt any intelegence and technically we would be artificial intellecence (as our thoughts are controlled).

Also we are a bit like out parents when we are born, in the way we think (even a child can be like there father that died before he/she was born). Also our parents shape most of the person that we are etc etc. To think of us as a computer when we are young we build up reactions on our input from the world around us. Say you burn your hand on the stove your brain now knows that the stove is bad so when you see it on you dont tuch it. Millions of these ar ein our heads and create what we do and say and..hmm this isnt like a computer at all well the human brain is too complex ill take it to something simple, a fish for instance:

breath, live
if hungry look for food
if tired sleep
mate whenever possible
look our for danger

What is food and danger is defined by the fishes experiences, the way it breaths and well lives is in the best way it can survive. These animals are built up on basic instincs that just make them survive.

A fish was easyer because we dont think it has a concience (sp?), but the question is do we have a concience? Are we just built up on millions upon milions of little subrutines like this or is there somethng else, who knows beleve what you want to beleve, but is what you beleve a reaction of what you think or something that you decided yourself.

I dont like apples so I wont eat them, you dont like apples becuase they taste bad, you tasted an apple and your brain had a bad reaction to it = So you dont like apples, did you choose to like apples?

Note: I like apples, so buy your yummy farm freash apples today.
Yian
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 22:58
let me make this clear:we DO control the range of paths the thought might follow through the synapses(gaps between the neurons in the brain), but the choice of which exact synapse the thought travels is beyond our control. My theory attempts to describe the idea that it is controlled by the amount of oxygen receceived-and oxygen does relieve the brain affecting the exact path of thought.

-john D.
8truths
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 23:29
This whole oxygen-brain-world control thing has the makings of 19th C. ether. Very Wellsvillian.

As for the OS = the upper-conscience thing, it does scare me.

Does that mean that idiot savants are Mac OS, plain confused people just tryin' to get by run Windows, and overly complex people always trying to redo their own hard-wired behaviors are Linux?

Then the overly complex people who have it together would be on what? BSD?

People who are OK, but slightly spacey and seem to be in need of an update are running BeOS.

Crackheads are obviously running first edition Win 95 with a lot of corruption on the HD. The whole thing spends an hour on scandisk before going to just the prompt.

Alcoholics are Win 98, but they can only get safe mode. All the drivers are wrong, and everything displays in 16 color. If they could just get their shit together, they be running an OK OS.

Distraught housewives have to be running Win ME. If it weren't for the restore button, they'd be screwed.

No wonder we have such a hard time networking with older folks -- they're runnin' 3.1 and DOS while we're all on XP and 2000! It's easy for us to communicate, but they have to make an effort to get into the loop.

Y'see how it all seems clearer?

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Yian
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 23:33
No. actually...!

-john D.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 23:57
Quote: "let me make this clear:we DO control the range of paths the thought might follow through the synapses(gaps between the neurons in the brain), but the choice of which exact synapse the thought travels is beyond our control. My theory attempts to describe the idea that it is controlled by the amount of oxygen receceived-and oxygen does relieve the brain affecting the exact path of thought."


our brains work just like a processor in a computer... you have sets of registers to access each area of the body.
you then have preprogrammed registers (genetic memory/unconcious operations) this will perform a set task using prescripted operation allowing you to know howto breath - blink - and such without having to be taught... you then have the learning synapses, these are like specific areas which can talk to each other like software packages that come free with the OS, only they're in a basic v1 beta form - it takes many years of learning the language to rewrite the subroutines in a form that you can then call them "bugless" or atleast a 'gold' state.

the brain doesn't work randomly, there is nothing random about it - your neurol paths determine a presise action, its the variables you use which will make them more random.
typing for example, your tapping the keys - you brain has to tell your motor center thant you need to run the muscle "tap" function, you then input the variables that determine the offset and power to place within the tap in relation to where you arm is... the subroutine runs the motor engine using the tap() and out comes an "A"
with slightly different variables you can move onto "B" and such.

this is determined by the higher function language C (Consious) but the actual function itself run in pure SC (SubConcious) which arn't random at all.
try to remember that almost 65% of the human brain is actually Hard Disk ... you then have anothe further 15% which is dedicated to Ram & PageFlip (Instance & Short Term)

just because you can't sit there and tell your hair to grow 10ft long and blue - doesn't mean that you don't have any control over it, however SC is still the lowest language in your brain, the only thing lower is NPI (Neutrol Peptide Impulse) - if you've ever coded purely in binary then you'll understand really that can only be edited on the Genetic Level which is done with set-instruction chips (DNA Strings) ... although a higher language is capable of editing DNA it is not adviced unless your the original developer as quite frankly you don't know what your dealing with, and each one has the complexity of a processor in its own right. This means any backenginnering and editing could result in total system failier.
Or odd results... like the Ram might start to randomly send data to be processed before its finished getting the entire instruction set - then someone might shout words out randomly because thats what the processor THINKs should be going on.

without some programming language and OS telling the computer what to do essentially it would sit there and keep repeating the exact same task over and over and over again.
although yeah essentially thats all a programming language does to, we program Ai so that it can then learn and grown taking random operations and doing what it believes as the right thing at that point in time based on experiences it has already had to learn and produce better Ai.

its funny but you'll find the most intelligent people are those which ALOT of life experience ... and a larger varied existance. Although you can process that someone who reads books allday and suck in knowlage is intelligent - they're only setting themselves up to produce a single take and doing it extremely well.
This doesn't make it a good computer, or particularly fantastic to work ith - however it does make it the best option when you have a certain task.

probably thats confuses everyone one hell of alot more, but its all makes alot of sense to me

Yian
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 02:27
Geri, whenever I read your posts I wonder who taught u English(Tarzan? ). When I try to see where you are from(Tazmania?) in the Location thing, you are always in 'Cyberspace'....

-john D.
Yian
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 02:46
Hmm well just a guess but I'd say some EU country...bulgarian, hungarian, polish maybe...am I too much off-track?

-john D.
Yian
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 02:54
Geri I know now-the language is Hungarian-but are you just living there or were u born there or...?

-john D.
Yian
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 03:06
the language is Hugnarian, however......I would say you live in an area near, most likely Austria.

-john D.
Yian
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 03:12
how about...A BRAND NEW CAR?

-john D.
Yian
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 03:18
ok how about u teach us some hungarian:
yes=?
no=?

-john D.
Yian
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 03:23
wait I think we need a new thread for this....I will make 1 tomorrow now time for bed...it's 2:22am

-john D.
Solidz Snake
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 04:04
Engem Snake Solidz hivnak! mee say here time 12.35am, tips ngi bon bon England kikz Hungarian azz bigtime wholatta to the moon

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

8truths
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 07:56
I'm waiting for Geri's distinctly Hungrian avatar.

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lcfcfan
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 08:29
I'm sure you will pick up plenty of english on this forum geri.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 10:01


bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 10:51
lol those are some very funny analogies raven..thoroughly enjoyed reading that

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