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Geek Culture / I have a DarkBasic Pro Vista problem and I'm tired

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Cash Curtis II
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Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 00:26
Hey,

I just got a brand new laptop, the Toshiba X205-s9810, 4gb ram, NVIDIA GeForce 8700M GT, etc. It's a beautiful monster of a computer.




How did I acquire this bad boy you ask? I just won $4000 in a poker tournament.

I said I wouldn't upgrade to Vista but now I'm eating my words. I didn't actually upgrade, this thing just comes with it. So I followed the direction on the DBP board for getting DBP working with Vista and I've had a fair amount of success. Dark Physics works, I can compile programs, etc. However, Geisha House won't run. I have an automatic error log created and here it is...

Quote: "
AI - Okay
LoadingScreen - Okay
Variable declarations - Okay
Game Effects - Okay
Loading Music - Okay
Load Textures - Okay
Pyro Setup - Okay
Load Sounds"


That's saying that it's crashing when it tries to load the sounds. I'd debug it further but I'm tired and I'm going to bed and it's quite possible that someone already knows the answer to this problem and then it wouldn't take any work from me at all.

I did just try and upgrade my sound drivers but they are up to date. I have the 'Realtek High Definition Audio'.

When I disable sounds then it crashes when it tries to load music. I'm sure it's an easy fix.

Later!


Come see the WIP!
Benjamin
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Location: France
Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 00:49
Congratulations on the win. I've just recently aquired Vista (my PC broke, and as the repair people clearly fail at repairing PCs somehow multiple components were broken and all the HDD data was lost, so they gave me a new PC with Vista on it), hopefully all will go smoothly when I install DBP and such. I wish you luck with solving your problem.

Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 01:46
Don't think this has to do with it if it compiles other projects, but did you do everything with this?
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=104612&b=1

Also, did you download the latest DBP update? If so, and you've tried everything in the compatibility thread, it looks like you'll just have to take apart your code and figure out exactly where the problem lies.


Don Malone
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 03:45
What type of audio system is it using? I did not see it listed in the specs.

Making nothing for the forth straight year; or is it five years now?

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 03:47 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2008 03:48
Quote: "I have the 'Realtek High Definition Audio'."


Snap. I have the same audio, and Windows Vista Home Premium - my laptop is new too with similar specs (Acer not Toshiba) and Dark Basic Pro 1.68 and I've not had any problems compiling sound files - though I've only tried MP3s.

To be honest I've had no problems with DBP so far - but what version of DBP were you using when compiling Geisha House previously and what version are you using now? You never know a bug could have crept in one of the updates.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 04:09 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2008 04:10
I'm using the latest update of DBP, 5.9. However, it still doesn't work if I use a previously compiled version from my XP machine which was compiled with 6.6 on my Vista laptop. Exact same thing, crash on loading sound. I even brought a copy of Geisha House to my work to test it on a Vista machine and the exact same thing happened as on my laptop, though on a desktop.

I've done a little research and found that DirectSound has totally been dropped from Vista in favor of software emulation. That makes sense with multi core systems but it doesn't make sense for the slew of hardware accelerated games in existence. Here's an example...
http://forums.tweakguides.com/showthread.php?t=5866
It seems that the issue is that the new sound API hasn't been finished yet.

However, Geisha House worked at the convention on a Vista machine, Batvink's to be exact. I have no idea what could have been different though, but that rather convincingly proves to me that there is a way to make it work. I just want GH to work on any Vista computer, not on ones with cheap hacks and workarounds. A game that works in XP should just work in Vista, but it doesn't.

Another problem is loading the MP3s. It doesn't crash, but it takes forever to do now. At this point all I'm doing is loading stuff, not playing anything.


Come see the WIP!
Don Malone
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 04:18
And I called my self looking. Maybe I should just go to bed now. By the way, that is also the sound that my (Acer) desktop PC has, and I have yet to run across a DBP app that crashes due to sound.

Making nothing for the forth straight year; or is it five years now?

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 04:21 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2008 04:24
Perhaps try upgrading/updating DirectX - anything DirectX powered I've done has been with DirectX 10 installed, so perhaps the DirectX9 compatibility there is greater under Vista. Just making guesses, but you never know direct sound problems might be fixed.


Are you running with or without the service pack?

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 04:32
Before I installed DBP I downloaded the June 08 version of DirectX 9.0c. It works, too. If it was bad then DBP 5.9 wouldn't work.

I have service pack 1. Is there anything else I should have?


Come see the WIP!
Don Malone
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 05:21
It just strikes me as odd that it is sound related instead of video related. Normally a directX issue for me revolves around video. That is why I keep thinking hardware or file path issue, but I am far from an expert.

Are your sound files located in the same directory as your program code?
Do other simple programs that you can compile work with sound?

Making nothing for the forth straight year; or is it five years now?

bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 04:29
What kind of music files are you using. Can you upload a demo file so we can test it in vista?

Try making a program that only loads and plays one of the files that are crashing, you can narrow it down.

I'm thinking it's almost certainly a codec/file format issue.


Hurray for teh logd!
tha_rami
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 11:51 Edited at: 4th Jul 2008 11:51
I've been running both DBC and DBPro on Vista Home Premium and all worked well here. I've no idea what's going wrong, though. I do know that Realtek HDA is pretty much the most common soundsystem in laptops nowadays.

In any case, congrats on your win .


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
Aaron Miller
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Playing: osu!
Posted: 5th Jul 2008 06:13
@Cash
Try moving the executable over to another partition and executing it. If you don't have an extra partition then make one. Now try copying it over to that partition and running it.
Ensure UAC is off.

Cheers,

-naota

"I used to do a lot of time travelling when I was younger. I called it 'ta-kwee-la' You would drink this potion and wake up 3 days in the future!" - Craig Ferguson
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 02:10 Edited at: 8th Jul 2008 02:46
I finally figured it out. It is the stupidest bug ever, and it isn't my bug at all. I'm afraid I'm going to blame DBP for this one.

The crash wasn't directly related to the sound, it was happening during the sound loading. The way it works is every sound is an entity based on an event. For example, the 'walk' event can have 20 sounds associated with it. When you 'playSound("walk",x,y,z,mustplay)' it picks one of those sounds and plays it. It works the same for music.

Anyway, when you engine starts up it loads every entity script file, parses it, and reads values from it. You request a value like this... 'findScriptValue$(name$)', 'findScriptValue(name$)', and 'findScriptValue#(name$)', where name$ is the variable name you are requesting the value of. If you request a value that does not exist it simply returns a 0 or a blank string. No problem, it works every time.

The exact cause of the crash was requesting a string script value that didn't exist and then asking for any string script value. When you requested a new script string value it would immediately crash, but wouldn't execute a single line of code from the function that was crashing it. It's hard to debug something when nothing is being executed. Here's the function in question...



Like I said, that works just fine under XP but it chokes in Vista, but not in a way that makes sense. But, when I changed the very last line it worked...



So passing an empty string doesn't crash the program, but causes it to crash the very next time that function is called. What the hell is this? Why would something so simple work in one OS and not another? It doesn't even actually get to the function before it crashes either. Maybe I'm just crazy and you should never return an empty string and I didn't get the memo. If I wasn't half insane I'd have never found this bug and I'd have ended up paying $50 to get Vista removed from my laptop. I guess life can go on now.

Thanks for the advice guys. Now that I've gotten past that let's see if I can make GH work for real in Vista.

[Edit]
GH does not run without crashing. But guess what, it doesn't work. Here's the game in progress...



The MP3s also take 9 years to load. Everything else is lightning fast, but it seriously takes 5 minutes to load the music alone.

I'd venture a guess that this my Nvidia 8700M GT drivers are to blame, but Nvidia doesn't have any downloadable drivers for that particular graphics card. They seem to have forgotten they sell it. I can't use the new DarkPhysics upgrade either because of this, thus I can't enter the competition. I just can't win Vista itself is a nice enough OS, but it really sucks for what I'm trying to do with it.


Come see the WIP!

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JoelJ
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 06:34
I just googled "Nvidia 8700M GT drivers" to see what came up. It looks like Nvidia is retarded, but people have found ways to make other video drivers work. I'm not sure how it works, but I don't have one of the cards, so I didn't read too into it. Check it out.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=53244
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/867631.html

[center]
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 11:44
Thanks for the link. It would seem that I'm not alone. It turns out that the 8700 is an overclocked 8600. I can probably install CUDA with a cheap hack.

I got GH to work now. The problem was 'fastsync', it just didn't work. 'sync' works fine. Now my audio is trashed - I downloaded a sound update from Toshiba in the hopes it would fix my MP3 loading issue but now nothing works.


Come see the WIP!
Chenak
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 16:12 Edited at: 8th Jul 2008 16:13
Oh. Did you upgrade to 6.9 by any chance? If so fast sync and multiple camera syncs are broke, along with many other things...

6.8 may work, since it seems to be very stable, but since you got so much code it might cause some strange problems...
JoelJ
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 18:58
That stinks about the sounds. But at least you got the rest of the game working.

I wonder if this has anything to do with it? He talks about how Windows Vista doesn't leave any extra room in it's cache so when it has to load something new, it has to make room first, thus making longer load times. Whereas XP keeps some open space.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 20:11
Always makes me smile how expensive, complicated hardware doesn't work properly and yet my £180 laptop running an Intel graphics chip, for heaven's sake, can run DB/P amoungst a lot of other things without a problem.


I fail at life. No, really.
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 9th Jul 2008 01:46
I did upgrade to 6.9 because the Vista Compatibility thread told me to

Thanks for the advice guys. This has been one huge exercise in frustration. I think that I've got GH working correctly now, I've tested every major system and nothing exploded yet (this time).

First of all, Vista pisses me off.

Secondly, the Vista Compatibility thread pisses me off. If I had the power I'd delete that thing and make my own. After I made many, many changes I found that my physics in GH no longer worked. I have every new driver and update you can think of, from Dark Physics and Nvidia. You know what? DP 1.5 doesn't work with GH. Everything hovers in the air stupidly, waiting for gravity and sanity to return, which it doesn't. I finally ended up reverting back to DBP 6.6b and Dark Physics v1 and then my physics worked again.

My music bug was caused by an old version of Torrey's Audio Plugin. I was using 1.51 and I upgraded to 1.55 and all is well. The reason I'd avoided upgrading before was because it has lots of new commands I don't use and is about 300k bigger. I'm glad it was available because I can't use the native DBP music commands. After a certain amount of memory is used the music commands make the program crash on exit. This isn't the worst thing in the entire world, but it looks like crap.

And even better - I can't reproduce those obscure bugs I've found in GH. That dumb null string returning crash? Can't reproduce it. The broken physics? Nope. I did reproduce the music loading bug, but that was solved well enough with the update so I am only a little annoyed by that.

So if you are switching to Vista, don't upgrade what you're using right now. Upgrade Torrey's Audio Plugin, but leave Dark Physics and DBP alone. They'll still work.

The only good that came of this is that Geisha House loads really really quickly. Like, 20 seconds as opposed to 1.5 minutes. It doesn't run insanely fast but I'm guessing that the performance bottleneck isn't as easy to reach now.

Now my only problem is CodeSurge. The menu system doesn't work correctly in Vista yet. Once that gets fixed I'll be in business.


Come see the WIP!
Alucard94
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Posted: 9th Jul 2008 11:19
Quote: "First of all, Vista pisses me off.
"

Welcome to the club


bitJericho
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 03:51
I thought the menu thing was solved in Codesurge? Have you updated that? I could be wrong, as I don't currently use it.


Hurray for teh logd!
Chenak
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 14:58
yep the latest version of codesurge fixes the vista menu problem
Roxas
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 15:38
Have you tried the Audio Plugin for dbpro? Its much better than dbpro inbuilt sound system. Just search audio plugin on forums.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 16:18
Well, glad things are sorted on Vista for you, personally I've not had any problems so far, but then I haven't got anything anywhere near as intense as Geisha house. But sounds like there needs to be another thread talking about other potential Vista issues users may face.

People say they're pissed off with Vista, but I've found it better than XP so far, especially XP before any of the service packs (it was a nightmare running XP for me without them) I suppose not everybody faces the same problems.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Veron
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 19:16
Quote: "People say they're pissed off with Vista, but I've found it better than XP so far, especially XP before any of the service packs (it was a nightmare running XP for me without them) I suppose not everybody faces the same problems."


With you 100% of the way, i've never encountered any problems with Vista, apart from a few large-scale applications like Flight Simulator X, and a simple service pack fixed all the problems with that.


Kohaku
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Posted: 13th Jul 2008 00:19
That endfunction "" thing took me a good while to figure out. I was originally going to report it as a bug, but as it's Vista only and I'm not really here that much anymore for reasons unknown and best undisclosed then I thought better of it.

It's the only problem I've had with Vista & DBP so far. Everything else seems OK!

Though on an unrelated note, CSS runs like crap with crutches.


You are not alone.
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 13th Jul 2008 00:32 Edited at: 13th Jul 2008 00:35
I'm using the 9 June version of CodeSurge. I've got 17 include files in Geisha House and any time I open three or more the interface stops responding any time I try to use it. Just now, for example, I tried to search for text and it froze for about 5 minutes. Then I right clicked and it got stuck again, the right click menu wouldn't go away.

I'm using Torrey's Audio plugin, the issue was I was using 1.51 instead of 1.55.

I think Vista is a good operating system. I have a good computer with plenty of RAM so everything has been pretty solid and easy to use. It's just been the hugest headache getting DBP to work for me. The real reason I got a laptop was so that I could code when I have down time at work so I'm eager to get it working.

I can open single file projects and edit them without any problem. However, that effectively shuts me down with GH. Hyrichter said he was going to update it again so I'm holding out for that. I don't want another editor to even look at Geisha House. Even when CodeSurge implodes it still doesn't lose code.

@Kohaku -
You had that problem too? I searched the forum for Vista related issues and I didn't see any references to it. I'm glad that it's just not me. I wasted a good two days finding that bug. I imagine there are other weird issues like that floating around.


Come see the WIP!
bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Jul 2008 01:08 Edited at: 13th Jul 2008 01:08
I know the old IDE works fine in vista, you may wanna switch out. Although that one has it's quirks too. Make sure you use the updated version, as the older versions are liable to make you lose source code, but I've never had it happen with the latest officially unofficial version.


Hurray for teh logd!
hyrichter
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Posted: 13th Jul 2008 02:36
Sorry about the CodeSurge issues, Cash. I should have a version up tonight in which you can just disable the XP style menus, and have them render as default Windows menus. Hopefully that will fix once and for all any problems that might occur with Vista.

CodeSurge
Version 1.0 finally released! Code your DBP projects in style. (And save the kittens!)
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 13th Jul 2008 03:28
Thanks It seems odd that I have the only version of Vista that doesn't like it. Perhaps it's just because of the size of my project. In any case, I don't know how to function without it.


Come see the WIP!
bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Jul 2008 03:30
Quote: "Perhaps it's just because of the size of my project. In any case, I don't know how to function without it."


More than likely. At least now you'll know it'll support vista when you're done


Hurray for teh logd!
hyrichter
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Posted: 13th Jul 2008 06:25
Cash, check the CodeSurge thread. I just posted an update there, and I'm praying it will fix all your Vista woes.

CodeSurge
Version 1.0 finally released! Code your DBP projects in style. (And save the kittens!)
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 00:45
Just so everybody knows, hyrichter's update does make CodeSurge Vista compatible, but in this case it's the size of the project causing it to act badly. I have like... I don't know... a zillion functions and Vista has decided that it's racist against functions.

I don't even want to tell you how I'm working on Geisha House right now. Suffice to say it's horrible and degrading I never realized it completely, but CodeSurge's code navigation systems - the Code Viewer, the search function, etc - are all really good. In other editors I'll spend minutes finding something that takes only seconds in CodeSurge.


Come see the WIP!
hyrichter
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 04:12
Cash,

Please don't totally despair. I'm going to do a major overhaul of the CodeSurge code parsing routines. You'll have your favorite IDE back soon.

CodeSurge
Version 1.0 finally released! Code your DBP projects in style. (And save the kittens!)
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 21:59
Don't worry, I'm far from despairing.

Those that buy a Geisha House CD will get an authentic seal : "Made with Codesurge and Corona". Neither one of those will change.


Come see the WIP!

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